History Channel Portrays Hannibal as Black, White People Cry Foul Over ‘Historical Revisionism’

[Bawon Samedi]

Juvenal wrote about preferences for fairer [read pure white] appearances. Messalina and Caracalla both wore Blonde wigs in order to appear more noble.
Nobility putting on blonde wigs to be more accepted. Go figure.

I have not heard anywhere of blond wigs representing something of nobility. They were just spoils of war and something "exotic" to them especially the women. Yet again why the heck would that mean they would lie about Hannibal's race? More importantly I see you yet again ignored an example of Rome considering the more pale skinned northerners inferior. Here's another example:

“They are the most ignorant people I have ever conquered. They cannot be taught music.” Cicero, in writing to his friend Atticus, advised him not to buy slaves in England, “because,” said he, “they cannot be taught to read, and are the ugliest and most stupid race I ever saw."

Cicero: The Britons Are too Stupid to Make Good Slaves

You never read up on them saying anything like this about the black Egyptians, Nubians, Carthaginians or Garamantes.

Again why wouldn't Rome lie about race...and this has implications beyond 250 BC.

Being equal opportunity fukkers and enslavers doesn't mean that the Romans weren't history revisionists (at any stage in history); especially against a millitary thorn in their side.

Still no example of the Romans lying about the background of the groups they conquered...

This is getting boring.

fukk out of here with your faux elitist "fetch us an example" "layman" and "never studied history" bullshyt. Who the fukk is us? What kind of homphillic shyt is that?

Don't drench your posts with ad hominem malarkey and expect me to respond to your shyt.

Instead of talking shyt and whining, how about you remember that it was YOU who replied to me and jumped in the conversation with me and @Knicksman20 were having that never even concerned you. So how about YOU stop replying to me, since again you keep repeating the same stuff.

And yes I'm going to KEEP asking you to fetch me an example, because 1 you're the one who jumped in the conversation and 2 you're the one making the bold claim that the Romans would for some strange reason lie about Hannibal's race.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Ironic this made it to the roots. Got too many cacs mad.

It was actually me. There was no crazy conspracy for why it was moved here. There was already a longer and already featured thread here. I moved the other one here and merged them. Plus I moved it here, because it fits the definition of the Root.

How about people stop being afraid of the Root and help contribute. Being afraid of it actually makes it dead. By featuring threads, I at least made the Root a bit more active.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

First post on the coli this year (the root no less) and it's filled with nothing but garbage speculation with no context. I sometimes cringe reading history threads on this site when most of the people posting have never done credible research on the given subject and they come off looking stupid and misinformed( like most of you dumbasses in this thread).

Hannibal being descended from the Phoenicians doesn't make him any less African. He was pure Punic Carthaginian. By Hannibal's time the founders of Khart Haddas were absorbed into the local African population. But also keep in mind that Carthage was not only a naval power but they were also a cosmopolitan state with advanced infrastructure that posed a major threat to Rome who wanted to control trade in the Mediterranean. To get an idea of who the original population were, research the Afer people. They are the original inhabitants of Carthage. Even though most literature about Carthage is lost through Rome destroying it and the Numidians taking it, the writings of Mago still survive.

And before people ask what books have I read, here are some below:

I have to check these books out. How good are they? NO ONE is denying that Carthage was mostly indigenous African and that the Numidians were black/African. I think even Euronuts know this. Hell they depicted the native black population of Carthage as black in the TV show Spartacus.

But then we have this...

THE PRESENCE OF AFRICAN INDIVIDUALS IN PUNIC POPULATIONS FROM THE ISLAND OF IBIZA (SPAIN): CONTRIBUTIONS FROM PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY

Nicholas Márquez-Grant*

ABSTRACT: The origin of the Punic population of Ibiza has been a much debated issue, not only in the field of anthropology, but in archaeology as well. The establishment of rural settlements and the apparent demographic growth throughout the island, especially from the 4th century BC onwards, has been mainly recognised as the result of a colonization process involving a large-scale immigration of people. The material culture from this period seems to indicate that the probable origin of these immigrants was the area of the Central Mediterranean, especially Carthage. This paper compares measurements from Ibizan skulls dating from between the sixth and second centuries BC with craniometric data from modern American populations by employing the forensic discriminant functions of the FORDISC 2.0 (Ousley and Jantz, 1996) computer program. In spite of the method’s limitations, the results seem to suggest the presence of several individuals of North African and sub-Saharan ancestry in Punic Ibiza.

