Fueled by Bribes, Somalia’s Election Seen as Milestone of Corruption (Farmaajo is Somali President!)

[Karb]

Its far more likely that Ethiopia will remain intact, than it will be for its Somali territory to break-off and join Somalia.

Its the 2017 not 1977 or even 1700. The world changes, nothing is static.The British, French, and Germans have a far longer history of emnity with each other but would anyone seriously suggest that the solution would be to rekindle those battles? This region was populated by Germans for centuries up till the mid 20th century, until they were mass deported by Stalin in the end of World War 2? Volga River - Wikipedia Would it be logical for Germans to declare war on Russia to unite ethnic German territory? Again if you stay using these old concepts to understand how to organize a state in the 21st century, you will go nowhere.

The Tigray project is already beginning to crack. Both oromos, Amharas and Somalis are seeking more self-determination. There are going to be some very rapid changes in the next few years.

I don't want an unstable Ethiopia next door to my country so I'm not wishing for an Ethiopian civil war. I do want the Ethiopian state to become more decentralized tho. If somali-Ethiopians are happy to stay in such a union, God bless em.

 

[Karb]

Im actually not, I'm ethnic Somali. @FAH1223 knows what I look like. Focus on my points, dont speculate with childish ad-hom.

If they are 15% of Somalis population (Somalia hasnt had a census since the 70s) it still goes against the popularly accepted idea that Somalia is homogenous. There are many states in Africa and elsewhere with ethnic minorities with smaller percentages and they don't subscribe to concepts of nationalism that are entirely wedded to ethnicity.

Straw-man argument. No somali believes that Somalia is 100% homogeneous. Not even the kacaan regime promoted that nonsense.

The overwhelming majority is pretty much indistinguishable culturally, linguistically and genetically.

Our divisions are mainly political.

Even the Maay speakers comprise a large group of assimilated Af-Maxatiri speakers.

 

[Breh13]

That clan shyt will forever haunt Somalia brehs.

 

[Karb]

That clan shyt will forever haunt Somalia brehs.

We shall overcome

Too many of y'all express pessimism under the guise of "realism". We need forward thinkers.

Constructive criticism is welcome tho.

 

[thatrapsfan]

The Tigray project is already beginning to crack. Both oromos, Amharas and Somalis are seeking more self-determination. There are going to be some very rapid changes in the next few years.

I don't want an unstable Ethiopia next door to my country so I'm not wishing for an Ethiopian civil war. I do want the Ethiopian state to become more decentralized tho. If somali-Ethiopians are happy to stay in such a union, God bless em.

Actually the Somali region in Ethiopia is one of the TPLFs biggest allies now. Its been much less turbulent in recent years, probably more quiet than ever. Unlike Oromo region and Amhara region, Somali region didnt see big political protests.

Their political leadership has been very loud in their support of the central government during Oromo protests. The TPLF strategy has been to invest more in the Somali region and give them more autonomy, to gain an ally against their opposition from the Amharas and Oromos. The ONLF has lost a lot of support as a result of the new money. Anyone keeping pace with news there would confirm this.

I agree people should have the right to self-determination, I havent argued otherwise.

 

[Trajan]

concepts of nationalism that are entirely wedded to ethnicity.

I agree with most of your points but Somalia is pretty homogenous breh. 85% ethnically Somali? (est)

100% Sunni Muslim? <----only a handful of countries in the world claim that.

Even language. You mentioned Maay but there are countries in Africa where the languages are so diverse the only way citizens can communicate is through a third language most likely a colonial one like French and English. Somalis in Somalia communicate in Somali.

But I do agree we need to push for a peaceful coexistence with the neighbours. The question is would we even get to that stage? Ethiopia is scarred by the last time they had a strong Somali state on its doorstep. Ever since then they have been very hands on with regard to Somali affairs with boots on the ground, agents in Villa Somalia and dividing and conquering everyone by backing rival factions. They don't want to take that chance and find out if we will be peaceful or not. They would rather keep us on our knees.

 

[thatrapsfan]

Straw-man argument. No somali believes that Somalia is 100% homogeneous. Not even the kacaan regime promoted that nonsense.

