Hip Hop was the 1st time in America where stereotypes of Blackfolks were self inflicted

[Wear My Dawg's Hat]

The Hip Hop era is the first time in American history when a large number of young black people
(mostly male) had such an impact on marketing their lifestyles to the general public.

This was unprecedented. This did not happen during the Micheaux period, or during the Motown or
Philadelphia International and Stax periods. That was all random and isolated. This was a cluster burst
of young black music ownership.

More ownership meant more control of what messaging and images were expressed, for better
or worse. Unfortunately, this "freedom of ownership" coincided with the growth of gangs, guns, drugs and stripper culture in our communities. One fed off the other.

The "Keep It Real" movement of the early to mid 90s drove the industry to represent what was
on the streets rather than romance (Whodini), politics (Public Enemy, X-Clan) or humor (Fat Boys,
Biz Markie).

Many of these companies battled with their white distribution partners over content
control. Time Warner ended its deal with Interscope over their partnership with Death Row
during their battle over content with C. Delores Tucker, William Bennett and Senator Joseph
Lieberman.

White cultural filters enter Hip Hop through The Source, MTV, and Hot 97, making Keep It Real glock 9mm
street culture mainstream and acceptable to everybody.

Sugarhill Records - Black owned

Enjoy Records - Black owned

Luke Skyywalker Records - Black owned

Ruthless Records - Black owned

Uptown Records - Black owned

Bad Boy Entertainment - Black owned

Death Row Records - Black owned

Cold Chillin Records - Black co-owned

Rap-A-Lot Records - Black owned

No Limit Entertainment - Black owned

Def Jam Records - Black co-owned

Roc-A-Fella Records - Black owned

Forty Acres and a Mule Filmworks - Black owned

LaFace Records - Black owned

Slip N Slide Records - Black owned

 

[Higher Tech]

Where's the revolution they were stressing circa 2000-2004??

Soulja Boy and Chris Brown wanna be down with the Bloods not The Peoples Army. Aint nobody out here like that waving red, black and green flags like they are with red or blue rags.

In 2003 Dead Prez made it seem like they were about to start a movement involving Bill Cosby, Micheal Jordon, Michael Jackson, magic johnson and Oprah putting up money for a Black hospital and Fred Hampton Jr would be somewhere in the mix.
They were also on that cop killer shyt.
All that shyt sounded good on wax but it never materialized.


They were studio revolutionarys. They had material that was dope but are so low key its like they dont want the fame..... how can u start a low key revolution?....Like when is the green light gonna pop off for this revolution being that ya'll been mia for so long? What are the updates of this revolution? I hear people mention Lil B and Joe Budden way more then I hear people mention any updates concerning Dead Prez.

The "revolution" talk was a marketing gimmick. And it worked cuz like I said it sounded good on wax. But none of that talk materialized.

I don't agree with that. They did stuff in their neighborhoods and tried to get other people to follow suit. But to each his own.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

But was "the grand transcontinental tour" black owned and run? u keep destroying your claims with your own evidence. U keep using white platforms to get your point across....Hip Hop wasn't created for a white audience. Who allowed such a tour during that time? Ask yourself that question. You cant compare a white audience appoved and demand in the late 1800's to an artform started by Black people for Black people in the 1970's. They dont mix and u trying to mix them is you reaching.

stop it....ernest wrote hogan wrote and performed the song on his own accord:

Hogan's use of the racial slur "c00n" in the song infuriated many African Americans. Some Black performers made a point of removing the word "c00n" from the song whenever they sang it.[7] In addition, the success of this song created many imitations, which became known as "c00n songs" because of their use of extremely racist and stereotypical images of blacks. In Hogan's later years he evidently felt shame and a sense of "race betrayal" for the song.[6]

The controversy over the song has, to some degree, caused Hogan to be overlooked as one of the originators of ragtime, which has been called the first truly American musical genre. Hogan's songs were among the first published ragtime songs and the first to use the term "rag" in their sheet music copy. While Hogan made no claims to having exclusively created ragtime, fellow Black musician Tom Fletcher said Hogan was the "first to put on paper the kind of rhythm that was being played by non-reading musicians."[6] When the ragtime championship was held as part of the 1900 World Competition in New York, semifinalists played Hogan's "All c00ns Look Alike to Me" to prove their skill.[9]

As Hogan said shortly before he died,

(That) song caused a lot of trouble in and out of show business, but it was also good for show business because at the time money was short in all walks of life. With the publication of that song, a new musical rhythm was given to the people. Its popularity grew and it sold like wildfire... That one song opened the way for a lot of colored and white songwriters. Finding the rhythm so great, they stuck to it ... and now you get hit songs without the word 'c00n.' Ragtime was the rhythm played in backrooms and cafes and such places. The ragtime players were the boys who played just by ear their own creations of music which would have been lost to the world if I had not put it on paper."[8]

it's the epitome of self inflicted harm

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Even tho u went off topic and never responded when I responded to your article about Bert Williams I'll play along and still respond to you even tho u ignored me.