To what extent Carthaginians employed Negro slaves is doubtful. Punic cemeteries have yielded numerous skulls of a negroid character, and there were some very dark-skinned Africans, perhaps negroes, in the Carthaginian army which invaded Sicily early in the fifth century B.C. Frontinus tells us that as prisoners they were paraded naked before the Greeks soldiery in order to bring the Carthaginians into contempt. On the other hand, as the Carthaginians customarily enslaved prisoners of war and the victims of their piracy, two sources of supply which they must have found very fruitful, they were far from being dependent on Africa for slave labour. It is unlikely that they hesitated to enslaved as many Berbers as they required, nor were so brutal a people likely to have drawn the line at doing the same to their own peasantry. The evidence of negro blood, is, however, significant and it seems probable that they imported slaves from the Fezzan. It was a likely source, for the Garamantes cannot have hunted the Troglodyte Ethiopians except to enslave them. The slave trade with the Fezzan may have been important to the Carthaginians, but there are no grounds for assuming that it was.

The golden trade of the Moors: West African kingdoms in the fourteenth century
By E. W. Bovill, Robin Hallet
pp. 21-22

In the Punic burial grounds, negroid remains were not rare and there were black auxiliaries in the Carthaginian army who were certainly not Nilotics. Furthermore, if we are to believe Diodorus(XX, 57.5), a lieutenant of Agathocles in northern Tuninisa at the close of the fourth century before our era overcame a people who skin was similar to the Ethiopian'. There is much evidence of the presence of 'Ethiopians' on the southern borders of Africa Minor. Throughout the classical period, mention is also made of peoples belonging to intermediate races, the Melano-Getules, or Leuco-Ethiopians in particular in Ptolemy.

General History of Africa: Ancient civilizations of Africa By G. Mokhtar, Unesco. International Scientific Committee for the Drafting of a General History of Africa
p. 427

We also have the fact that the Phoneticians were so influenced by the Ancient Egyptians that they worshipped the god "Bes" who traces his origins to central Africa.


Diodorus Siculus (Book V. 16), writing in the 1st century BC, stated that Ibiza con- sisted of people from a variety of nationalities. Considering other Punic enclaves, human skeletal remains from Carthage, in North Africa, seem to indicate that there is no clear ethnic unity (Charles-Picard and Charles-Picard, 1958: 129), while epitaphs reveal the possi- ble presence of individuals of Cypriotic and Phoenician origins (Benichou-Safar, 1982: 184). According to historical sources, the spreading of Punic settlements in western Sardinia since the 4th century BC is associated with peasant and slave immigration from North Africa (van Dommelen, 1997: 313, citing Bondì, 1987: 181). In antiquity, slaves were obtained from areas in the Mediterranean as well as northern Europe (Thompson, 2003: 3-4). In ancient Greece and Rome, some members of society came from sub- Saharan Africa (see Snowden, 1970). In later periods, between the 5th and 8th centuries AD, the Iberian Peninsula and the Balearic Islands also received merchants from the Eastern and Central Mediterranean (García, 1972).

