Half the Perfect Dark Team quit, project is in Development hell

[Legal]

That’s the struggle. Halo can’t be Halo without appeasing those people. Myself included.

But that also means there’s criticism coming from all sides. Some of it unfair


I didn’t write off all criticism. I said the current “noise” is mostly driven by people who only care about said noise.

Co-op was announced as missing months before the game came out. The people that, were bothered by that said their piece and moved on. The people still running around the web to talk about how disappointed they are with co-op missing are those that just want to promote negativity about the game.


I don’t feel this is a fair assessment. The “noise” makes it seem the game launched before ready. Part of that is due to unattainable expectations of fans, but the majority of that narrative is driven by people who don’t necessarily care about the game.

In reality if you compare Halo to most any game that has come out recently it has LOTS of content.

It’s just missing a feature that 9 out of 10 games don’t even bother with anymore.

It’s only a story cause legacy fans want it in the game, and every one else can latch on to that one specific thing to complain.

How many FPS games actually have a co-op campaign these days?

None I can think of. But somehow Halo is “incomplete” cause it’s gonna take them a little more time to work on it


What “same issues” are you talking about??

Co-op isn't a feature that most games have, but we're not talking about them. We're talking about Halo. It's a feature that the Halo series is known for. That seems to be one of those "Halo can't be Halo without it" type things. The problem that it seems like people have with it missing at this point is that it didn't launch with it, and they don't really have a timeline on when it'll be available. We know it's not launching at least with the patch coming when Season 2 starts, so that's almost five months without it. Not having a fan favorite feature for the better part of half a year without an idea of when it's coming isn't ideal.

And the "same issues" are that development seems to be disorganized to the detriment of the game, and there seems to be a curious level of turnover with the staff. Halo very clearly had an issue since it got pushed back by an entire year, and still had to launch two modes well after it released. Perfect Dark sounds like it might be fodder for a bunch of tweets Jason Schreier has in drafts. The last thing I remember hearing about Everwild was that even Rare doesn't even know what the game's supposed to be. Again, if this were to happen with three different independent studios, this is just three cases of development being hard. But for this to happen with three studios that one company has control of is when people start asking questions about how the studios benefit from being wholely owned, aside from money. Personally, I still hope they all these games come out when they're ready, and are good. But looking at it objectively, the common denominator between all three is where you start raising eyebrows and asking questions.

 

[Tim Lord]

Y’all just create these feel good narratives for yourself.

In reality Jade Raymond game doesn’t even exist right now, and literally all they did was give Kena and Kojima money and marketing.

Microsoft has done that with with dozens of games. But for whatever reason I’m these feel good stories you guys create, those game don’t exist.

Microsoft finding and funding games like, Tunic, Deaths Door, Sunset Overdrive, state of decay, ori, Cuphead, etc doesn’t even exist.

Kojimas next game has already signed with Xbox.

Despite all of that, in your PlayStation bubble, you goofys create these narratives and just run wild.

And some of you, truly believe this shyt


Sony stans wild

No feel good here. Sony has missteps as well. Also, I wasn’t really talking specifically about Microsoft. It was more of a comment about big tech trying to buy their way into the industry.

Anyways, carry on with your posts. They’re funny.

I mean you let your creators create. As an executive you don't stick your nose in that. Every project doesn't pan out. Psychonauts 2 benefited from having that backing and letting them cook but truth is if there's a disfunctional environment where leads don't mesh no executive is gonna step in and magically fix it.

Both things can be true. You can let creators create but still provide support to help them achieve their vision.

Im not talking about Mr. or Ms. Ivory Tower exec making decisions from up top. Im more
talking about providing research, tool support, motion capture tech/facilities and experienced individuals to make sure the project is moving along.

Back to the Jade Raymond example, they recently announced that Mark Cerny is helping with the project in some form. At the very least, he brings 40 years of experience and a direct line to PlayStation tech support with him. He isn’t going to dominate the project, but he can help make sure this brand-new, small studio is moving on the right track.

Lets go with a Microsoft example. You are right, Psychonauts 2 devs really just needed money to flesh out their project and thats what they got. They are more exception than rule.

Another example could be Halo Infinite. Yes, with tons of time and money they got a shippable product out, but remember, MS let them cook unsupervised for years missing milestones before they stepped in and inserted Joe Staten to change the path of development and deliver a shipped product.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Co-op isn't a feature that most games have, but we're not talking about them. We're talking about Halo.

Halo is the only game held to this standard.

It must be everything that every prior halo game ever was. It has to be better than modern games at whatever they do. It must evolve so it’s not just the same Halo, but it must also stay the same Halo, or it’s not Halo anymore.

If it doesn’t do all these things simultaneously, then someone is “disappointed” and the game is “incomplete”:stoptslime:

It's a feature that the Halo series is known for. That seems to be one of those "Halo can't be Halo without it" type things.

