Forced to focus on the things that really matter.

[Rawtid]

You are oversimplying the issue to be about books and computers. It's about overall educational resources, books and computers are just physical representations of that, But in no way are they the end all be all when talking about advantages kids get from going to quality sufficiently funded schools.

Like I told you before algebra and reading is not what makes a kid succesful. Damn there everyone knows that stuff, that's not what schools teach. If all kids needed to learn were basic math and reading poor kids would be doing great. Hell, my 7 year old daughter can read, write, and do math. Is she ready for the world?

It's a false dichotomy that y'all create when you say "parenting is most important....."

When comparing acheivment you always compare poor black kids to their well off white counterparts with educated parents, and say overall they are underachieving.

Then when it comes time for a solution you compare them to their own peers and say "the ones that do well have better parenting" which is common sense. But what you leave out is that the kids with the best parents from the "poor" schools never do as well as the kids with the best parents from a good school. Just like the kids with the worst parents still do worse than those kids at a quality school.

All schools have a range of acheivment which is mostly determined by the parents. That doesn't change the fact that schools that are funded and run well always outperform underfunded shytty schools.

You take poor kids who come from nothing, you give them nothing, and you act surprised when they achieve less.

at you for continuing to push this agenda the white folks gave you that our kids don't deserve quality schools

I'm not reading all that shyt but over simplfying? Son, I haven't even went into any details. This is how conversations go with you guys:

Me: You can still drive a car with the brake light out

Yall: YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CARS OR THE HISTORY OF BRAKE LIGHTS!!!

LMMFAO!! Then I get a history lesson that has nothing to do with my original point. YOU can't even disagree that new textbooks and computers don't have jack shyt to do with poor kids lagging behind educationally.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Parents don't dictate educational achievement of their kids by themselves, mass parental support allows teachers, technology, and tools to do a better job for the student.

Right, and if the teachers, tools, and technology suck or are non-existent then the students will achieve less than those who got quality teachers/tools/tech regardless of parental involvement.

Parents send their kids to "better" schools because "bad" schools have teachers that are usually overwhelmed by the bad ass kids (from unstable households) whose basic reading/math levels are so low that the teacher can never really challenge the better educated kids (because she has to dumb it down for everyone)

So you think "good" schools don't have "bad" students

That's what I mean by students needing resources. A well funded school has the resources to give those "bad ass kids" time and space to themselves, so they can get better and also to reduce their effect on the other kids. A school without those resources fails both sets of kids, because they can't give the "bad" ones the attention they need, and the good ones are held back by the teacher dealing with 30 students with wildly varying needs. So they ALL achieve less than they would have in a better funded and run school.

 

[Data-Hawk]

Algebra(breh) is Algebra. You can learn that shyt from an old ass book or a new one IF you want to learn it. Reading is reading, again you don't need anything new or a computer to learn it. Again, there are certainly other factors that hinder learning but new computers and textbooks isn't a reason.

I agree with this as well. For example I taught my 9 yr old son basic algebra, with just a pencil and paper(no books or computers ). but at the sametime I know most kids that come from the same place as me arent as lucky as my son.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I'm not reading all that shyt but over simplfying? Son, I haven't even went into any details. This is how conversations go with you guys:

Me: You can still drive a car with the brake light out

Yall: YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CARS OR THE HISTORY OF BRAKE LIGHTS!!!

LMMFAO!! Then I get a history lesson that has nothing to do with my original point. YOU can't even disagree that new textbooks and computers don't have jack shyt to do with poor kids lagging behind educationally.

Because its not about computers and textbooks. You used them as an example. But your overarching point was that poor kids would be able to achieve as much as their well-off counterparts if only they had parents that cared. And that line of thinking is pure bullshyt. That's what the white folks say to justify the continued inequality in educational resources and opportunity black kids get. Instead of examining why the schools are failing they just say "it's the parents" then they don't have to address the failures of the American school system. It pains me that they got nikkas like you so brainwashed that you agree with them that our kids don't deserve the best the American education system has to offer.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I agree with this as well. For example I taught my 9 yr old son basic algebra, with just a pencil and paper(no books or computers ). but at the sametime I know most kids that come from the same place as me arent as lucky as my son.

Is your son ready for the world?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

It's a false dichotomy that y'all create when you say "parenting is most important....."

It is though. And its not just parents saying 'hey do your homework'. Its parents positioning themselves to be a driver in their kid's educational outcome, and providing them w/the environment and resources to thrive. Thats not to downplay the external factors, but it is to not ignore the internal factors and choices we make that hurt our kids. You have kids w/o establishing a foundation through shyt like marrying the other parent and situating yourself financially, you are setting the kid up to fail. Whatever external factors there are don't matter- the two biggest factors, being who you have a kid with and when you have those kids, are completely within one's control.

I get + understand the anger of folks like @No bammer weed but at the same time if we only focus on what we can't control and downplay/ignore what we can we are doomed for failure

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Because its not about computers and textbooks. You used them as an example. But your overarching point was that poor kids would be able to achieve as much as their well-off counterparts if only they had parents that cared. And that line of thinking is pure bullshyt. That's what the white folks say to justify the continued inequality in educational resources and opportunity black kids get. Instead of examining why the schools are failing they just say "it's the parents" then they don't have to address the failures of the American school system. It pains me that they got nikkas like you so brainwashed that you agree with them that our kids don't deserve the best the American education system has to offer.

A great educational system can only do so much if a parent isn't able to be fully immersed in the process.

This isn't to say there shouldn't be a more equitable distribution of resources.

