Fueled by Bribes, Somalia’s Election Seen as Milestone of Corruption (Farmaajo is Somali President!)

[Karb]

It's a mark of how potent Barre era propaganda was that Somalis still have delusions of grandeur about Somaliweyn. People act like it's some religious right to have territories where ethnic Somalis live under one country, on some Israeli biblical promise shyt

No one ever stops to ask why this must be the case. How many countries in Africa have ethnic groups living across multiple countries? Do each deserve independent country? Must the Fulanis(who have a similar nomadic lifestyle) spread over like 7 countries have to have a Fulania? The whole logic of Somaliweyne collapses when you recognize that Somalia is actually a multiethnic country. Some would even say multilingual.

The problem is Barre-era propaganda brainwashed people into believing Somali citizenship and Somali ethnicity is the same thing. It's not. A Somali in Ethiopia or Kenya or Djibouti is no different than a Fulani in Senegal or Nigeria or Mali. We can recognize the obvious cultural bonds and familial ties without agitating for a seperate country as if it's promised in the Quran.

Sxb you're being very delusional tbh. Somaliland would become a country of 3 million ppl, which neighbors Ethiopia which has 95 million people. Somalis in total are no more than 15-20 million people. If your wet-dream becomes true, we would have 15-20 mio people split across at least 5 countries (possibly more, if other regions follow suit and leave the Union alongside Somaliland). Do you realize the level of xoolonimo/neefnimo/Doqonimo it would be to follow this pathetic course of action? You would end up with a bunch of insignificant Djiboutis who are at the mercy of bigger nations at all times.

Furthermore, who is to guarantee that Somaliland and other regions wouldn't split into further qabiil fiefdoms? There is no end to this BS. There are already some serious cracks that are starting to appear in Somaliland between the major tribes (Garhajis, Habar Jeclo, Habar Awal). You do not understand how clannism functions sxb. In the absence of "foreign" enemies, they turn on one another. All the major tribes in Somalia are beginning to show major cracks.

There are cracks within hawiye, darod and Isaaq. Heck even on a sub-clan level! All of these frictions carry the potential of erupting into full blown wars. So where does the madness end?

It's pathetic that Europeans can slaughter one another for centuries yet eventually unite based on mutual interests, yet we are willing to divide ourselves based on a civil war.

There is absolutely no denying that it is in our best interest to learn to live together.

 

[Trajan]

Turkey has its own agenda, but has been very useful in helping to train the Somali army as well as investing in the country. The khaleej is our biggest trade partner,

Big time. They have been a huge help.

Somalia was basically forgotten until Papa Erdogan stepped off the plane with this FM and family. Conveniently Western power suddenly went on alert and began taking us more seriously in order to check Turkey's ambitions there.

We need more things like that....a diversified alliance. If different partners are competing for influence then we win by getting better terms.

And if we're going to be under the sphere of influence of another country, it might as well be a major power with pull who can provide tangible assistance. Not third rate powers like Uganda and Ethiopia. Currently we're signed to one nikka who's signed to another nikka who's signed to another nikka

 

[Karb]

I take everything back this united celebration gives me hope it really does.

Don't despair sxb. We all we got

 

[Entropy Fan]

Big time. They have been a huge help.

Somalia was basically forgotten until Papa Erdogan stepped off the plane with this FM and family. Conveniently Western power suddenly went on alert and began taking us more seriously in order to check Turkey's ambitions there.

We need more things like that....a diversified alliance. If different partners are competing for influence then we win by getting better terms.

And if we're going to be under the sphere of influence of another country, it might as well be a major power with pull who can provide tangible assistance. Not third rate powers like Uganda and Ethiopia. Currently we're signed to one nikka who's signed to another nikka who's signed to another nikka

Well some of those powers wish you harm. Might be better to avoid them then to tangle with them to get better deals

Snake can't kill you unless you let it get close

 

[Karb]

Big time. They have been a huge help.

Somalia was basically forgotten until Papa Erdogan stepped off the plane with this FM and family. Conveniently Western power suddenly went on alert and began taking us more seriously in order to check Turkey's ambitions there.

We need more things like that....a diversified alliance. If different partners are competing for influence then we win by getting better terms.

And if we're going to be under the sphere of influence of another country, it might as well be a major power with pull who can provide tangible assistance. Not third rate powers like Uganda and Ethiopia. Currently we're signed to one nikka who's signed to another nikka who's signed to another nikka

Indeed breh. One thing that Siad Barre did right was to play Russians and Americans against each other.

Nikka had both superpowers arming him and shyt

If it wasn't for '77 and the subsequent fukkery, he'd a be a genius of a strategist.

