History Channel Portrays Hannibal as Black, White People Cry Foul Over ‘Historical Revisionism’
- Thread starter DaRealness
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Knicksman20
Superstar
I'm still trying to find my other sources fam. Once I find some more I'll post.
Thanks.
All I am saying is that we NEED to be "cautious" about Hannibal and the Phoenicians , because they're a very tricky topic. More so than the Ancient Egyptians.
BodeineBrazy
hehehehehehehehehe
Truth be told. EVERYTHING in History is distorted. U believe what you choose to believe.
"Evidence" and "Facts" that we site on either sides of any historical argument are really skewed by whoever is filtering the information. So you have to draw your own conclusions from critical thinking.
When I hear Africa 250 something BC. nikka whooping ass and riding elephants. I'm thinking Black. White historians always place non blacks ANYWHERE NEAR ANY MOMENT OF GREATNESS. Y'all fall for this shyt everytime. Why are even debating this shyt.
50 years from now a new study can come out and say Hannibal didn't exist, Hannibal was an alien. And if they want to make that the gospel dudes will be on whatever site arguing about that.
Let's just agree to disagree.
Trust me I AGREE with most you're saying. All I'm saying is that we should be cautious with looking at Hannibal and the Phoenicians, because the topic for them is very tricky unlike with the Ancient Egyptians and hell even the Moors.
Blackqueergenius
Banned
Blackqueergenius
Banned
I think that "lighter" skin has YOU AND SOME OF THE OTHER POSTERS ON THIS THREAD CONFUSED,
eurotrash has you all brainwashed to think that 'THE TROPICAL NEGRO" STEROTYPICAL LOOK, IS THE "ONLY" LOOK FOR AFRICAN, AFRICANS ARE ALLLLLLLLL DIFFERENT DIFFERENT TOUNGES, TASTES, CLOTHES, AND YES PHENOTYPES, JUST BECAUSE CACS HAVE PUT IN YOUR HEADS LIES ABOUT THE WORLD ESPECIALLY AFRICA (miss me with that so called"pre-colonial" BULLshyt), BLACKS NEED TO TELL THERE OWN STORY, PERIOD WITHOUT ANY OUTSIDE INFLUENCE.
What the hell are you going on about? What does this have to do with what you replied to? Knock it off.
Crayola Coyote
Superstar
THIS. The Romans were not color prejudice. Even in movies like the "Gladiator" you see the Romans fighting the British and Germans because they saw them as lower people. Rome didn't fukk with Cartahge and had it in for them but conquer people and have them join their empire if they pledge allegiance to Rome. We learned this In school, idk how people act like they don't know how Rome was like.
The books were overall pretty good and gave some good information on the culture, people, and their beginnings. Not to mention they go into really good detail of the economic and political events that shaped not only Carthage but North Africa and the entire Mediterranean. Plus the source notes are also good to look at if you want to research further. I haven't seen Spartacus but I'll check it out.
We're pretty much on the same page here with the above quotes which is ironic considering that I have both the Golden Trade of the Moors in my library as well as Diodorus Siculus history volumes.
Of course you're gonna find Africans in Ibiza. Ibiza used to be a colony of Carthage and was one of their main ports in the med. Back then Ibiza was known as Ebusus and was conquered by Hamilcar (Hannibal's father) during a time where Carthage had suffered major losses during the Punic war that saw Rome take Sicily,Sardinia, and Corsica from them. But what is also fascinating about Ebusus is that Hamilcar's son in law Hasdrubal encouraged marriage between Carthaginians and Iberians.
Hannibal Barca - Livius
Let me clarify, I don't mind speculation and people presenting evidence. But I've seen enough of these conversations to know that when people talk about Hannibal's appearance they do so with zero context, zero knowledge of the culture and people, and zero knowledge of the time period and it results in spewing some eurocentric garbage or the usual "he ain't black cuz north Africans ain't black" shyt that's found all over the web (Which is happening in this thread at the moment). That's what I didn't want to see. I know that isn't your intention or mine but I can't say for others. I think he resembled the local population. But it's difficult without sources. And all of the sources pertaining to this period are Greco-Roman. Now back to regular scheduled programming.
I think there is a case to be made that people are over-estimating the amount of non-african immigrants flowing into Carthage apart from the Phoenicians themselves;especially during this time period. When the Phoenicians founded Carthage, it was estimated that only a few hundred settlers lived there.
General History of Africa, II Ancient Civilizations of Africa, James Currey, p.247
Libyans and Numidians made up the bulk of Carthage's armies. But Carthage also employed mercenaries from places like Gaul,Spain, and Britain. So it isn't outside the realm of possibility that these soldiers permanently settled in the city. After all, Carthage was a metropolitan area that drew people from all over looking for economic opportunity. How many were there? No one really knows. But there were skeletal remains found of soldiers in the Carthaginian army.
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No one can deny that there was a significant non-African population in Carthage. Diodorous Siculous mentions 4 races- the native Carthaginians (Afri), the Phoenicians, Libyans, and the mixed Libyan-Phoenicians. I just don't believe they were that significant to change the entire population. Out of the 4 races Siculous describes, Hannibal could range from dark skin to very light much like the local population.
