European vs North American description of the Moors

[Swagnificent]

Now hold on a minute, a few pages back you were simplifying the world as Black and White but now you're coming with the "different phenotype", "black but not this type of black" and so on. You claimed that Filipinos and Sri Lankans are Black but now you're saying Northwestern and West Africans are not the same type of Black. Just as I thought you're making things up as you go along. Meanwhile this was my post way back on page 5 before you came in with your extreme view of the world.

your either a moron or trying to play dumb.

There are obviously different phenotypes of black people (just as there are different whites and asians). The Bushmen look different than the Maasai who look different than the Afar who look different than the Igbo. However, they are all quintessentially black. Our point isn't that all black people look the same. Our point is that blackness is just as diverse in phenotype as whiteness.

 

[MostReal]

I have hair like matt barnes, is he a moor

wow you really are the WOAT.

nikka you black

a black man whose folks were born in India

when is this @Van Taak going to accept his L

 

[Chesirecatdaddy]

That's all I been saying from the start but you got folk in here that'll have you believe Moors were strictly Black and that Berbers became whitewashed due to the Arabs and Barbary slave trade smh.

LOL dudes say this because of slavery perpetrated by greedy arabs who went against islam.. but it has no factual basis... yes at one point there were more dark berbers and at one point all arabs were black themselves...but they both then became a mixed bunch. berbers and arabs had many similarities before they even fought/befriended each other....both became a mixed bunch... I'm pretty sure the berbers were a mixed bunch first since the arabs had to get slavic slaves to become lighter.

 

[Ikwa]

@Swagnificent how are you going to answer the evidence in my last 3 long posts? when did the Berbers become whitewashed?

@iLLaV3 typical dumb nikka that sits on the sidelines, let the grown men talk.

 

[Chesirecatdaddy]

LOL dudes say this because of slavery perpetrated by greedy arabs who went against islam.. but it has no factual basis... yes at one point there were more dark berbers and at one point all arabs were black themselves...but they both then became a mixed bunch. berbers and arabs had many similarities before they even fought/befriended each other....both became a mixed bunch... I'm pretty sure the berbers were a mixed bunch first since the arabs had to get slavic slaves to become lighter. Berbers from the riff mountains and berbers who interacted with romans were always lighter

 

[Ikwa]

LOL dudes say this because of slavery perpetrated by greedy arabs who went against islam.. but it has no factual basis... yes at one point there were more dark berbers and at one point all arabs were black themselves...but they both then became a mixed bunch. berbers and arabs had many similarities before they even fought/befriended each other....both became a mixed bunch... I'm pretty sure the berbers were a mixed bunch first since the arabs had to get slavic slaves to become lighter.

Exactly. Any mixing that might have happened would have happened long before the time of the Moors.

Populations in Carthage circa 200 BC and northern Algeria 1500 BC were diverse.[citation needed] As a group, they plotted closest to the populations of Northern Egypt and intermediate to Northern Europeans and tropical Africans: "the data supported the comments from ancient authors observed by classicists: everything from fair-skinned blonds to peoples who were dark-skinned 'Ethiopian' or part Ethiopian in appearance."[40] Modern evidence shows a similar diversity among present North Africans. Moreover, this diversity of phenotypes and peoples was probably due to in situ differentiation, not foreign influxes.[citation needed] Foreign influxes are thought to have had an impact on population make-up, but did not replace the indigenous Berber population.[41]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors

 

[MostReal]

@Swagnificent how are you going to answer the evidence in my last 3 long posts? when did the Berbers become whitewashed?

@iLLaV3 typical dumb nikka that sits on the sidelines, let the grown men talk.

dude you've been sonned the entire thread, unfortunately you are too dumb to realize it. I'm just laughing at the way cacology works in your head...its so embedded that you calling black people not black....not believing your lying eyes

 

[Chesirecatdaddy]

dude you've been sonned the entire thread, unfortunately you are too dumb to realize it. I'm just laughing at the way cacology works in your head...its so embedded that you calling black people not black....not believing your lying eyes

some people on this board would not consider the people the darker moors mixed with, which produced lighter offspring, black. LOL and they wouldn't consider their offspring black... some but not all...so how do you proceed from there? However, I beleive most people would consider them black in this country save a select few. This is why race is stupid, Arabs didn't bother with race and neither did the Bedouins...but that's another discussion.

 

[Swagnificent]

@Swagnificent

We also have reports that those Berbers went to war with sub-saharan Africans in the 10th century.

