Giannis Antetokounmpo should now be in the lead for MVP. 🦌

[Kenny West]

And I backed that up with the plus/minus stats of those players from other seasons and referenced them against Jokic from the same years (when they were on different teams).

Jokic was still one of the league-leaders whereas the likes of Gordon was ranked 400th.

Jokic himself isn't the damning factor. Its the teammates all being net rating leaders. Are those guys lying about how the coach manages the reserves? Are the Nuggets a championship caliber squad? Are those players all top 5 at their positions? If not then the logic is pretty cut and dry & the numbers make perfect sense in that context.

If those players weren't making top-10 net ratings on other teams then that would be helping prove the point. The system they're running has the starters always playing at full strength compared to the more rotational play of other teams

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Jokic himself isn't the damning factor.

Except he is, because he's been one of the league-leaders in plus-minus for years now, when the likes of Gordon, MPJ, KCP etc haven't even been on the team.

Its the teammates all being net rating leaders. Are those guys lying about how the coach manages the reserves? Are the Nuggets a championship caliber squad? Are those players all top 5 at their positions? If not then the logic is pretty cut and dry & the numbers make perfect sense in that context.

It's because they're in lineups with Jokic, and they're above-average quality starters.

Jokic was missing his #2 and #3 options last season, and yet he still had the 7th highest plus/minus in the league playing with a lottery support cast - no other Denver player was in the #20. Whereas Boston had four players, PHX had three, Milwaukee had two, Memphis had three etc. He's the best playmaker/offensive centerpiece in the league and it's the reason why all the players that play in the lineups he's in end up having such a high plus/minus.

No greater indication than this -

Apart from Murray, these guys struggle to score effectively without Jokic on the floor.

That person who wrote that is a Giannis apologist and is blatantly manipulating the stats to tell a story that isn't reflective of reality.

If those players weren't making top-10 net ratings on other teams then that would be helping prove the point. The system they're running has the starters always playing at full strength compared to the more rotational play of other teams

It's not the system - it's Jokic.

The starting 5 for Denver aren't even in the top-5 for most-played minutes in the league. In fact, if you compare the Denver starting 5 (only 471 minutes) and compare them to the Kings starting 5 (732 minutes), you'll see that their starters playing together pale in comparison to the amount of time that the Kings starters do.

 

[Kenny West]

Except he is, because he's been one of the league-leaders in plus-minus for years now, when the likes of Gordon, MPJ, KCP etc haven't even been on the team.

It's because they're in lineups with Jokic, and they're above-average quality starters.

Jokic was missing his #2 and #3 options last season, and yet he still had the 7th highest plus/minus in the league playing with a lottery support cast - no other Denver player was in the #20. Whereas Boston had four players, PHX had three, Milwaukee had two, Memphis had three etc. He's the best playmaker/offensive centerpiece in the league and it's the reason why all the players that play in the lineups he's in end up having such a high plus/minus

Apart from Murray, these guys struggle to score effectively without Jokic on the floor.

I meam the point is they rarely play without Jokic on the floor right? And vice versa. A small coaching habit like that can have a statistical effect over an 82 game season

That person who wrote that is Giannis' apologist and is blatantly manipulating the stats to tell a story that isn't reflective of reality.

It's not the system - it's Jokic.

The starting 5 for Denver aren't even in the top-5 for most-played minutes in the league. In fact, if you compare the Denver starting 5 (only 471 minutes) and compare them to the Kings starting 5 (732 minutes), you'll see that their starters playing together pale in comparison to the amount of time that the Kings starters do.

This is a good point, Idk how to fact check starting 5 minutes so I gotta take your word for it

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Analytics is a Ponzi scheme Denver Nuggets stay exploiting to steal MVPs for Jokic.

This breh (John Wilkes) explained it (this might be one of the best takes ever when it comes to Nuggets & Jokic):

Spoiler

Now, look at Nuggets starting 5 being top-10 in Net ratings:

Spoiler

It’s a scam.

Funny how you don't have the same energy when Giannis is "exploiting" triple doubles to "steal" votes in the MVP race -

It's a scam.

 

[Joe Sixpack]

I genuinely don’t know what Jokic did to bring this ire. He talks shyt but is ultimately inoffensive. Is it because he fukked up one of the Morris goons and then pulled up on the return game?

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

Yeah its Giannis. And Tatum over Joker to me

Tatum has wayyyyy too many 11-29 games to be over anybody

 

[Biscayne]

Disgusting stat-padding to get a triple double. Basketball Gods will end up remembering this. This y'all MVP?

You just hate Swole Greek Africans!! You just can’t accept that a African Greek is the face of the league!!

