Forced to focus on the things that really matter.

[No_bammer_weed]

Bingo. As someone who works around alot of Indians they are extremly family oriented. they make sure to help each other out.

Well, that goes without saying. There is a major difference between a group of people who immigrated here willingly, or stayed in their own country thus preserving ties and bonding, versus a group of people ripped from their homeland, enslaved, beaten, abused, lynched, and forbade to engage with their cultural history or knowledge for centuries, dont you think? What exactly is our culture supposed to consist of outside of existing in a land where the dominant group hates us, and holds almost all the keys to our success?


We are in the 5th decade of being treated with even the slightest bit of dignity and legislative support, after four centuries of brutal discrimination. Thats not to mention the social and economic mistreatment that is still in place, which limits black mobility and success. Its obviously going to take a minute before black people establish their economic and cultural worth and stability as a whole. You cant wave a magic wand here.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

A great educational system can only do so much if a parent isn't able to be fully immersed in the process.

This isn't to say there shouldn't be a more equitable distribution of resources.

But to act like parenting has no effect on a child's educational outcome, or to demonize people who bring up the effects that our choices have on our kids is ridiculous. The system is fukked up, but someone who has a kid w/no family or financial foundation to raise them is doing more damage than anything in the system could do.

Who said parenting had no effect? I didn't

I haven't demonized anyone either.

The only reason I speak out when black people say this is because its the same excuse that's used to justify the unfair treatment our kids get. It's common sense that parents have a profound effect on their kids. There is no reason to even bring that point up when taking about inequality in the educational system.

Bad parenting doesn't justify our kids not getting quality educations. Y'all bringing up parenting only strengthens the sentiment that our kids deserve less. And I will never agree with that.

 

[Will Ross]

People need to stop trying to comapre struggle. Plenty of kid in Thoes places don't make it either to act like all of them focus on school is silly .

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Good schools have students with behavior problems, but not as many, because more of them come from a more stable home life, and when you call the parent about behavior issues, it is mostly handled at home. Isolating the bad ass kids within a well funded, but historically low performing school would mean isolating a larger percent of the students, mostly boys. When they have non existing, uncooperative, abusive foster or incarcerated parents who cuss out the teacher for calling them about behavior issues, what do you do for these kids next? Give them more "time and space"? What behavior modification lessons will resonate when it is not reinforced in their home?

My mother would have to deal with a large amount of her 7 year olds coming to school with no shoes, coats, or clean underwear. They hadn't eaten meals outside of the school cafeteria, they don't know which family member's couch they will crash that night, and they watched their parents commit all sorts of crimes/drugs and be arrested. These weren't just some of her kids, it was a big percentage every year. No child in that situation is going to excel in a well funded school of crispy textbooks and glossy computers. They are too emotionally distracted and their priorities are just on making it through the day.

Teachers, textbooks and technology can't be expected to replace the effects of poverty on a child's education.

Isn't all of this reasons that they should be given more resources, not less?

 

[Blackout]

While I'm not trying to downplay poverty in the low class of America, the extent of poverty in say...Mumbai or Lagos slums is incomprehensible to the western mind, yes even to the lower class of America.

I mean You'll hear Beans talking about eating fried vegetables as if that's meant to be a bad thing, or BIG (RIP) rapping about eating sardines for dinner, like that's supposed to be a travesty, I like these rappers, but...really? That is a luxury that is only attained by the higher class in a third world country.

I chose those two lyric snippets because, in a rap song that was meant to illustrate poverty in America, it perfectly illustrates the gap between poverty as its known in the west and poverty as its known in third world countries

You still end up downplaying it anyway by comparing it to the third world countries.

You sit here and scoff at ones poverty claim cuz some got it worse yet its still shyt no matter if another shyt stinks more.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

This is how you come off.

No it's not. When have i said anything about history. I'm talking about today, right now. Our kids get less resources/opportunities and they also achieve less, don't you think those two facts are related in some way?

 

[Data-Hawk]

Well, that goes without saying. There is a major difference between a group of people who immigrated here willingly, or stayed in their own country thus preserving ties and bonding, versus a group of people ripped from their homeland, enslaved, beaten, abused, lynched, and forbade to engage with their cultural history or knowledge for centuries, dont you think? What exactly is our culture supposed to consist of outside of existing in a land where the dominant group hates us, and holds almost all the keys to our success?