We need to explore our options

 

[Trajan]

The MPs did not vote along clan lines. If anything thats something to be happy about.

Not only that kudos to Hassan Sheikh for conceding early.

In the second round of voting, Farmajo won an astounding 184 votes. His opponents, Hassan Sheikh Mohamud and Sheikh Sharif Ahmed trailed far behind and had a 119 combined votes.

Initially, a third round of voting was set to take place but minutes before the vote Hassan Sheikh Mohamud announced that he will gracefully concede the election to a roaring applause.

He needs props for that. A lot of African leaders struggle with this part.

He could've dragged it out for another round but did the right thing just like Sharif did before him. What's important is the sanctity of the process. Back to back peaceful elections becoming the norm is beautiful. Candidates shake hands and KIM.

 

[Karb]

Well some of those powers wish you harm. Might be better to avoid them then to tangle with them to get better deals

Snake can't kill you unless you let it get close

They all want to use us somehow sxb.. We can't avoid these fukkers interfering with us. But having options, gives us more leverage.

In a perfect world, we would slowly but surely develop our own country with zero foreign interference. But our strategic location+resources are a blessing and a curse. We cannot avoid some level of interference. It's about looking for the best deal and maximizing leverage until you no longer need these scum. We also need to minimize their harmful effects.

 

[Karb]

If our only option is the Westerners, then we can say hello to another decade of being AMISOM's bytch, some IMF loans with all kinds of BS strings attached (SAP's) which will destroy our local industries and flood our markets with cheap grain etc.. we have to be realistic.

 

[Entropy Fan]

They all want to use us somehow sxb.. We can't avoid these fukkers interfering with us. But having options, gives us more leverage.

In a perfect world, we would slowly but surely develop our own country with zero foreign interference. But our strategic location+resources are a blessing and a curse. We cannot avoid some level of interference. It's about looking for the best deal and maximizing leverage until you no longer need these scum. We also need to minimize their harmful effects.

I'm not disagreeing . Just saying certain countries want something but offer something in return. Some countries just want to harm u (uae) . The latter group should be avoided

 

[thatrapsfan]

Sxb you're being very delusional tbh. Somaliland would become a country of 3 million ppl, which neighbors Ethiopia which has 95 million people. Somalis in total are no more than 15-20 million people. If your wet-dream becomes true, we would have 15-20 mio people split across at least 5 countries (possibly more, if other regions follow suit and leave the Union alongside Somaliland). Do you realize the level of xoolonimo/neefnimo/Doqonimo it would be to follow this pathetic course of action? You would end up with a bunch of insignificant Djiboutis who are at the mercy of bigger nations at all times.

Furthermore, who is to guarantee that Somaliland and other regions wouldn't split into further qabiil fiefdoms? There is no end to this BS. There are already some serious cracks that are starting to appear in Somaliland between the major tribes (Garhajis, Habar Jeclo, Habar Awal). You do not understand how clannism functions sxb. In the absence of "foreign" enemies, they turn on one another. All the major tribes in Somalia are beginning to show major cracks.

There are cracks within hawiye, darod and Isaaq. Heck even on a sub-clan level! All of these frictions carry the potential of erupting into full blown wars. So where does the madness end?

It's pathetic that Europeans can slaughter one another for centuries yet eventually unite based on mutual interests, yet we are willing to divide ourselves based on a civil war.

There is absolutely no denying that it is in our best interest to learn to live together.

You missed the point.I know how clanism work, it has nothing to do with my post. Its not whether Somaliland or whatever else is a viable independent country.

Its about the idea of nationalism based on ethnicity on its own. They are two different things that we've melded together. Start from an understanding that Somalia is not homogenous then you will understand my point. The South, which is a huge part of the country both in terms of population and geographic landmass, has different ethnicities, has completely different dialects ( some would argue Af Maay is its own language) and diverse cultural traditions.

The whole premise that Somalia is ethnically and culturally homogenous is a false one. Acknowledging this isnt a bad thing. We dont need to all have the same ethnicity and the exact same cultural practices to be successful. By the same token it also means that uniting all places where ethnic Somalis live, is not a guarantee for success. In fact as our recent history shows, it was recipe for unmitigated disaster for a poor country to focus all its efforts on a military buildup to regain territory from its much larger neighbour. There is no logical reason to think the main target of a rebuilding country with massive challenges, should be to repeat this again.

 

[Karb]

Your country Im not Ethiopian. Take it easy on the internet realpolitik where everything is zero-sum game. The first step to fixing Somalia is acknowledging its limitations. Why would it be in Somalia's interest to blockade the access of the biggest economy in the region to the sea? The whole point of the geographic location being attractive, is to leverage it.