Mediaeval Ibiza has shown similar metric characteristics to mandibles from European Caucasoid, North African and sub-Saharan individuals (Gómez, 1989). Turning to Punic Ibiza, the material culture imported from around 600 BC onwards derives from the Central Mediterranean area. For this reason, it has been suggested that immigrants, especially from Sicily, Sardinia and Carthage, may have been present in Ibiza (Costa and Gómez, 1987: 53; Guerrero, 1997: 240, 248). Moreover, the administration in an urban centre was likely to have high status representatives from Carthage (Guerrero, 1997: 249). This link with North Africa also seems reasonable due to the presence in Ibiza of ostrich eggs (see Astruc, 1957), Egyptian scarabs (see Blázquez, 1967; Fernández and Padró, 1982), possibly the present-day Ibizan hound or ‘ca eivissenc’ (see Pedro, 1996; Cesarino, 1997: 98) and perhaps architecture (see Díes and Matamoros, 1989). Also, the presence of African individuals may be identified in artefacts such as terracotta figurines (see San Nicolás, 1987). Images of individuals with sub-Saharan physical features do seem to appear in earlier scarabs from Phoenician Ibiza (see Boardman, 2003). Finally, it is also worth noting that the name ‘Ibiza’derives from a Phoenician-Punic word linked to god Bes (Solá, 1956; Tarradell and Font, 1975: 232-233). This god has been represented in many of Ibiza’s Punic artefacts such as coins (see Planas et al., 1989). This deity, originally from the Egyptian pantheon, seems to have its roots in Equatorial Africa (Padró, 1978; Planas et al., 1989: 11). He served the main gods and was considered the protector of birth, sleep, love, marriage, childbirth and sexuality (Fernández, 1996). This evidence,8 however, only indicates an association with North Africa, mainly in terms of economy and culture.

We know for a fact that the indigenous population of Carthage was BLACK. But the fact is the problem lies with Hannibal HIMSELF. All we're saying(at least me that is) is that there is no physical remains of Carthage and most primary classical sources describing him are gone. Not only that while the bulk of Carthage was African, there were many non-African types such as those from Europe and thats a fact. So I don't get how being concerned about the true race of Hannibal is "speculation" when there is no remains of him or hardly any classical sources detailing him. Not only that many outsiders depict him in various ways. But I'll admit that I came across this online. A more later European depiction of Hannibal, but as black.

"The scene, which is based on Livy's account of the second Punic War in his History of Rome (XXX, 33, 4-16), depicts the last battle pitting Scipio and the Roman army against the Carthaginians. Elephants in the Carthaginian army's front lines are charging the Romans, toppling men and horses. On the left, an elephant startled by the blare of a trumpet and a horn turns on its own camp. In the foreground, Scipio, wearing a starry blue mantle, leads his men, urging them to push back the enemy with swords and javelins.The border along the sides and lower edge features a broad garland of flowers, fruits, small animals, and frolicking children. The upper part consists of an architrave, probably to comply with the dimensions requested by the first patron to commission a tapestry on this theme, the Maréchal de Saint-André, whose arms grace the upper corners."

I don't know why all his men are white/European.

And can you post some of the writings of Mago? That would be interesting.

 

[Londilon]

It was actually me. There was no crazy conspracy for why it was moved here. There was already a longer and already featured thread here. I moved the other one here and merged them. Plus I moved it here, because it fits the definition of the Root.

How about people stop being afraid of the Root and help contribute. Being afraid of it actually makes it dead. By featuring threads, I at least made the Root a bit more active.

I hear you and I can't change anything about it.

Yet that doesn't mean that I won't feel that hiding topics that deal with Black history and current black life racial issues into a non-popular forum as a way to not upset the majority is weak when this website benefits from the discussion of black culture.

 

[Crayola Coyote]

That is a reach, phoenians were known for their trading. Look I'm all for him being black but I haven't seen much evidence other that small stuff that points to him being white,black,mixed raced etc. the white people are mad and saying its" revolutionist history" are wrong cause their is not much on him being white either so they can have several seats.

You forgot the "Carthage massarce" the Romans burned cartage to the ground and built it back up in their own image.

 

[Crayola Coyote]

I have to check these books out. How good are they? NO ONE is denying that Carthage was mostly indigenous African and that the Numidians were black/African. I think even Euronuts know this. Hell they depicted the native black population of Carthage as black in the TV show Spartacus.

But then we have this...

THE PRESENCE OF AFRICAN INDIVIDUALS IN PUNIC POPULATIONS FROM THE ISLAND OF IBIZA (SPAIN): CONTRIBUTIONS FROM PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY

Nicholas Márquez-Grant*



The golden trade of the Moors: West African kingdoms in the fourteenth century
By E. W. Bovill, Robin Hallet
pp. 21-22



General History of Africa: Ancient civilizations of Africa By G. Mokhtar, Unesco. International Scientific Committee for the Drafting of a General History of Africa
p. 427

We also have the fact that the Phoneticians were so influenced by the Ancient Egyptians that they worshipped the god "Bes" who traces his origins to central Africa.


