ESPN Got Shaq In His Feelings...Throws Shots at DunGawd After Being Ranked Below Him

[murksiderock]

I put in the post before the one you quotes
I'm not basing my pick off what a whole team did

tim is more disciplined and has a better history vs shaq

but prime shaq is better in every category besides shooting... I think people are getting wrapped up in how THEY want to view this convo
it becomes an easy W for Tim because of the team history. I'm talking about straight up playing, I dont think Tim is making it through a whole 1v1 game against shaq

my example would be ... Klay Thompson is one of the greatest shooters of all time ... Warriors were serving Lakers near the end (probably last 5) years of Kobe's career
and Kobe has something like the most FG misses or top 5. I'm still picking Kobe over Klay 1v1 ... record and shooting % dont matter in a head on situation. All that stuff people are saying
about Tim is absolutely true, and the spurs are one of the best teams of all time. But head up, what is Tim gonna do in that setting? Shaq is better at 90% of everything. 1v1 I dont think Tim Duncan even comes out of that shyt healthy afterwards. Shaq struggled in a team setting Vs Yao Ming too, mainly because of the post jumper... which would be similar to Duncan. But I'm saying 1v1 .... realistically Yao would get fukking ragdolled at 7'6 against Shaq. I dont think there is any player in NBA history in a real basketball setting thats gonna stop Shaq. People were hacking him and he was holding back to not hurt anyone for the most part. If you let Shaq do what he wanted outside of team basketball ... I dont think Tony Parker and Tim Duncan together are stopping that ... For lack of a better sentence to sum up this post. I think Shaq could kill Tim Duncan on accident if he wanted to. If you use this newschool p*ssy wnba shyt, maybe Tim could shoot fall away jumpers... But Shaq 1 on 1 wouldnt have to give 70% effort to punish 95% of the history of the NBA. Kareem too, he's got a look at being called Goat and I respect and love him... Shaq fukking hates Kareem, unless Kareem is shooting all hooks 100% of the time. Shaq would purposely try to hurt and punish Kareem head up. You would have to put like a 20-24 year old Kareem in to survive that shyt. Shaq with NBA david stern rules was still cheap as fukk, I dont think people really watched or remember.


He was one of the only people from that era who was an absolute problem ... like legitimately if they arent calling shyt. Shaq might just ruin the whole game and body everyone. There hasnt been a time where people were like "oh fukk I gotta play Tim Duncan tonight" ... you missed my first post, but I was a Suns fan. I've seen Spurs eat shyt with my own eyes from Clippers, Suns Etc. I'm not even saying Tim aint a top player I am 100% not mad at people riding and loving the Spurs. In a real game yeah maybe and historically yeah... but 1v1 for basketball... nah I dont think Tim is bodying shaq, even if he used Tiago Splitter as a sub. One drop step on Tim could potentially end his shyt for a month. It's like someone saying "well dudes have belts and great records maybe they could fight Prime Tyson" nah probably not. And Shaq is arguably worse than Prime Tyson because he's 7 foot and 325lbs, he could probably drop 20 with Tim Duncan riding on his back. I laugh and say Hakeem crushed him that one time and blah blah... but head up. Hakeem wouldnt be doing that shake shyt, Shaq would probably dislocate his shoulder just to prove a point.

Basketball not a 1v1 sport so I don't know how you evaluate it that way. The closest you can come to that is H2H matchuos, and even then you have to weigh the full context of what each guy did in relation to what they were working with (supporting cast, coaching)...

 

[Fukwatutalkinwatisaylaw]

Asterisk talk is one of the dumbest things in ALL of sports convo’s.

like EVERY other team didn’t have the same exact opportunities to prepare and win that the Spurs did.

I agree but dem Warriors wit Kd have me thinkin differently

 

[Trojan 24]

Duncan and Shaq all beat weak teams some of the worst Finals teams ever actually.

‘99 Knicks
‘01 76ers
‘02 and ‘03 Nets
‘07 Cavs

And you just ignore the paths to the finals? The finals was more like their reward for surviving the West

 

[NaijaProdigy Redux]

Shaq is so insecure

 

[lightskin jermaine]

3-3. Suns signed Shaq to deal with the Spurs in 2008, then this happened.



Edit: I was at this game (where I won Free Whataburger for a Year...link in sig ). Can't believe Pop had Horry and Barry on the bench down 3

What a shot

 

[Flight]

Shaq is so insecure

Yup and a jealous dude on top of that. Shaq is one of the ten best players of all time but discrediting Tim is some hater shyt.

 

[ISO]

And you just ignore the paths to the finals? The finals was more like their reward for surviving the West

Idc like that you play whose in front of you I just wanna kill that narrative.