Do you seriously think it's in China's interest to build infrastructure in Somalia that doesnt allow it to access Ethiopia ? The same China that just built a railway from Ethiopia to Djibouti? Ethiopia's political leadership will eventually change but the country, its population, and its economic potential wont. It will always be next door no matter what strategy you pursue. One that's focused on war or tries to take cues from 10 centuries ago or from Barre regime that left country in economic ruin is destined to fail.

We need to normalize relations with Ethiopia, but you're delusional if you think that in the long run Ethiopia will remain intact as a country. They have deep ethnic, religious and political divisions that guarantee instability until some kind of permanent solution is found.

Ethiopia has always had an antagonistic relationship with Somalis sxb. It's not like Somalis just woke up one day and decided to hate Ethiopia. Even if we manage to normalize relations with them it will only be for a short period of time. Ethiopian hardliners still dream of a "greater Abyssinia" which includes most of Somalia. They see a strong Muslim somali state as an existential threat, which is quite ironic since historically the xabashis have always been the aggressors in the region (the Adal wars were initially defensive wars against Christian encroachment).

 

[Karb]

You missed the point.I know how clanism work, it has nothing to do with my post. Its not whether Somaliland or whatever else is a viable independent country.

Its about the idea of nationalism based on ethnicity on its own. They are two different things that we've melded together. Start from an understanding that Somalia is not homogenous then you will understand my point. The South, which is a huge part of the country both in terms of population and geographic landmass, has different ethnicities, has completely different dialects ( some would argue Af Maay is its own language) and diverse cultural traditions.

The whole premise that Somalia is ethnically and culturally homogenous is a false one. Acknowledging this isnt a bad thing. We dont need to all have the same ethnicity and the exact same cultural practices to be successful. By the same token it also means that uniting all places where ethnic Somalis live, is not a guarantee for success. In fact as our recent history shows, it was recipe for unmitigated disaster for a poor country to focus all its efforts on a military buildup to regain territory from its much larger neighbour. There is no logical reason to think the main target of a rebuilding country with massive challenges, should be to repeat this again.

Cut the crap sxb, the vast majority of Somalis are from the same ethnic group. The cadcads, Bantus and Maay speakers are no more than 15% of the population.

I'm guessing you're from a minority ethnic group

In which case, a divided Somalia would benefit your ppl

 

[thatrapsfan]

We need to normalize relations with Ethiopia, but you're delusional if you think that in the long run Ethiopia will remain intact as a country. They have deep ethnic, religious and political divisions that guarantee instability until some kind of permanent solution is found.

Ethiopia has always had an antagonistic relationship with Somalis sxb. It's not like Somalis just woke up one day and decided to hate Ethiopia. Even if we manage to normalize relations with them it will only be for a short period of time. Ethiopian hardliners still dream of a "greater Abyssinia" which includes most of Somalia. They see a strong Muslim somali state as an existential threat, which is quite ironic since historically the xabashis have always been the aggressors in the region (the Adal wars were initially defensive wars against Christian encroachment).

Its far more likely that Ethiopia will remain intact, than it will be for its Somali territory to break-off and join Somalia.

Its the 2017 not 1977 or even 1700. The world changes, nothing is static.The British, French, and Germans have a far longer history of emnity with each other but would anyone seriously suggest that the solution would be to rekindle those battles? This region was populated by Germans for centuries up till the mid 20th century, until they were mass deported by Stalin in the end of World War 2? Volga River - Wikipedia Would it be logical for Germans to declare war on Russia to unite ethnic German territory? Again if you stay using these old concepts to understand how to organize a state in the 21st century, you will go nowhere.

 

[Karb]

I don't support an all-out war with Ethiopia (it would harm both countries). But the Somali people in Ethiopia have the right to decide their future. Same with the minority in Kenya. Nobody knows how the world looks 10-20-50 years from now. Just look at how everything has changed within the past decade alone. Anything is possible

 

[thatrapsfan]

Cut the crap sxb, the vast majority of Somalis are from the same ethnic group. The cadcads, Bantus and Maay speakers are no more than 15% of the population.

I'm guessing you're from a minority ethnic group

In which case, a divided Somalia would benefit your ppl

Im actually not, I'm ethnic Somali. @FAH1223 knows what I look like. Focus on my points, dont speculate with childish ad-hom.

If they are 15% of Somalis population (Somalia hasnt had a census since the 70s) it still goes against the popularly accepted idea that Somalia is homogenous. There are many states in Africa and elsewhere with ethnic minorities with smaller percentages and they don't subscribe to concepts of nationalism that are entirely wedded to ethnicity.