The overwhelming majority is pretty much indistinguishable culturally, linguistically and genetically.

Our divisions are mainly political.

Even the Maay speakers comprise a large group of assimilated Af-Maxatiri speakers.

You just used a strawman to try to dismiss my argument ( you must be an cadcad etc), then try to say I'm using a strawman.

You're being dishonest if you're claiming the whole concept of Somaliweyne isnt about Somalia being a homogenous country.

Why else would it argue that territories where Somalis live should be united?

This isnt even considering the fact that non-Somali ethnic groups live in the NFD, Djibouti, and Somali region of Ethiopia. Should it be taken for granted that they should be united with Somalia, as the Somaliweyne concept suggests? These are entirely credible questions about the concept of Pan-Somalia that Somalis rarely consider.

 

[Grano-Grano]

Ethiopia must fall once and for all. They are a existential threat to our sovereignity. They (Habashi) won't rest til they assimilated us. This beef is long time coming. Ethiopians think of us as nomadic nobodies with no civilization. They realize how fortunate we are due to resources. And they have no seaports. Plus Sudan and Egypt hate them as well. First 10-15 needs to be redeveloping the country and bringing into modern world. Look at Rwanda and how fast they moved on in 20 years as a country. Then we use the oil money and rearm to the teeth and destory them. We also should try to gain military superiority over all the Horn and Emirates. Back to the medieval era where the world kissed our ring.

 

[Karb]

Actually the Somali region in Ethiopia is one of the TPLFs biggest allies now. Its been much less turbulent in recent years, probably more quiet than ever. Unlike Oromo region and Amhara region, Somali region didnt see big political protests.

Their political leadership has been very loud in their support of the central government during Oromo protests. The TPLF strategy has been to invest more in the Somali region and give them more autonomy, to gain an ally against their opposition from the Amharas and Oromos. The ONLF has lost a lot of support as a result of the new money. Anyone keeping pace with news there would confirm this.

I agree people should have the right to self-determination, I havent argued otherwise.

I already know this, but Abdi Illey would not be supporting TPLF if he hadn't received some concessions. They seem to have more autonomy than they've had in years.

But let's not forget that the somali minority consists of more clans than Illey's sub-clan, which isn't even backed by all Ogadens.

 

[thatrapsfan]

I agree with most of your points but Somalia is pretty homogenous breh. 85% ethnically Somali? (est)

100% Sunni Muslim? <----only a handful of countries in the world claim that.

Even language. You mentioned Maay but there are countries in Africa where the languages are so diverse the only way citizens can communicate is through a third language most likely a colonial one like French and English. Somalis in Somalia communicate in Somali.

But I do agree we need to push for a peaceful coexistence with the neighbours. The question is would we even get to that stage? Ethiopia is scarred by the last time they had a strong Somali state on its doorstep. Ever since then they have been very hands on with regard to Somali affairs with boots on the ground, agents in Villa Somalia and dividing and conquering everyone by backing rival factions. They don't want to take that chance and find out if we will be peaceful or not. They would rather keep us on our knees.

A lot of these facts arent as remarkable when broken down and compared to other situations. Libya and Tunisia, for example, are both 100 percent Sunni, speak the same language, have similar Berber heritage yet uniting the two countries isn't considered an obvious goal.

Hell look at Senegal and Gambia, which are even more similar than Somalia and Djibouti, and their union failed. There's nothing straight forward about considering political federations solely through ethnicity or religion.

As for your last paragraph, no disagreement, but this can be negated by Somali politicians who could be able to leverage our position and reach real political reconciliation domestically. I remain of the belief that the main hurdle we face is our own politics, before foreign influence.

 

[Karb]

You just used a strawman to try to dismiss my argument ( you must be an cadcad etc), then try to say I'm using a strawman.

You're being dishonest if you're claiming the whole concept of Somaliweyne isnt about Somalia being a homogenous country.

Why else would it argue that territories where Somalis live should be united?