Diodorus Siculus (Book V. 16), writing in the 1st century BC, stated that Ibiza con- sisted of people from a variety of nationalities. Considering other Punic enclaves, human skeletal remains from Carthage, in North Africa, seem to indicate that there is no clear ethnic unity (Charles-Picard and Charles-Picard, 1958: 129), while epitaphs reveal the possi- ble presence of individuals of Cypriotic and Phoenician origins (Benichou-Safar, 1982: 184). According to historical sources, the spreading of Punic settlements in western Sardinia since the 4th century BC is associated with peasant and slave immigration from North Africa (van Dommelen, 1997: 313, citing Bondì, 1987: 181). In antiquity, slaves were obtained from areas in the Mediterranean as well as northern Europe (Thompson, 2003: 3-4). In ancient Greece and Rome, some members of society came from sub- Saharan Africa (see Snowden, 1970). In later periods, between the 5th and 8th centuries AD, the Iberian Peninsula and the Balearic Islands also received merchants from the Eastern and Central Mediterranean (García, 1972).

Mediaeval Ibiza has shown similar metric characteristics to mandibles from European Caucasoid, North African and sub-Saharan individuals (Gómez, 1989). Turning to Punic Ibiza, the material culture imported from around 600 BC onwards derives from the Central Mediterranean area. For this reason, it has been suggested that immigrants, especially from Sicily, Sardinia and Carthage, may have been present in Ibiza (Costa and Gómez, 1987: 53; Guerrero, 1997: 240, 248). Moreover, the administration in an urban centre was likely to have high status representatives from Carthage (Guerrero, 1997: 249). This link with North Africa also seems reasonable due to the presence in Ibiza of ostrich eggs (see Astruc, 1957), Egyptian scarabs (see Blázquez, 1967; Fernández and Padró, 1982), possibly the present-day Ibizan hound or ‘ca eivissenc’ (see Pedro, 1996; Cesarino, 1997: 98) and perhaps architecture (see Díes and Matamoros, 1989). Also, the presence of African individuals may be identified in artefacts such as terracotta figurines (see San Nicolás, 1987). Images of individuals with sub-Saharan physical features do seem to appear in earlier scarabs from Phoenician Ibiza (see Boardman, 2003). Finally, it is also worth noting that the name ‘Ibiza’derives from a Phoenician-Punic word linked to god Bes (Solá, 1956; Tarradell and Font, 1975: 232-233). This god has been represented in many of Ibiza’s Punic artefacts such as coins (see Planas et al., 1989). This deity, originally from the Egyptian pantheon, seems to have its roots in Equatorial Africa (Padró, 1978; Planas et al., 1989: 11). He served the main gods and was considered the protector of birth, sleep, love, marriage, childbirth and sexuality (Fernández, 1996). This evidence,8 however, only indicates an association with North Africa, mainly in terms of economy and culture.

We know for a fact that the indigenous population of Carthage was BLACK. But the fact is the problem lies with Hannibal HIMSELF. All we're saying(at least me that is) is that there is no physical remains of Carthage and most primary classical sources describing him are gone. Not only that while the bulk of Carthage was African, there were many non-African types such as those from Europe and thats a fact. So I don't get how being concerned about the true race of Hannibal is "speculation" when there is no remains of him or hardly any classical sources detailing him. Not only that many outsiders depict him in various ways. But I'll admit that I came across this online. A more later European depiction of Hannibal, but as black.

"The scene, which is based on Livy's account of the second Punic War in his History of Rome (XXX, 33, 4-16), depicts the last battle pitting Scipio and the Roman army against the Carthaginians. Elephants in the Carthaginian army's front lines are charging the Romans, toppling men and horses. On the left, an elephant startled by the blare of a trumpet and a horn turns on its own camp. In the foreground, Scipio, wearing a starry blue mantle, leads his men, urging them to push back the enemy with swords and javelins.The border along the sides and lower edge features a broad garland of flowers, fruits, small animals, and frolicking children. The upper part consists of an architrave, probably to comply with the dimensions requested by the first patron to commission a tapestry on this theme, the Maréchal de Saint-André, whose arms grace the upper corners."