"The scene, which is based on Livy's account of the second Punic War in his History of Rome (XXX, 33, 4-16), depicts the last battle pitting Scipio and the Roman army against the Carthaginians. Elephants in the Carthaginian army's front lines are charging the Romans, toppling men and horses. On the left, an elephant startled by the blare of a trumpet and a horn turns on its own camp. In the foreground, Scipio, wearing a starry blue mantle, leads his men, urging them to push back the enemy with swords and javelins.The border along the sides and lower edge features a broad garland of flowers, fruits, small animals, and frolicking children. The upper part consists of an architrave, probably to comply with the dimensions requested by the first patron to commission a tapestry on this theme, the Maréchal de Saint-André, whose arms grace the upper corners."
I don't know why all his men are white/European.
And can you post some of the writings of Mago? That would be interesting.
It's interesting how he is depicted as black but his army is white as snow. Probably some iconography going on. As for Mago, you're gonna have to go to a library and read them unfortunately. His books were translated by Cassius Dionysius into volumes called De Agricultura . My local library has English translations.
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Sorry for the late reply.
Interesting.
http://www.thecoli.com/threads/the-levant-an-extension-of-africa-lets-take-a-look-shall-we.255052/
I mean the Levant shares the same tectonic plates as Africa! But still there are hardly any sources describing Hannibal's characteristics.
But maybe you can answer this question since @Hiphoplives4eva didn't respond to it yet. He said that one of the Hannibal statues is a fake. I think he is referring to this...
^^Do you have a source that says that? Been looking.
And actually supports the argument big time that the original Phoenician settlers were absorbed by the indigenous population.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/asset?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0155046.PDF
I don't know why they call the man a Phoenician when he is in fact from Byrsa. And Haplogroups only tell "ancestry" and not the whole puzzle which would be an autosomal test. We don't even know his Y-DNA, which could POSSIBLY be African E-M81 which most Northwest African males today(even the most pale ones) carry. That's like saying since some AAs carry European R1b in their Y-DNA they are now European... We DON'T have the full puzzle... Now if they did some DNA testings on those "negroid" Carthaginian remains(that were even elites) that we posted, then we know what answer we would get a different answer...
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That sucks. So its only primary sources?
So in the book do they go in depth about Hannibal's race? Or how classical authors described him.
Interesting.
Yeah, I agree that many people and not just Euronuts believe that North Africa has always been an extension of Europe and the Middle East. When it can it can be argued that the Levant,where the Phoenicians are said to come from mind you, is an extension of Africa.
http://www.thecoli.com/threads/the-levant-an-extension-of-africa-lets-take-a-look-shall-we.255052/
I mean the Levant shares the same tectonic plates as Africa! But still there are hardly any sources describing Hannibal's characteristics.
But maybe you can answer this question since @Hiphoplives4eva didn't respond to it yet. He said that one of the Hannibal statues is a fake. I think he is referring to this...
^^Do you have a source that says that? Been looking.
WOW! This is pretty damn good.
And actually supports the argument big time that the original Phoenician settlers were absorbed by the indigenous population.
Recently there was a study that showed one Carthaginian male carried a European mtdna U5b2c1.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/asset?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0155046.PDF
I don't know why they call the man a Phoenician when he is in fact from Byrsa. And Haplogroups only tell "ancestry" and not the whole puzzle which would be an autosomal test. We don't even know his Y-DNA, which could POSSIBLY be African E-M81 which most Northwest African males today(even the most pale ones) carry. That's like saying since some AAs carry European R1b in their Y-DNA they are now European... We DON'T have the full puzzle... Now if they did some DNA testings on those "negroid" Carthaginian remains(that were even elites) that we posted, then we know what answer we would get a different answer...
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Interesting.
That sucks. So its only primary sources?
Unfortunately,no. I've been combing sources for years trying to find an authentic description on Hannibal and I haven't had any luck.
Interesting.
Interesting. I'll take a look at that thread and contribute some material. Africa and the levant have always been connected. Egypt and Axum had an influence on the area. Not to mention people have been traveling and settling in that area for thousands of years. Many of them still retained their "Africaness" so to speak.
But maybe you can answer this question since @Hiphoplives4eva didn't respond to it yet. He said that one of the Hannibal statues is a fake. I think he is referring to this...
^^Do you have a source that says that? Been looking.
That's one of the busts found in Capua Italy. I read somewhere that it may be him later on in life but it may be unauthentic since there aren't any credible sources of his appearance anywhere. I'll have to find the article I read that in and link it to you. A few years ago, there were supposed busts of his family floating around but they're in a private collection and the pics have disappeared from the net. I'll take a look and see what I can find.
WOW! This is pretty damn good.
And actually supports the argument big time that the original Phoenician settlers were absorbed by the indigenous population.
Those are my thought's exactly. There was continued migration throughout the life of Carthage, but it wasn't in great numbers. Also it isn't out of the realm of possibility that those migrants were noble families and wealthy aristocrats that contributed to the amount of wealth that Carthage possessed.
For all we know, this one guy could have been part of that immigrant class that made it's way to Carthage during it's height like alot of people did. He could have been a slave. He could've been anything. But you already know the agenda when it comes to North Africa,especially when you have people hailing the "Mediterranean race" model as if these people aren't a mix of African and Southwest Asian. I'll be waiting on those studies for sure.
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Unfortunately, yes. Mago's story is kind of boring and uninteresting compared to Hannibal's and the backdrop of the Punic wars. When Carthage was destroyed, they gave their library to the Numidians but took Mago's work back to Rome where they translated it into Greek and Latin. It was vital to them in improving their farming techniques, trade deals, and their food preparation. Mago is one of the reasons why the Romans were hailed for their food , trade, and agricultural structure. And that is a big part of the reason why Carthage was so wealthy.
lightbearerchef
Von!!!
Are there any books on Brotha Hannibal?