This isnt even considering the fact that non-Somali ethnic groups live in the NFD, Djibouti, and Somali region of Ethiopia. Should it be taken for granted that they should be united with Somalia, as the Somaliweyne concept suggests? These are entirely credible questions about the concept of Pan-Somalia that Somalis rarely consider.

Sxb you're entire argument is based around the fact that we have minorities living amongst us, even though they only constitute about 15%.

Are you claiming that the kacaan regime was claiming that there were no cadcads, Bantus etc even though they were counted in the freaking census?

We're a largely homogenous ppl breh, deal with it

Even the minorities have pretty much been somalized

 

[Karb]

I agree with most of your points but Somalia is pretty homogenous breh. 85% ethnically Somali? (est)

100% Sunni Muslim? <----only a handful of countries in the world claim that.

Even language. You mentioned Maay but there are countries in Africa where the languages are so diverse the only way citizens can communicate is through a third language most likely a colonial one like French and English. Somalis in Somalia communicate in Somali.

But I do agree we need to push for a peaceful coexistence with the neighbours. The question is would we even get to that stage? Ethiopia is scarred by the last time they had a strong Somali state on its doorstep. Ever since then they have been very hands on with regard to Somali affairs with boots on the ground, agents in Villa Somalia and dividing and conquering everyone by backing rival factions. They don't want to take that chance and find out if we will be peaceful or not. They would rather keep us on our knees.

Ethiopia was antagonistic even before '77. This nikka is talking as if this conflict is one-sided. We're currently the ones who are being stiffed by xabashis.

 

[thatrapsfan]

I already know this, but Abdi Illey would not be supporting TPLF if he hadn't received some concessions. They seem to have more autonomy than they've had in years.

But let's not forget that the somali minority consists of more clans than Illey's sub-clan, which isn't even backed by all Ogadens.

I know, I pointed out the concessions in my post.

The same stuff about subclan support can also be said about the ONLF today. Many non-Ogaden Somalis, non-Somalis in the region end up preferring a federated Ethiopia as well. Ethiopia's future is a decentralized one, but I dont see it breaking up on a mass scale.

 

[Karb]

A lot of these facts arent as remarkable when broken down and compared to other situations. Libya and Tunisia, for example, are both 100 percent Sunni, speak the same language, have similar Berber heritage yet uniting the two countries isn't considered an obvious goal.

Hell look at Senegal and Gambia, which are even more similar than Somalia and Djibouti, and their union failed. There's nothing straight forward about considering political federations solely through ethnicity or religion.

As for your last paragraph, no disagreement, but this can be negated by Somali politicians who could be able to leverage our position and reach real political reconciliation domestically. I remain of the belief that the main hurdle we face is our own politics, before foreign influence.

You need stop being so regressive sxb. You know as well as I do that there is no logical reason to carve up the country more than it already has been. Once you unleash this kind of thinking, every sub-sub-sub-clan will demand independence. Bal take your argument to its logical conclusion ninyow.

We need unification and reconciliation, not to be stuck on this xoolonimo that you're preaching under the guise of "real politik".

This nikka is arguing for Ethiopia, a country with vast ethnic, cultural and religious differences, to stay united and wants every Somali tuulo to claim independence.. because.. you know.. "kacaan propaganda"

 

[thatrapsfan]

Sxb you're entire argument is based around the fact that we have minorities living amongst us, even though they only constitute about 15%.

Are you claiming that the kacaan regime was claiming that there were no cadcads, Bantus etc even though they were counted in the freaking census?

We're a largely homogenous ppl breh, deal with it

Even the minorities have pretty much been somalized

Your argument basically amounts to ethnic Somalis are the majority of Somalia's population. This doesnt even remotely address what I pointed out and isnt even a disagreement.

Its well documented that the Kacaan overplayed the homogenous nature of the country, to push the goal to unite those territories. Link me to a census from that government that acknowledged the country had minorities. Trust me it doesnt exist. Hell those censuses were manipulated in terms of population makeup of the regions, never mind anything else.

Go look at what they used to say in diplomatic correspondence or speeches to the OAU. They always claimed the country was entirely homogenous and as a result should be awarded the NFD and Ogaden. This is hardly controversial.

Anyway Im out for now, w. Im still happy about the result today