How did the Arabs get through North Africa so fast in the 7th century

[GetInTheTruck]

what proof do you have behind this statement

and what are you defining as sophisticated? the power to dominate any invading regimes?

lol, what more proof do you need. There was nothing "wrong" with those ways of life but when stacked up against the big boys, they couldn't hang. You're trying to manufacture a history where Muslims rampaged through Africa forcing Islam on everybody, sorry but I'd rather deal with reality.

and yes, that is one feature of a sophisticated culture - to be able to withstand the sudden and massive influx of an alien culture. Look at India, as backwards seeming as many hindu customs are, muslims conquered that country and ruled it for a significant amount of time...it's still a hindu country, with a large muslim minority. That's the sign of a resilient culture. Africa has always been a mixed multitude of tribes, customs, belief systems, values, etc....never a unifying factor that could tie them all together. That's also a big reason why it was so easy for Arabs and Europeans to run up in there and get Africans to sell their own people off as slaves. They never really stood a chance.

 

[Crakface]

lol, what more proof do you need. There was nothing "wrong" with those ways of life but when stacked up against the big boys, they couldn't hang. You're trying to manufacture a history where Muslims rampaged through Africa forcing Islam on everybody, sorry but I'd rather deal with reality.

and yes, that is one feature of a sophisticated culture - to be able to withstand the sudden and massive influx of an alien culture. Look at India, as backwards seeming as many hindu customs are, muslims conquered that country and ruled it for a significant amount of time...it's still a hindu country, with a large muslim minority. That's the sign of a resilient culture. Africa has always been a mixed multitude of tribes, customs, belief systems, values, etc....never a unifying factor that could tie them all together. That's also a big reason why it was so easy for Arabs and Europeans to run up in there and get Africans to sell their own people off as slaves. They never really stood a chance.

Muslims never conquered India though. They had some territory but they never conquered that country. FYI.

 

[Crakface]

You made a definitive statement like "the berbers are not and will never be black," now after you getting pressed all of a sudden race is "relative"

What's the point of you always participating in these threads when you back down so easily?

When have you heard someone online say *i was wrong and had no idea wtf i was talking about*

 

[godkiller]

even if black is just considered a west African phenotype, most black Africans still fall within roughly the same look just like most europeans and asians....sure there are differences but are the differences any wider than you see between the Swedes and Italians......or how about the Japanese and Indonesians?

can someone really say that this Borana (Oromo) guy looks any different than a random west African in Nigeria for instance?

To me West and East Africans look roughly the same in the same way that a swede doesn't look that different than a italian.

Just so some clowns don't come in here thinking this guy is from some west african tribe, here is an article about him being named leader of the Borana in Ethiopia. http://gadaa.com/oduu/?p=538


People just like to focus on the extremes when comparing West and East Africans. Sure you got your extremely light skin and fine haired Habesha chicks but there are also light skin West Africans like the Fulani. You also have very dark skin, wide nosed, nappy hair East Africans like the Karayu Oromo of Ethiopia.

Can anyone watching this video really make an argument that these East Africans look fundamentally different than West Africans? These guys are Oromo. They have very dark skin, curly afro textured hair, wide noses.

Is anyone really gonna argue that they aren't black?

For unknown reason you posted a particularly black Oromo and according video, inferring that all Oromo look this way. This apparently isn't so. The following is a picture an Oromo immigrant family in the United States:

In the future you should post recent and group pictures of people, not isolated examples which support whatever agenda you are pushing. There are more or less black (er) people within the Oromo, just as there are more or less black (er) people within East African peoples in general. That is, there are some tribes and some individuals who are more black and less black than others. That is not to say the population at large is like them though.

 

[godkiller]

Arabs are J1 group, there are very little found in north africa, the most are in morocco which are carried by the jews oddly enough.