OK Lets talk about this info u have posted concerning Blacks c00ning for Black audiences.

Yet again, your own evidence destroys your own argument.

This is what u posted;

African-American blackface productions also contained buffoonery and comedy, by way of self-parody. In the early days of African-American involvement in theatrical performance, blacks could not perform without blackface makeup, regardless of how dark-skinned they were.


That is what u posted.


So the next question asked would be......who didn't allow Black actors to not wear black face?


was it Black people??

that part was clearly referring to the early days on the white circuit and not the black one

Black Vaudeville was based on performances that came out of the movement and style of African Americans. The vaudeville years were the early 1880s until the early 1930. These acts were unique on the vaudeville scene because the performers brought in different experience that the white performers could not convey. Although African-American performers were mistreated, a Vaudeville gig was better than being a maid or farm worker. Vaudeville had what they called circuits to keep the show business at the time organized. It was difficult for a black performer to be accepted into the white circuit due to the racial issues of the time. Eventually, black circuits were created to give black performers more opportunities. Black Vaudeville made it possible for African Americans to enjoy entertainment through their own heritage.

You and I both know it wasn't No Black rule gonna say that shyt. That was a white rule. This is why you cant compare something that was white ruled to an artform started by Blacks for Blacks. I keep saying this over and over again.

see above and as I already pointed out, noone put a gun to their and made them perform. These blacks acts came up with their own routines and scripts that self inflicted the harm

Look I'll post the continuation of the same article u posted;


These black performers became stars within the broad African-American community, but were largely ignored or condemned by the black bourgeoisie. James Monroe Trotter — a middle-class African American who had contempt for their "disgusting caricaturing" but admired their "highly musical culture"—wrote in 1882 that "few... who condemned black minstrels for giving 'aid and comfort to the enemy'" had ever seen them perform



Thats your article. Thats the continuation from where we pointed out that the theater distributors were pushed under white rules. Those Black actors from the past became stars amongst the Black community from white platforms. Thats what the article you posted states.

the fuk..are you missing the part of them doing these same acts on the black circuit w/o any white people around?


Jubilee tells it like it once was for black vaudeville performers

Star names

There was some incredible talent in black vaudeville, including Louis Armstrong, Bessie Smith, Ma Rainey, Pigmeat Markham, Moms Mabley, Josephine Baker, Hattie McDaniel, Eubie Blake and Fats Waller. Few, however, successfully crossed over to white vaudeville. And when they did, their acts were often presented differently.

"A black performer might have had an act he did for both black audiences and white audiences," says Anne Healy, a member of the theater faculty at the University of Texas at Arlington. "But in front of a white audience, he might be doing it in front of a backdrop of a plantation or while dressed in tatters and rags."

But, on the whole, the content of the black vaudeville shows was similar to that found in white vaudeville -- including one pretty shocking overlap.

"If you were going to be successful you had to have four or five singers, an exotic dancer and a blackface comedian," says King, who is directing this sixth show at Jubilee.

Ironically, black vaudeville featured minstrel shows.

"There were white performers in black face and there were black performers in blackface. Toward the end of the era, you had white performers pretending to be blacks pretending to be black," says King.

And while it may seem strange to think of a black entertainer putting on blackface, for many working that circuit, it just came with the territory.

"Some black performers put the blackface on just as they would have put any stage makeup on. A job was a job," says Healy, who is working on a doctoral dissertation about vaudeville.

Jubilee tells it like it once was for black vaudeville performers | Star-Telegram.com

Again, you cant compare Black actors being stereotypes on white controlled and demanding platforms to the self inflicting stereotypes of Hip Hip in the early 90s which was created by Blacks for blacks.

dog, there was a black vaudeville circuits where the blacks were in control of what and how they performed

 

[smokeurobinson]

I don't agree with that. They did stuff in their neighborhoods and tried to get other people to follow suit. But to each his own.

Doing stuff in your neighborhood aint no damn revolution. You comparing doing stuff in the neighborhood to what Nelson Mandela and Fidel Castro were doing?

Birdman just did a video with him giving out turkeys for Thanksgiving. Had a whole thankgsgiving set up with everything so that a family didnt have to add any extras. But Birdman has materialism in his music. He's not speaking about revolutions like that.

You talking about what they did in their neighborhood...I'm talking about what they said in their lyrics. Where is the Peoples radio? You would think that when youtube popped off in 2005 they would have used it to get the Peoples Radio moving...All these Podcasts popping off.....where's the Peoples radio podcats? None of that ever happened because like I said, it sounded good on wax.