Again we see a clear differentiation between Berbers and Black sub-saharan Africans. What will it take for you to understand that the region is complex and doesn't simply end at either black or white?

Notice how the Berbers (Masmuda tribes) and Blacks are once again differentiated? Why do they keep doing that if Berbers were predominantly Black themselves? Can you answer this? You're making me post things that I don't want to.

Again, Berbers and Blacks are clearly being differentiate. I'm sure you'd also believe that Kurdish people are Arabs...

Do you know how the Greeks and Romans used to describe the Germanic tribes to the north? How they differentiated themselves? Berbers and the africans to the south looked as different from each other as the Greeks did from the Germans. Are the Greeks a different race than the Germans in today's modern concept of race? And you can't use the cop out you used last time about the 2 groups being at war. You just admitted that the Berbers were at war with other Africans just like the Romans fought the Germanic tribes.

No one has ever suggested all black africans are the same. No one has suggested the Berbers were identical to their neighbors to the south. All we're saying is that they were black under the modern conception of black just as the Germans and Greeks are considered white.

 

[Swagnificent]

That post wasn't directed at you, I'm the one who said Moors had a mix of tanned and black skinned folks.

okay I have another question for you since you keep going on about there being a mix of Moors

what was the leadership primarily? was it 50% black, 50% tanned. or 90% tanned, 10% black, etc. cause every time I hear arguments like this for the Moors or Egyptians being mixed, the implication almost always is that the leadership was white (or tanned in your case) and it was the foot soldiers or slaves that were black.

 

[Chesirecatdaddy]

okay I have another question for you since you keep going on about there being a mix of Moors

what was the leadership primarily? was it 50% black, 50% tanned. or 90% tanned, 10% black, etc. cause every time I hear arguments like this for the Moors or Egyptians being mixed, the implication almost always is that the leadership was white (or tanned in your case) and it was the foot soldiers or slaves that were black.

Leadership goes by ability.... they didn't have that concept of race. Black, brown, red, white.... it's about who's the right man for the job. Leadership being white is a fukking fairytale and wishful thinking from those who beleive in racial supremacy.

 

[SkillClash]

tell me why cac Charles Martel beat the Moor's ass

 

[MostReal]

Leadership goes by ability.... they didn't have that concept of race. Black, brown, red, white.... it's about who's the right man for the job. Leadership being white is a fukking fairytale and wishful thinking from those who beleive in racial supremacy.

hey breh let @Van Taak answer don't for him

 

[Swagnificent]

@Swagnificent how are you going to answer the evidence in my last 3 long posts? when did the Berbers become whitewashed?

I know reading isn't your strong suit so I'll repost what I said earlier. It should answer this question.

http://www.africanark.org/berbersandmoors.html

According to James Prichard, Kabylia was a name of the mountainous areas of the north of Tunisia and Algeria and included those speaking the dialects called Showia. (See Researches into the Physical history of Mankind. Vol. II, 1851, p. 20) Colonial observers actually mention two distinct peoples of Kabylia, plus those who were a mixture between these. The ones described as dark brown and near black were said to live in Numidian type huts of the ancient Berbers called "Magalia". Others were of a different culture and appearance, quite fair in color, and according to recent scholars dress themselves and make jewelry and pottery like that of the early and modern inhabitants of the Balkans, Greeks and ancient Vandals. These fair skinned populations of the Algerian Kabyle area who speak the Berber dialects have palm prints and blood groupings which link them directly to the European peoples of the southern Mediterranean and are thus largely descendants of ancient and modern Europeans and Turks who have absorbed Berber or Kutama blood. Unlike the early matrifocal Berbers and modern Tuareg, they have also been documented as the most patrifocal people in Africa. (Algeria: A Country Study, 1985) The darker-skinned Kabyle groups mentioned above - "their complexion brown and sometimes nearly black" - are those whose origins belong to the ancient Berbers but, are almost never spoken of by modern observers. As stated by the colonialists, their culture is very different. Their dancing, for example, with rapid shoulder movement resembles that of modern Ethiopians and Eritraeans.

There you have it. Europeans in the 1800s basically breaking it down exactly as we've been saying so far. The light skin almost white looking berbers are groups that came from europe (through the slave trade and other means) that were absorbed into berber society. They were different culturally than the black berbers who retained a culture similar to modern day ethiopians and eritereans. People from the horn of africa that were called berbers as well in ancient times.

And if you read my other posts, almost every reference to the berbers before 1300 a.d. described then as black skinned.

 

[Chesirecatdaddy]

hey breh let @Van Taak answer don't for him

my bad didn't know it was that type of party just was eager to answer