@GilScottHeroin: Luka has a bigger offensive impact than Kareem

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

It's like, what's the point of being great if threads like these are going to be made?

People downplaying your GOATness and trying to simplify it to era

Nah motherfukkers I'm great in any era would be KAJ's response

The same will happen to Jordan and eventually Lebron

People start questioning the legend

People rarely even mention Wilt when they talk about GOATs for example
but I'm sure in his era no one thought there would be anyone better

Your greatness will be questioned, and eventually forgotten

This is why it's important to understand the context behind what I'm arguing.

I'm simply stating that big men in today's league (as it relates to AD, and big men of the past) don't have the same offensive impact as main ball-handlers (Giannis, LeBron, Luka etc). Remember, in the context of today's game; not what impact big men had in the past. That's not downplaying what Cap proved during his time and his standing in history, it's just stating that the league is different now, and what had importance and impact in the past doesn't have the same importance and impact, today. Of course, Cap would be great in any era, he just wouldn't be as impactful (on offense) in today's climate. The circumstances that allowed Cap to play and impact the game the way he did in the 70s are no longer present in today's game. Acknowledging that is not the same as "downplaying" his historical feats. It goes without saying he's one of the GOATs. During his time the 3-pt shot wasn't prioritized and teams' offenses consisted primarily of post-up/inside-out play - that is the complete opposite to the basketball-milieu now.

No big man from the past that had the benefit of playing during a time where conditions suited their play, would have the same impact, today, where the conditions aren't as suitable.

If you're gonna keep throwing shots at me, at least address the argument I'm making instead of this straw man shyt. This board has a serious problem romanticizing what happened in the past and not valuing it for how it actually is.

 

[Dwight Howard]

Kareem could slow the pace and completely wreck the league.He would force you to play basketball his was like the Gasol,Randolph Grizzlies.

Doing ding ding. When you're all time great, you do what you want. Period.

 

[Consigliere]

The point hes trying to make isn't really hard to understand

He’s pushing all the right buttons.

Inflammatory Poster - check
Mentioning a Goat tier player & Laker - check
Elevating a White basketball player - check
Using Analytics - check

Only thing he didn’t do was insert Kobe/Bron/MJ.

Posters are clearly traumatized from previous interactions and now triggered at the the idea of nuance.

 

[Dwight Howard]

He’s pushing all the right buttons.

Inflammatory Poster - check
Mentioning a Goat tier player & Laker - check
Elevating a White basketball player - check
Using Analytics - check

Only thing he didn’t do was insert Kobe/Bron/MJ.

Posters are clearly traumatized from previous interactions and now triggered at the the idea of nuance.

There isnt any fukking nuance. Making the statement that luka is more impactful than KAJ is purely made for reactions. When people look sideways you want to say "it doesn't mean he better, just more impactful", knowing damn well what he is doing.We all know bigs dont get more touches than guards. That's common sense, even when KAJ played with Magic, so what is the point of making that claim other than to try and use the word impact to prop up today's era? Yall dudes still dont see through the bullshyt. Smh

 

[Jplaya2023]

Because Cap never proved he could run an offense like Jokic.



Can you please explain to me how he'd average 35+ points, today, when:

Cap averaged 35 points on 25 shots, averaging 44 mins, in 1972, when the league-average pace was around 110+ possessions

In 2019/2020 the league-average pace is only 101 possessions

From 1973 to 1978 (aged 25-30) he averaged:

30 points in 43 minutes with a league-average pace of 108+ possessions
27 points in 44 minutes with a league-average pace of 108 possessions
30 points in 42 minutes with a league-average pace of 104 possessions
27 points in 41 minutes with a league-average pace of 105 possessions
26 points in 37 minutes with a league-average pace of 106 possessions
26 points in 37 minutes with a league-average pace of 106 possessions

Let me reiterate:

In 2019/2020 the league-average pace is only 101 possessions
In 2018/19 - 100 possessions
In 2017/18 - 97 possessions

There's not a chance in hell that Cap is averaging 35+ points in today's game. No big man, especially one who isn't a prolific 3-pt shooter, is averaging that amount of points.

He wouldn't play enough minutes for starters, he wouldn't have enough shot attempts and touches, defenses would be better at limiting his scoring output, the game is different today where post-ups aren't prioritzied and 3-pt shooting is, and there's a greater talent pool now where Cap wouldn't be playing in every single lineup when he did back in the 70s.

You have all these different specifilized lineups when teams go small and/or have multiple shooters/ball-handlers that Cap would rarely play in.

I mean it speaks volumes that you're hanging your entire argument on box score stats without any ability to contextulize them properly.