 

[smokeurobinson]

stop it....ernest wrote hogan wrote and performed the song on his own accord:




it's the epitome of self inflicted harm

LOL

Again your own evidence is destroying your argument




look at what u posted.

Hogan's songs were among the first published ragtime songs and the first to use the term "rag" in their sheet music copy




but lets look at some other outside info

Hogan followed this song with the hit "All c00ns Look Alike to Me". Hogan was evidently not the originator of the song's lyrics, having appropriated them after hearing a pianist in a Chicago salon playing a song titled "All Pimps Look Alike to Me".[6] Hogan merely changed the words slightly, substituting the word "c00n" for "pimp"[7] and added a cakewalk syncopation to the music, which he had heard being played in back rooms and cafes.[8] The song eventually sold over a million copies


Now lets stop right there.

You posted an article saying Hogans music was the first to be published. I posted something saying that Hogan had a song that sold 1 million copies in sheet music.


Now....was this a white publisher of sheet music or a Black publisher of sheet music that helped sell the song to a millon copies so that it would be popular enough for people to actually know the song?





Could a Black publisher push a million copies like that at the time?



Well according to the National Museaum Of American History that specific song was published by

M. Witmark & Sons....

.....I googled them. Guess what?

They aint Black.








Here's some more crow for you to eat.

Hogan became a national star with the song for which he was to be known for the rest of his life, "All c00ns Look Alike to Me." Adapted from a song he had heard in a bar in Chicago and written for the white show Widow Jones,






So when he wrote that song that you keep stressing..He wrote it with white people in mind.


Wow....



How many times do I have to say that you cant compare an artform that was created by Blacks for Blacks to a platform for whites when speaking on real self inflicting stereotypes?

 

[smokeurobinson]

see above and as I already pointed out, noone put a gun to their and made them perform. These blacks acts came up with their own routines and scripts that self inflicted the harm





the fuk..are you missing the part of them doing these same acts on the black circuit w/o any white people around?


Jubilee tells it like it once was for black vaudeville performers




Jubilee tells it like it once was for black vaudeville performers | Star-Telegram.com




dog, there was a black vaudeville circuits where the blacks were in control of what and how they performed

homie u cant keep flip floppin...It makes u look like you are reaching which is what u really are doing.




this is what u posted

Ironically, black vaudeville featured minstrel shows.

"There were white performers in black face and there were black performers in blackface.






thats what u posted from the Jubilee article....But then you turn around and say



dog, there was a black vaudeville circuits where the blacks were in control of what and how they performed


In the same sentence where the article speaks on Black Vaudeville it states that there were some white performers in Black face.....The same circuits that u just stated Blacks controlled.


Well homie...I dont think they had that much control if both of your own evidence states that the Black controlled circuits had white people in Black face. that doesnt sound very Black controlled. That sounds white controlled.



Thats the articles u posted And I keep saying over and over again..u cant compare white platforms to something created by Blacks for Blacks



and u have the nerve to compare Minstrel Shows to Hip Hop....In the 70's wasnt no whiteman coming to the hood mocking Black people and telling them "Ok Darkies...This is your music now go ahead and call it Hip Hop and when the 90's kick in I want you to go extra hard with the stereotypes" and everyone just played along. Thats what u are doing by comparing Black Minstrel Shows to Hip Hop. It makes u look like u are reaching.

 

[smokeurobinson]

The Hip Hop era is the first time in American history when a large number of young black people
(mostly male) had such an impact on marketing their lifestyles to the general public.

This was unprecedented. This did not happen during the Micheaux period, or during the Motown or
Philadelphia International and Stax periods. That was all random and isolated. This was a cluster burst
of young black music ownership.

More ownership meant more control of what messaging and images were expressed, for better
or worse. Unfortunately, this "freedom of ownership" coincided with the growth of gangs, guns, drugs and stripper culture in our communities. One fed off the other.

The "Keep It Real" movement of the early to mid 90s drove the industry to represent what was
on the streets rather than romance (Whodini), politics (Public Enemy, X-Clan) or humor (Fat Boys,
Biz Markie).

Many of these companies battled with their white distribution partners over content
control. Time Warner ended its deal with Interscope over their partnership with Death Row
during their battle over content with C. Delores Tucker, William Bennett and Senator Joseph
Lieberman.

White cultural filters enter Hip Hop through The Source, MTV, and Hot 97, making Keep It Real glock 9mm
street culture mainstream and acceptable to everybody.

Sugarhill Records - Black owned

Enjoy Records - Black owned

Luke Skyywalker Records - Black owned

Ruthless Records - Black owned

Uptown Records - Black owned

Bad Boy Entertainment - Black owned

Death Row Records - Black owned

Cold Chillin Records - Black co-owned

Rap-A-Lot Records - Black owned

No Limit Entertainment - Black owned

Def Jam Records - Black co-owned

Roc-A-Fella Records - Black owned

Forty Acres and a Mule Filmworks - Black owned

LaFace Records - Black owned

Slip N Slide Records - Black owned

Very well put.