If you ask someone else they will tell you Halo is “known for” it’s competitive multiplayer and they don’t even play the campaign.

Why would it make sense for 343i to delay the game to appease one set of fans, at the detriment of the other?

The problem that it seems like people have with it missing at this point is that it didn't launch with it, and they don't really have a timeline on when it'll be available. We know it's not launching at least with the patch coming when Season 2 starts, so that's almost five months without it. Not having a fan favorite feature for the better part of half a year without an idea of when it's coming isn't ideal.

This isn’t true. It’s coming season 2. Just not at the launch of it.
No it’s not ideal, but it also doesn’t mean the game is “incomplete”

And the "same issues" are that development seems to be disorganized to the detriment of the game, and there seems to be a curious level of turnover with the staff.

Every single game/studio has lots of turnover. All the people that left one of these studios, also left a different studio to be there.

Halo very clearly had an issue since it got pushed back by an entire year, and still had to launch two modes well after it released.

Again every single large game over the last year or so has been delayed. It’s almost like there was a global pandemic or something

Perfect Dark sounds like it might be fodder for a bunch of tweets Jason Schreier has in drafts. The last thing I remember hearing about Everwild was that even Rare doesn't even know what the game's supposed to be. Again, if this were to happen with three different independent studios, this is just three cases of development being hard. But for this to happen with three studios that one company has control of is when people start asking questions about how the studios benefit from being wholely owned, aside from money. Personally, I still hope they all these games come out when they're ready, and are good. But looking at it objectively, the common denominator between all three is where you start raising eyebrows and asking questions.

These people left the studio a long time ago. They hired Crystal Dynamics a long time ago. The only reason it’s a story today is because people are tweeting about it.

The game has not even started full production yet. It’s still just ideas at this point. Apparently some people weren’t on board with those ideas. The people that were on board, have now staffed up to make the game come to life. It seems like a normal progression of things if it’s not being presented with console warrior Fud.

Same with the Rare thing, it was a quote taken out of context and a Twitter “insider” with a tweet. Then we get a whole perception about a project you don’t really know anything about. What we do know is Rares last project was a great success. Why wouldn’t Microsoft get credit for “managing” that? Somehow now cause rare is working on a new IP Microsoft suddenly started mismanaging them whatever the hell that even mean

So we got 343i with the best Rated and most played Halo Game in over a decade.

We got rare working on the follow up to one of the greatest gaming success stories of last gen.

The initiative finally kicking into full gear on their project, with a very experienced and competent team.

But due to a couple tweets it somehow means Microsoft is “mismanaging” a bunch of studios

Like I said, it’s mostly console wars noise. Realistically/objectively Microsoft is doing just fine with their studios.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

No feel good here. Sony has missteps as well. Also, I wasn’t really talking specifically about Microsoft. It was more of a comment about big tech trying to buy their way into the industry.

Anyways, carry on with your posts. They’re funny.

But your post was wrong as fukk.

Literally all Sony did is write a check for games like Kena

 

[Diondon]

AAAA

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

AAAA

Might need to add another A

 

[Pull Up the Roots]

@MeachTheMonster having a meltdown is fukking funny.

Anybody taking an honest look could have seen this coming. The premier "AAAA" studio pr was always smoke and mirrors.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

@MeachTheMonster having a meltdown is fukking funny.

Anybody taking an honest look could have seen this coming. The premier "AAAA" studio pr was always smoke and mirrors.

There was never any AAAA PR.

It was always advertised a small incubation studio.

The AAAA came from a random “insider” tweet then everyone ran with it.

Official word was that they are small and would be staying that way
Xbox Game Studios 'The Initiative' talks 'staying small, staying agile' | Windows Central

 

[ALonelyDad]

MS management
shyt will be Crackdown 3 status
keep post them splash pages of studios doe

Someone should update that graphic and put a X on the studios as Microsoft destroys them

 

[Pull Up the Roots]

There was never any AAAA PR.

It was always advertised a small incubation studio.

The AAAA came from a random “insider” tweet then everyone ran with it.

Official word was that they are small and would be staying that way
Xbox Game Studios 'The Initiative' talks 'staying small, staying agile' | Windows Central

No it wasn't. It came from a Studio listing trying to attract talent. It's even in the article you're linking.

The Xbox One's first-party games lineup has faced heavy criticism in recent years, failing to establish the console has a leading platform for in-house titles. Early Microsoft career listings pitched The Initiative as a "AAAA" studio from Microsoft, expected to elevate the publisher's games portfolio. Similar themes remain today, with key studio figures framing its upcoming plans as "new and innovative," and "spectacular and unique.

The small and agile claims are obviously horseshyt given how the studio exploded in the following years. Now it's imploding. That's why you just do the work instead of shouting about every new studio addition.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

No it wasn't. It came from a Studio listing trying to attract talent. It's even in the article you're linking.