And can you post some of the writings of Mago? That would be interesting.

Damn I'm not good at bolding sentences on this site yet. But the part were you say why is Hannibal black with a bunch of white me around you are on to something. I think when ad on point we have power to control them.

 

[Crayola Coyote]

Eh... Hannibal supposedly felt disrespected after the first Punic war when Rome claimed and/or made the following territories pay high tributes: Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica.

Then Carthiginians took over Hispania (Spain) from the Romans which set off the Second Punic War. Wasn't exactly a case of peace loving individuals (Carthaginians) being victimized by the absolutely brutal side (Romans). Though, without a doubt after the end of the Second Punic War, Rome was incredibly brutal and made sure that Carthage never existed again.

THIS. Cac are a war people

 

[Crayola Coyote]

The Romans did that to EVERY group the conquered and yet the still did NOT lie about their ethnicity for black. Explain... And if you're thinking it has something to do with white supremacy then your wrong, because the concept of white supremacy did not exist at that time. The Romans actually considered their northern more paler skinned brethens as inferior while they saw Africans like the Garamentes, Nubians, Egyptians and Numidians as not only as superior as those northern Europeans, but they also willingly let those Africans assist them in battling those "inferior northerners." In fact I have recently read that the Romans thought of darker skinned people(including themselves) as smarter while those who were much paler like those more north as "slow minded."

So again what point would the Romans have to LIE about Barca's ethnicity??? The Romans were CLEAR in describing their enemies races. Hell they weren't even like the Ancient Egyptians who in fact made up lies or airbrushed away their defeats.

THIS. Romans said that the Anglos (Brits) were too stupid that they would be worthless to be slaves. I read it somewhere but you can google it. Romans hates Germans and Brits with a passion.

 

[Crayola Coyote]

Interesting tidbit. The kid on the left with his face scratched out is Septimius Severus son Geta. The one the right is Caracallla. When Septimius was on his deathbed he told his sons to work together to rule the empire. After Septimius died, Caracalla killed his brother and had his memory "condemned from memory" which literally means erasing someone from memory and history . They scratch out and remove the person from all public buildings, documents, art, and currency. Caracalla was eventually assassinated.


Damnatio memoriae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Damn! Roman culture interesting as hell. They deleting ppl outta history so we don't even know what color they are!! Yo! Y'all wouldn't think the world was gonna run on skin complexion, Romans!!

 

[Crayola Coyote]

How is it we know the races of pretty much every smallfry from ancient times but one of the most prolific military generals in history who earned the respect of nations and kings is "up for debate"?

Hannibal of all people don't got some detailed descriptions? Or maybe all recordings were 'lost' by white supremacist historians

"Up for debate" means he is black just like "let's wait for evidence" knowing the actions of whites on blacks is wrong and need Justice. They know, white ppl know..

 

[blackzeus]

Because cacs that have no interaction with Elephants decide to go shopping in Africa and have the know-how to train and take care of elephants for the soul purpose to have them fight in a war when they have never used Elephants for war before. Ok dumb cac, I bet it makes you mad that your word aint gold anymore. So mad that he can't say shyt on the fly and people won't question it.

Yall the same insecure cacs that broke the noses off all the statues in Egypt to try and hide that the Egyptians were black

Breh the fact that people are DEBATING this is a joke! Just wait until they make a movie about Moorish Iberia and blacks having white slaves, white people finna become the new terrorists and blow up theaters and sh*t

 

[Crayola Coyote]

They removed the black 1s?

Many of those coins are outright frauds, remade in modern time or during the renaissance period. Its like all the original black history is barried and hidden with the fake white overlay.[/QUOTE]

You can tell them hoes are fake.

 

[Crayola Coyote]

mfs are pathetic

They are weird as fukk

 

[Crayola Coyote]

Breh the fact that people are DEBATING this is a joke! Just wait until they make a movie about Moorish Iberia and blacks having white slaves, white people finna become the new terrorists and blow up theaters and sh*t

I wouldn't be surprised they would make a movie like that to justify white supreamcy on black folks.. Ain't surprised they haven't done it yet..

 

[Grizzly]

they got some nerve