 

[smokeurobinson]

@hustlemania

You know how I know u a sucker in real life? Because you known me since SOHH yet you co signed a nobody who signed up days ago and called me a st0rmfr0nt Cac.


Thats means you'll co sign bullshyt on purpose over something as simple as a disagreement of opinion.

Thats what suckers do.

@IllmaticDelta you a sucker for co signing that bullshyt as well. You want me to take u serious with your rebuttles but you'll co sign bullshyt that has nothing to do with me thats about me....I cant take u serious when u do that.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

...try to slither out of self inflicted stereotyping from the result of c00ning it up

 

[Silver Surfer]

@hustlemania

You know how I know u a sucker in real life? Because you known me since SOHH yet you co signed a nobody who signed up days ago and called me a st0rmfr0nt Cac.


Thats means you'll co sign bullshyt on purpose over something as simple as a disagreement of opinion.

Thats what suckers do.

@IllmaticDelta you a sucker for co signing that bullshyt as well. You want me to take u serious with your rebuttles but you'll co sign bullshyt that has nothing to do with me thats about me....I cant take u serious when u do that.

 

[Higher Tech]

Doing stuff in your neighborhood aint no damn revolution. You comparing doing stuff in the neighborhood to what Nelson Mandela and Fidel Castro were doing?

Birdman just did a video with him giving out turkeys for Thanksgiving. Had a whole thankgsgiving set up with everything so that a family didnt have to add any extras. But Birdman has materialism in his music. He's not speaking about revolutions like that.

You talking about what they did in their neighborhood...I'm talking about what they said in their lyrics. Where is the Peoples radio? You would think that when youtube popped off in 2005 they would have used it to get the Peoples Radio moving...All these Podcasts popping off.....where's the Peoples radio podcats? None of that ever happened because like I said, it sounded good on wax.

You just compared Dead Prez to Nelson Mandela and Fidel Castro to a couple of militant rappers.

 

[smokeurobinson]

...try to slither out of self inflicted stereotyping from the result of c00ning it up

LOL...yep u are about done. Now u just going in circles. I already responded to what u claimed I slithered away from in post #342


Now that I see u going in circles I'll respond to this one thing u keep stressing that I already tackled but I'll flip it different...

U stated;



noone put a gun to their and made them perform. These blacks acts came up with their own routines and scripts that self inflicted the harm.



This is your overall claim. U also claim they did this with Black audiences.

But let me explain to u why u cant compare the two.

Hip Hop around the same time NWA and 2Live Crew were revolutionizing raunchiness in Hip Hop, Rakim, Brand Nubians and Wu Tang were promoting music that had a foundation saying the white man was the devil. You didnt have no shyt like that during the era of Minstrel Shows....all u had that came close were negro spirituals...the same way u co sign sheet music distributed amongst Blacks is the same way negro spirituals got popular and songs like "Go Down Moses" and "Lift Every Voice And Sing" was light shyt that the whiteman would let rock. You cant show me 1 article that has Black sheet music talking about getting revenge on that evil slave master.

You comparing an artform that had an era of shyting on the whiteman to a platform where something like that didnt exist.


Hip Hop had Public enemy.....What was the counter to these Minstrel Shows you keep stressing? Because when I tried to point them out from your own articles u would ignore them.....so where is the Public enemy, Brand nubian, Poor righteous Teachers, X Clan of the late 1800's? Hip Hop had a counter to the bafoonery. Public enemy was bigger then NWA and 2 Live Crew at one point....Hip Hop was held to a higher standard yet u dare wanna compare that to minstrel shows?

so where was the counter in the late 1800's?? Hip Hop was held to a higher standard at one point by the likes of Public Enemy (and the whole Stop The Violence movement) so how can u compare that to all these minstrel shows articles u posted which didnt hold Black peoples image to a high standard like Public Enemy??

There was no counter so u cant compare the 2.

 

[smokeurobinson]

Let me further point out why you cant compare Hip Hop to minstrel shows when speaking on self inflicted stereotypes.


I dare u to find a Blackman who had a song about killing law enforcement that was popular during the Minstrel Show era like this





Show me the song that was popular during the Minstrel show era that had a Black man shytting on the white woman like this..







point out the Minstrel Show era song were Black people made a song openly speaking up for racial injustice like this








Show me the Minstrel Show era song by a Black man that had a skit making mockery of killing white people.








These 4 examples are why u cannot compare Hip Hop to Minstrel Shows when speaking on self inflicted stereotypes.

 

[Originalman]

Guess OP never heard of black exploitation movies.