Cap is a TRANSCENDENT player. It does not matter what ERA he plays in, the rules, the pace, etc.. etc.. He's eating and he's going to put up monster stats.

 

[Jplaya2023]

Gil made a lot of enemies on this forum throughout the years

OP posted 5 lines out of an entire post talking about what every single poster on this forum already knows about the modern NBA: shyt is a 3 point shooting contest and a PnR fest with ball-dominant PGs/wings having insane usage rates

Trae, Harden, Luka, LeBron off top. Westbrook a couple years ago.

We’ve all seen it. We all know it. Majority of this forum and the public bemoans how 3-centric the game has become. Back-to-basket post players are dinosaurs.

Embiid and AD would be putting up Shaq numbers if this was 1995. Instead it’s 2019, and yes, guys like Luka and Trae and Harden have more impact in today’s game than even KAJ.

KAJ still the better player over Luka and Trae and Harden, but get those daps, brehs

no they wouldn't. Embiid was struggling against old Marc Gasol last year. He would have to play on the box against centers his length and width (PAUSE) that would keep him from the basket. He wouldn't be playing on the perimeter in 1995.

 

[Consigliere]

There isnt any fukking nuance. Making the statement that luka is more impactful than KAJ is purely made for reactions. When people look sideways you want to say "it doesn't mean he better, just more impactful", knowing damn well what he is doing.We all know bigs dont get more touches than guards. That's common sense, even when KAJ played with Magic, so what is the point of making that claim other than to try and use the word impact to prop up today's era? Yall dudes still dont see through the bullshyt. Smh

I just don’t let it bother me. His opinions aren’t gospel.

I also think it’s not a terrible discussion because it shows how much the game is broken right now.

 

[mastermind]

Kareem could slow the pace and completely wreck the league.He would force you to play basketball his was like the Gasol,Randolph Grizzlies.

Explain how Kareem would slow the league when the league is playing at a slower pace than it was in his prime?

Gasol/ZBo Grizzlies didn’t beast in this current NBA. When the league started to change, they were quickly pushed aside.

 

[Dwight Howard]

Explain how Kareem would slow the league when the league is playing at a slower pace than it was in his prime?

Gasol/ZBo Grizzlies didn’t beast in this current NBA. When the league started to change, they were quickly pushed aside.

1. Regardless of pace, KAJ would eat..period. We've seen him in the showtime offense running the floor and getting easy transition buckets but we've also seen him break down defenders in the post methodically. Either way he was dominant.

2. Gasol and Zbo weren't "pushed aside", they simply got old. I dont know where you dudes get this shyt from at all but its completely disingenuous.

 

[Cynical Thoughts]

There isnt any fukking nuance. Making the statement that luka is more impactful than KAJ is purely made for reactions. When people look sideways you want to say "it doesn't mean he better, just more impactful", knowing damn well what he is doing.We all know bigs dont get more touches than guards. That's common sense, even when KAJ played with Magic, so what is the point of making that claim other than to try and use the word impact to prop up today's era? Yall dudes still dont see through the bullshyt. Smh

This.

Gil will go to the ends of the earth to discredit past eras/players to prop up the current era.

he uses smoke and mirrors and words like “impact”to deceive the ignorant. He can’t out right say what he thinks cause no one would take him seriously.

He is disrespecting KAJ.

 

[I.AM.PIFF]

Kareem could slow the pace and completely wreck the league.He would force you to play basketball his was like the Gasol,Randolph Grizzlies.

He would dominate on an individual level. No one's questioning this.

He would need excellent guard play to win tho. I mean, he did have Big O (although an older version) and Magic on his title teams who are among the top 2-3 GOAT PGs.

 

[HTXBreh]

He would dominate on an individual level. No one's questioning this.

He would need excellent guard play to win tho. I mean, he did have Big O (although an older version) and Magic on his title teams who are among the top 2-3 GOAT PGs.

The game slows down in the playoffs though ,and also one player can takeover a series.

 

[Squirrel from Meteor Man]

Hallelujah.

Someone that understands the game. Why is this so hard for folks to understand?

So something like passing out of a double team isn’t creating scoring opportunities? You’re a true casual. Absolutely WOAT status. You have no idea how basketball is played.

I’m waiting on the Luka is better/more impactful than Jordan thread. @Codeine Fiend Dream Team already said he’s better than Lebron so might as well jump all the way out the window

 

[DrexlersFade]

Kareem played against guys who were forklift drivers, night watchmen and morgue janitors in the off season while Luka plays in the toughest era in NBA history where everyone plays super tough night in and night out and it's impossible to even get a shot off

 

[Young Fab]

Nah, he's just a fukking idiot

^^^^^this and only this