It is widely accepted in both african and international science community that berbers do not have a significance of arab admixture.





source: Ballais, Jean-Louis (2000) Chapter 7: Conquests and land degradation in the eastern Maghreb

There is at least one study which contradicts the assertion the J haplogroup is not found within North Africa:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1216069/

"Second, just two haplogroups predominate within North Africa, together making up almost two-thirds of the male lineages: E3b2 and J* (42% and 20%, respectively)"

"Haplogroup J reaches its highest frequencies in the Middle East (Semino et al. 2004 and references therein), "

That's 1 in 5 North Africans admixed in Arabs at the very least, and the study doesn't even fully sample the countries closer to the ME. Its probably true the Arabs didn't reach too deep into the Berber population because of how many Berbers there were and how unforgiving the Saharan climate is. More than likely the Arabs created and consolidated around epicenters which in and of themelves only drew a certain number of Berbers (at least until recently). Berbers are migratory and tribal by nature and it might be the Arabs couldn't genetically penetrate deep enough because of this tendency. The Arabs' influence might have spread primarily through religion, culture, etc which Berbers themselves might have carried out eminating from the epicter outwards (there are still people like the Beduioin who do not practice Islam and live on teh outskirts of society).

 

[Crakface]

Despite Russians have a great deal of Asian blood whites still consider them white. Oddly black people barely mixed with some arabic blood, are no longer considered blacks by cacs that want to take away their achievements.

 

[HollowPoints2]

so fast during the "Muslim" Crusade of Africa. What artillery did they use, what was their strategy?

drop that knowledge brehs

Good topic.

Now let me go back and read the responses.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

Muslims never conquered India though. They had some territory but they never conquered that country. FYI.

That conquered enough territory to where they exerted a significant amount of control but instead of being taken over outright, India just absorbed the Islamic character and made it a part of its own.

But you could say the same thing about Buddhism too. Buddhism arose from Hinduism and almost took over the country until it eventually got pushed out after a revival period. This is how advanced belief systems operate.
.
People in here just trying to create a narrative where Muslims forcibly converted Africans to Islam and made them give up their ways of life at the point of a sword

Islamic ideals were simply superior to African ideals. Let's be blunt. They had a post tribal mentality, a revolutionary and progressive outlook on human society for the time, a new and robust membership, a rich language by which to carry the movement, capable generals/military personnel....I mean, what more needs to be said...there was no need for "convert or die" because so many Africans just got with it off GP...Africa is mainly Christian or Muslim today for a reason. If Africans ever produced a written language of significance by which they could share and develop their ideas easier and possibly unite a significant portion of the continent under 1 particular ideal, maybe history would be a lot different, but that never happened.

 

[Broke Wave]

That conquered enough territory to where they exerted a significant amount of control but instead of being taken over outright, India just absorbed the Islamic character and made it a part of its own.

But you could say the same thing about Buddhism too. Buddhism arose from Hinduism and almost took over the country until it eventually got pushed out after a revival period. This is how advanced belief systems operate.
.
People in here just trying to create a narrative where Muslims forcibly converted Africans to Islam and made them give up their ways of life at the point of a sword

Islamic ideals were simply superior to African ideals. Let's be blunt. They had a post tribal mentality, a revolutionary and progressive outlook on human society for the time, a new and robust membership, a rich language by which to carry the movement, capable generals/military personnel....I mean, what more needs to be said...there was no need for "convert or die" because so many Africans just got with it off GP...Africa is mainly Christian or Muslim today for a reason. If Africans ever produced a written language of significance by which they could share and develop their ideas easier and possibly unite a significant portion of the continent under 1 particular ideal, maybe history would be a lot different, but that never happened.

... Cmon man

I'm Muslim too but what is this even about? Islam or your own racial/cultural supremacy?

 

[GetInTheTruck]

... Cmon man

I'm Muslim too but what is this even about? Islam or your own racial/cultural supremacy?

It's a fact.

Listen breh, this has nothing to do with one people being inherently superior to another, because human potential is all the same to me, but history plays out the way it does because of certain factors...what can you do.

People don't want to hear the facts though, they want to live in a fantasy world where Africans were living a superhuman like utopian existence before "cacs" and "Semitic cacs " came and subjugated them. This is just another one of those threads.