We are in the 5th decade of being treated with even the slightest bit of dignity and legislative support, after four centuries of brutal discrimination. Thats not to mention the social and economic mistreatment that is still in place, which limits black mobility and success. Its obviously going to take a minute before black people establish their economic and cultural worth and stability as a whole. You cant wave a magic wand here.

I agree with this 200%.

 

[Rawtid]

No it's not. When have i said anything about history. I'm talking about today, right now. Our kids get less resources/opportunities and tge also achieve less, don't you think those two facts are related in some way?

Why are you so convinced that resources are the issue?

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Why are you so convinced that resources are the issue?

Because they are. Studies have shown it. Everyday reality proves it. Yet people such as yourself still ignore it. Why?

 

[HoustonHeat]

Isn't all of this reasons that they should be given more resources, not less?

Would more resources to alleviate family and poverty issues in those neighborhoods assist? Yes. But school resources is not the answer to fixing home life.

 

[Data-Hawk]

No it's not. When have i said anything about history. I'm talking about today, right now. Our kids get less resources/opportunities and they also achieve less, don't you think those two facts are related in some way?

For the record, of course the school the kid goes to is important. I just feel the parent plays a bigger role.

 

[Rem]

You still end up downplaying it anyway by comparing it to the third world countries.

You sit here and scoff at ones poverty claim cuz some got it worse yet its still shyt no matter if another shyt stinks more.

I'm not downplaying it, rather saying it puts things into perspective, and can be used as a motivational vehicle if anything. I used the BIG and beans lines because it shows how relative the term "poverty" is, and how the development of the west has blurred the reality of what poverty really is.

You have kids that went to public schools of the same settings as those in the OP in india or whatever, yet turn out to not only make their way out of those extremely poor conditions, but turn into doctors, lawyers and engineers that make a very good living, one that betters a lot of westerners that had much better infrastructure growing up.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Would more resources to alleviate family and poverty issues in those neighborhoods assist? Yes. But school resources is not the answer to fixing home life.

No one is trying to fix home life. You can't teach poor uneducated parents how to stop being poor and uneducated. The cycle has to be stopped with the kids.

Obviously some kids will perform better than others, but why are you against bringing more resources to the kids that would benefit the most from them?

 

[Blackout]

I'm not downplaying it, rather saying it puts things into perspective, and can be used as a motivational vehicle if anything. I used the BIG and beans lines because it shows how relative the term "poverty" is, and how the development of the west has blurred the reality of what poverty really is.

You have kids that went to public schools of the same settings as those in the OP in india or whatever, yet turn out to not only make their way out of those extremely poor conditions, but turn into doctors, lawyers and engineers that make a very good living, one that betters a lot of westerners that had much better infrastructure growing up.

It is a good motivational vehicle and also opens the eyes of the lower class in the US but it does nothing to open the eyes if the upper class of the US. It could actually ending up promoting them to close their eyes and give them a excuse to not take US poverty seriously.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

It is, only when comparing them to their own peers. Two students that go to the same school, obviously the one with the better support will do better.

But that's not the comparison we make. If we are only comparing our achievment to ourselves then we are doing phenomenal right now compared to 10-20-30 years ago.

This argument goes well beyond teaching people self responsibilty, because the argument is used to determine what resources our kids get. White schools have an acheivment problem and the city/country wants to know what the school can do to fix it. Black school has problems and the answer is automaticaly "blame the parents" and nothing gets done. It really bothers me that a lot of you can't see this.


That's just the thing. You can't control what these parents do in their home. But we can effect the resources the kids are offered outside of their home. We can effect the legislation that determines what our kids will/won't get.

Poor uneducated people are just that, poor and uneducated. You can't expect them to change that reality because you said they should. The sole purpose of school is to allow those from humble beginnings to achieve greatness, but the current education system not only fails at that goal but it actualy makes things worse for the students that need it most.

The idea that a school is supposed to be able to uplift a kid out of any circumstance w/no input from parents is ridiculous. You claim that this is not what you are saying, but then place all the blame/responsibility for a kid's success on the school they go to, which is the exact same thing

Ideally you would have both. But if either piece is missing the kid is not going to do well. You are trying to absolve the parents of blame/responsibility for personal reasons.

Bad parenting doesn't justify our kids not getting quality educations.

Find 1 quote in this thread of someone saying this.

In fact, in the post of mine you just quoted, I said the exact opposite.

Stop putting words in nikkas mouths to create a convenient point to argue.