An add from from a wanted listing that was promptly deleted, probably due to a typo is not PR.

Recently, Microsoft posted (then deleted) a job listing for a manager of a new Santa Monica-based "AAAA" game studio, but what can we realistically expect?

That’s my point. Someone tweeted it out, and people just started repeating it. Microsoft or the studio itself never advertised it as such.

It’s just something you goofys ran with so you could inevitably say whatever they made is not AAAA

The studio, the game, or it’s employees didn’t even exist at the time of that listing.

The small and agile claims are obviously horseshyt given how the studio exploded in the following years. Now it's imploding. That's why you just do the work instead of shouting about every new studio addition.

Nothing ever “exploded” at their peak there was about 60 employees. That’s a very small studio.

And they weren’t the ones making the announcements. It was people stalking job listings and posting tweets, as per everything else about this game.

The only things they officially announced were that they were purposely a small studio and that they would be working with Crystal Dynamics on Perfect Dark. That was barely a year ago. There’s nothing even to say about the game right now but……here we are

 

[Legal]

Halo is the only game held to this standard.

It must be everything that every prior halo game ever was. It has to be better than modern games at whatever they do. It must evolve so it’s not just the same Halo, but it must also stay the same Halo, or it’s not Halo anymore.

If it doesn’t do all these things simultaneously, then someone is “disappointed” and the game is “incomplete”:stoptslime:


If you ask someone else they will tell you Halo is “known for” it’s competitive multiplayer and they don’t even play the campaign.

Why would it make sense for 343i to delay the game to appease one set of fans, at the detriment of the other?

This isn’t true. It’s coming season 2. Just not at the launch of it.
No it’s not ideal, but it also doesn’t mean the game is “incomplete”


Every single game/studio has lots of turnover. All the people that left one of these studios, also left a different studio to be there.


Again every single large game over the last year or so has been delayed. It’s almost like there was a global pandemic or something


These people left the studio a long time ago. They hired Crystal Dynamics a long time ago. The only reason it’s a story today is because people are tweeting about it.

The game has not even started full production yet. It’s still just ideas at this point. Apparently some people weren’t on board with those ideas. The people that were on board, have now staffed up to make the game come to life. It seems like a normal progression of things if it’s not being presented with console warrior Fud.

Same with the Rare thing, it was a quote taken out of context and a Twitter “insider” with a tweet. Then we get a whole perception about a project you don’t really know anything about. What we do know is Rares last project was a great success. Why wouldn’t Microsoft get credit for “managing” that? Somehow now cause rare is working on a new IP Microsoft suddenly started mismanaging them whatever the hell that even mean

So we got 343i with the best Rated and most played Halo Game in over a decade.

We got rare working on the follow up to one of the greatest gaming success stories of last gen.

The initiative finally kicking into full gear on their project, with a very experienced and competent team.

But due to a couple tweets it somehow means Microsoft is “mismanaging” a bunch of studios

Like I said, it’s mostly console wars noise. Realistically/objectively Microsoft is doing just fine with their studios.

Okay, by your standard, deciding to leave out a feature you fully intended to launch with in order to get the game out the door ISN'T shipping it incomplete?

And the three main pillars of Halo, from what I've always been told, are Multiplayer, Co-Op, and Story. Those are the three things you always hear long term fans describe as the things that hooked them. Just because you seemingly don't care about co-op doesn't mean that there aren't other people that do.

Also, when you know the perception is that you have a limited game catalog, why show a trailer for a game that's not even in full production? And having two full lead studios working on one game that isn't in full production is crazy, breh.

Additionally, I don't think there isn't a single person who doesn't give Microsoft and Rare for putting in the work to turn Sea of Thieves around. But for one, the fact that it even launched in the threadbare state that it did can't be ignored, and secondly, it's a separate game.

The common problem is that there seems to be a noted lack of urgency and direction for these titles, and eventually as a punisher that owns studios, that's where you're supposed to step in if the studios aren't handling those issues themselves.

Also, you gotta kill it with anything that didn't come directly out of a Microsoft employees mouth automatically being false. Act like most "newsbreakers" these days aren't just passing along info their sources wants them to get out, brehs.

 

[Marci-Senpai]

Xbox making it hard for ppl (including me) to love them

 

[Pull Up the Roots]

This also highlights how a lot of so-called games journalists are just pr people.

Why The Initiative hired Crystal Dynamics to help with Perfect Dark

This should have a "paid for by MS" tag on it or something.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

This also highlights how a lot of so-called games journalists are just pr people.

Why The Initiative hired Crystal Dynamics to help with Perfect Dark

This should have a "paid for by MS" tag on it or something.

It’s Jeff grubb, MS been paid for that GUSSY in perpetuity