But to act like parenting has no effect on a child's educational outcome, or to demonize people who bring up the effects that our choices have on our kids is ridiculous. The system is fukked up, but someone who has a kid w/no family or financial foundation to raise them is doing more damage than anything in the system could do.

 

[Blackout]

Its not argued that certain children "cant learn", and I'll assume you're talking about black children here --- its instead challenging the social and economic inequities that control outcomes and probabilities of success.

Unlike improverished countries, America and the western world is organized around orthodox capitalism, i.e competition. It is irrational to expect black children, who on average grow up with 5% of the wealth of their white counterparts and attend schools that are far inferior in every way, to achieve the same level of success, on average, as others when the game is rigged.

This is compounded by the fact that even when a black child does the right things, he still wont be afforded the same level of opportunities. Empirical studies have shown that white men with felonies have a better chance at securing employment, than a black man with a clean record.

This isnt even touching on the 400 years of social conditioning, unique to this country, where the dominant class has re-enforced incessantly that certain lower classes are inherently evil, stupid, worthless, and lazy therefore controlling expectations and that group's collective psychology.

Must spread rep.

 

[Data-Hawk]

Is your son ready for the world?

Of course not. but its *my job*. to help prepare him for it. Its sad but i feel he already has an advantage because I am there for him. I can only name 1 other kid growing up with me that father was in thier household.

What kids learn in school hasnt really changed in the past 30-40 yrs. Computers dont help kids learn any better than a good parent. Which is why those kids come over here and do so well. Family values.

 

[Rawtid]

A great educational system can only do so much if a parent isn't able to be fully immersed in the process.

This isn't to say there shouldn't be a more equitable distribution of resources.

But to act like parenting has no effect on a child's educational outcome, or to demonize people who bring up the effects that our choices have on our kids is ridiculous. The system is fukked up, but someone who has a kid w/no family or financial foundation to raise them is doing more damage than anything in the system could do.

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE AND THEIR HISTORY!!

 

[MeachTheMonster]

It is though. And its not just parents saying 'hey do your homework'. Its parents positioning themselves to be a driver in their kid's educational outcome, and providing them w/the environment and resources to thrive. Thats not to downplay the external factors, but it is to not ignore the internal factors and choices we make that hurt our kids. You have kids w/o establishing a foundation through shyt like marrying the other parent and situating yourself financially, you are setting the kid up to fail. Whatever external factors there are don't matter- the two biggest factors, being who you have a kid with and when you have those kids, are completely within one's control.

It is, only when comparing them to their own peers. Two students that go to the same school, obviously the one with the better support will do better.

But that's not the comparison we make. If we are only comparing our achievment to ourselves then we are doing phenomenal right now compared to 10-20-30 years ago.

This argument goes well beyond teaching people self responsibilty, because the argument is used to determine what resources our kids get. White schools have an acheivment problem and the city/country wants to know what the school can do to fix it. Black school has problems and the answer is automaticaly "blame the parents" and nothing gets done. It really bothers me that a lot of you can't see this.

I get + understand the anger of folks like @No bammer weed but at the same time if we only focus on what we can't control and downplay/ignore what we can we are doomed for failure

That's just the thing. You can't control what these parents do in their home. But we can effect the resources the kids are offered outside of their home. We can effect the legislation that determines what our kids will/won't get.

Poor uneducated people are just that, poor and uneducated. You can't expect them to change that reality because you said they should. The sole purpose of school is to allow those from humble beginnings to achieve greatness, but the current education system not only fails at that goal but it actualy makes things worse for the students that need it most.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE AND THEIR HISTORY!!

who said this????

 

[HoustonHeat]

Right, and if the teachers, tools, and technology suck or are non-existent then the students will achieve less than those who got quality teachers/tools/tech regardless of parental involvement.


So you think "good" schools don't have "bad" students

That's what I mean by students needing resources. A well funded school has the resources to give those "bad ass kids" time and space to themselves, so they can get better and also to reduce their effect on the other kids. A school without those resources fails both sets of kids, because they can't give the "bad" ones the attention they need, and the good ones are held back by the teacher dealing with 30 students with wildly varying needs. So they ALL achieve less than they would have in a better funded and run school.

Good schools have students with behavior problems, but not as many, because more of them come from a more stable home life, and when you call the parent about behavior issues, it is mostly handled at home. Isolating the bad ass kids within a well funded, but historically low performing school would mean isolating a larger percent of the students, mostly boys. When they have non existing, uncooperative, abusive foster or incarcerated parents who cuss out the teacher for calling them about behavior issues, what do you do for these kids next? Give them more "time and space"? What behavior modification lessons will resonate when it is not reinforced in their home?

My mother would have to deal with a large amount of her 7 year olds coming to school with no shoes, coats, or clean underwear. They hadn't eaten meals outside of the school cafeteria, they don't know which family member's couch they will crash that night, and they watched their parents commit all sorts of crimes/drugs and be arrested. These weren't just some of her kids, it was a big percentage every year. No child in that situation is going to excel in a well funded school of crispy textbooks and glossy computers. They are too emotionally distracted and their priorities are just on making it through the day.

Teachers, textbooks and technology can't be expected to replace the effects of poverty on a child's education.

 

[Rawtid]

who said this????

This is how you come off.

 

[Data-Hawk]

But to act like parenting has no effect on a child's educational outcome, or to demonize people who bring up the effects that our choices have on our kids is ridiculous. The system is fukked up, but someone who has a kid w/no family or financial foundation to raise them is doing more damage than anything in the system could do.

You know what, i'll take it a step further, how well a kid does in school is 80% parent 20% school. If you take a look back at people who have had successful careers , most of the time their child is going to do well also.