 

[J-Nice]

The Berbers were never Black and will never be Black.

What is your definition of black?

What I said was real shyt

I'll ask you again. What is your definition of black? What do you mean by " The berbers were never black?"

What does it matter?

@J-Nice

If you believe the Berbers were and are Black, state your reasons as to why that is. My definition of Blackness does not prevent you from proceeding.

I never gave my definition to Blackness, because we obviously have different definitions based on how we view the Berbers. What purpose would it serve to give my definition? There has never and will never be a universal definition of "Blackness". Race is relative. Who I consider "Black" will be different than who you consider "Black"...because we are different. I said what I had to say, you need to do the same.

You were confident enough to make such definitive and authoritative statements,and yet you can't give your own definition of blackness? It is important to know your definition of what you consider blackness to be so we can understand how you came to your conclusion that the Berbers of antiquity and the Berbers of today are anything but black Africans. I, like many others are waiting to see your response to the information that has been brought to this thread, since all of it goes against your confident premise. Here is my response once again.

Instead of looking at the Berbers through the eyes of Western categorizations, we should see the Berbers as they are. For the most part Berbers are an African people, who speak a language that is restricted to Africa, and practice a culture that is African specific. We must also keep in mind that Berbers are not one group of people. They are very diverse. The term Berber is an umbrella term that is applied to the native populations of the Sahara and North Africa.

 

[J-Nice]

Keep in mind that this Islamic "conquests" that we speak of was not a one size fits all campaign. In cases like Egypt they were welcomed because they had been under the domination and the oppression of the Byzantines. In other cases there was fierce resistance. Look up the accounts of Al Khahina. She was a warrior queen who ferociously fought the Arab conquests of her land before she was defeated.

 

[emoney]

That conquered enough territory to where they exerted a significant amount of control but instead of being taken over outright, India just absorbed the Islamic character and made it a part of its own.

But you could say the same thing about Buddhism too. Buddhism arose from Hinduism and almost took over the country until it eventually got pushed out after a revival period. This is how advanced belief systems operate.
.
People in here just trying to create a narrative where Muslims forcibly converted Africans to Islam and made them give up their ways of life at the point of a sword

Islamic ideals were simply superior to African ideals. Let's be blunt. They had a post tribal mentality, a revolutionary and progressive outlook on human society for the time, a new and robust membership, a rich language by which to carry the movement, capable generals/military personnel....I mean, what more needs to be said...there was no need for "convert or die" because so many Africans just got with it off GP...Africa is mainly Christian or Muslim today for a reason. If Africans ever produced a written language of significance by which they could share and develop their ideas easier and possibly unite a significant portion of the continent under 1 particular ideal, maybe history would be a lot different, but that never happened.

I agree with a lot of what you say about certain Africans giving up their belief systems very easily and how Arab-Islam was more sophisticated than the peoples and systems who did in fact give up their culture, history, heritage for a foreign one. African tribes who are mostly Muslim and Christian can't argue with what your saying...they unfortunately have to accept this ugly truth.

But, you should also remember that there are tribes and countries that never embraced foreign religious ideology and still have a majority of their people practicing their indigenous belief system or culture. There are many of us who haven't drank the poison.

 

[emoney]

You were confident enough to make such definitive and authoritative statements,and yet you can't give your own definition of blackness? It is important to know your definition of what you consider blackness to be so we can understand how you came to your conclusion that the Berbers of antiquity and the Berbers of today are anything but black Africans. I, like many others are waiting to see your response to the information that has been brought to this thread, since all of it goes against your confident premise. Here is my response once again.

Put forth your reasons as to why you believe Berber (Barbarians) are "Black".

You don't need me to proceed.

Your argument is not dependent on my definition.

 

[J-Nice]

Put forth your reasons as to why you believe Berber (Barbarians) are "Black".

You don't need me to proceed.

Your argument is not dependent on my definition.

You're going in circles. Just admit you don't know much on the subject and be done with it. Sit back and spectate.