 

[Biscayne]

It’s Giannis and Joker. Whoever wins it, wins it. But at this point, it’d be silly and boarderline criminal not to give it to Joker. He already got the award as a 6th seed. Now as he’s gotten his team to a one seed, you’re gonna pass him over? The damage is done. It kinda has to be Joker. I’m conflicted and it’s ok. Joker can be top 5 all time when it’s said and done. And that’s dope.

Bring on the “stop European hate” posts.

Brehs conveniently forget that Gianni’s is a European too. Bbbbbut, we just mad because we can’t accept a Euro being the face of the league!!

 

[Biscayne]

Son is puttting up literal Wilt Chamberlain numbers with elite defense and has led his team to the best record in basketball with his second option missing most of the season and still on minutes restriction off the bench as we speak

Since apparently it’s hate speech to openly consider other players possibly having a case for MVP, let’s just rename it the Nikolai Jokic Memorial Award and just assume he wins it every year until he retires or the computers say otherwise…. MVP discussions henceforth should be had with the mutual understanding we mean most valuable non-Jokic players, as not to offend any parties

I can’t with these users. shyt is wild. On a website full of many different Stan’s and alliances, damn near every MVP winner has had yes men and naysayers. On and off this site. It’s rare to have an MVP where EVERYONE unanimously agrees it should be that guy. Hell yeah, a lot of brehs are hating because he’s a pudgy euro polar bear. Same way, hella brehs hate on Bron because he’s bron, hate on Embiid because he’s an oft injured perennial post season underachiever(and don’t think for a sec this doesn’t effect how fans view who should be their MVP), same way brehs hate on Harden and his MVP for damn near the same reason “Ok harden got his MVP, but we know breh ain’t gonna do shyt in the playoffs”, same reason brehs hate YoungSabo and saw his MVP as shameless Ricky Davis level statpadding. Same way Bron Stan’s hate on Steph because he stood in Brons way to more rings. Same way brehs hated on KD for teaming up with Steph. I guess in their eyes, Jokic is just too “pure” to be above the fray and shameless arguments.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

It’s Giannis and Joker. Whoever wins it, wins it. But at this point, it’d be silly and boarderline criminal not to give it to Joker. He already got the award as a 6th seed. Now as he’s gotten his team to a one seed, you’re gonna pass him over? The damage is done. It kinda has to be Joker. I’m conflicted and it’s ok. Joker can be top 5 all time when it’s said and done. And that’s dope.

Bring on the “stop European hate” posts.

Brehs conveniently forget that Gianni’s is a European too. Bbbbbut, we just mad because we can’t accept a Euro being the face of the league!!

You know cotdamn well this isn't the same thing. This is your argument(s) in a nutshell in here. Straight up arguing in bad faith.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

No [fake] Triple Double for Giannis. TheColi loses again.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Analytics is a Ponzi scheme Denver Nuggets stay exploiting to steal MVPs for Jokic.

This breh (John Wilkes) explained it (this might be one of the best takes ever when it comes to Nuggets & Jokic):

Spoiler

Now, look at Nuggets starting 5 being top-10 in Net ratings:

Spoiler

It’s a scam.

This is a highly compelling argument. It doesn't even have to be on purpose, could just be the byproduct of unimaginative coaching. But damn this is hard to disprove

@Kenny West the same person that posted (screenshotted another opinion) that propaganda of the abuse of stats for Jokic's MVP campaign also posted this -


Ain't it funny how it's genius how Giannis is abusing stats to get a triple double, but it's a problem when it's done in favor of Jokic.



This is why you've got to be careful with what folks post online because more often than not (I'd say 90% of the time) it's not coming from a honest place.

 

[Biscayne]

No [fake] Triple Double for Giannis. TheColi loses again.

This is sick breh. Why are you hell bent on letting one instance of statpadding dictate the narrative? Does this lessen Giannis impact?

You know cotdamn well this isn't the same thing. This is your argument(s) in a nutshell in here. Straight up arguing in bad faith.

I’ve heard the word “euro” being used multiple times in this thread by Giannis detractors/Jokic defenders. Ask your boys why they associate Jokic as the face of Euro basketball while Giannis is seen as “un-euro”.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

This is sick breh. Why are you hell bent on letting one instance of statpadding dictate the narrative? Does this lessen Giannis impact?

This is what happens when you're not paying attention to what is said on this board.

I’ve heard the word “euro” being used multiple times in this thread by Giannis detractors/Jokic defenders. Ask your boys why they associate Jokic as the face of Euro basketball while Giannis is seen as “un-euro”.

Your playing dumb act is boring now.

 

[Biscayne]

This is what happens when you're not paying attention to what is said on this board.

Your playing dumb act is boring now.

That one triple double would’ve had no impact on voting. Jokic gonna get his 3rd. Why are you pressed?