Wasn’t shyt tough about the West. The first round and second round matchups were usually handled in sweeps or 5-6 game series. It’s a reason the Lakers and Spurs rose to the top every time in the 00’s.

What was tough for the Spurs in ‘99? They steamrolled the West. The West damn near got swept. The Knicks gave them more of a fight.

What was tough about the West in ‘01? The West got swept. The Sixers gave them more of a fight.

What exactly has been tough for the Warriors in reaching the Finals? The Rockets and Cavs been the only teams to test them.

Y’all gas up treadmill West teams way too much just because they won some games in the regular season.

 

[Swagnificent]

You contactless dudes say this anytime anybody disagrees with you, and its rarely true. I started watching the game postseason '99, the summer I turned 10 years old. Definitely didn't grow up on the internet, I'm from the same era they gave computer classes in school to teach us how to use the muhfukkas because they were too expensive for most people to have at home...

So maybe you meant to quote someone else...

You guys gotta keep in mind that Shaq was 5 years older than Tim in basketball years. During the ~9 or so years that their primes overlapped, Shaq was greater the majority of the years. Shaq was the consensus greatest player for about 5 years immediately following Mike's retirement, and was still in the conversation for about two years after that...

So Year 6 Shaq was better than rookie Tim, Year 7 Shaq was better than Year 2 Tim, etc. This isn't really explaining anything and needs context, because most Year 8 superstars are greater than Year 3 players, and Shaq's 3peat dominance coincided with Duncan's 3rd/4th/5th years in The League. Most guys are in their physical/athletic peaks from Years 6-10, is it any surprise a Year 8-10 Shaq was a greater player than a guy 5 years younger than him?

Yall the same nikkas who call KD a "baby" in comparison to LeBron, when talking about OKC KD, yet there's a shorter age gap and a more overlapping prime between those two than these two...

In Duncan's second year he eliminated Shaq H2H, that's already been mentioned here. During the rest of the Kobe/Shaq run, there are two other occasions Duncan gave it to the Lakers and Kobe was the x-factor that won those series for LA. Shaq gave it to him too, and won 3-2 in the playoff series they faced, but the H2H Shaq/Duncan matchup didn't reveal there to be this seismic gap between the two...

Its easy to say Shaq was better than Duncan peak for peak, I don't disagree with that. Duncan more consistently imposed his will in the postseason. Duncan had the greater all around skillset. H2H in their primes, Shaq won 3 series to 2, but competitively speaking Tim was with him in lockstep, Shaq didn't just have his way with Tim the way he had it with other centers, Tim fought him to a draw at worst...

Both dominated different stretches of a great conference, Tim did it with the inferior team, as in, Tim's best teams weren't as good as Shaq's best teams...

Anybody saying its Shaq in a runaway is in denial. I prefer Duncan and it's hard for me to see how the overall body of work favors Shaq, but I see the argument for him. I just think Duncan's comprehensive body of work is stronger and in their peak, Shaq was greater than everybody but unfortunately for him, Shaq's career actually was longer than 1999-2003...

There was never a time in Duncan's career he was the man in the league who everyone feared. You know that if you actually were watching ball back then. Nobody was debating about Tim Duncan in the lunchrooms or barber shops. His greatness is literally based on resume accomplishments. Its not based on him actually being on our consciousness as the best player in the NBA the way Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, and even KD have been the last 20-25 years.

Stop arguing with me about a resume and mention some actual memories you have of Duncan dominating the league anywhere close to how Shaq did.

 

[Swagnificent]

nikkas be fronting on Shaq so hard. He truly don’t get the respect he deserves

I was only 12 when MJ retired the first time so I can’t really speak on watching him play like that but Shaq was the most dominant player I’ve ever watched in my lifetime

100% truth.

As a Kobe stan nikkas expect me to try and diminish Shaq's career. That will never happen. That man was as good as anyone I've ever seen when it comes to dominating a sport. If anyone says Shaq is better than Kobe I never get offended. I respect it as a legitimate viewpoint given how great that man was.

Anyone that tries to diminish Shaq's greatness simply never watched him play in his prime.

 

[Swagnificent]

"The Big Fundamental" doesn't compare when it comes to playing the game huh?

Duncan's game was not fundamental. It was boring. Hakeem Olajuwon had a more fundamentally sound game. Even KG had more skills.

Tim Duncan was not as skilled as Hakeem or KG.

 

[10bandz]

nikkas be fronting on Shaq so hard. He truly don’t get the respect he deserves

I was only 12 when MJ retired the first time so I can’t really speak on watching him play like that but Shaq was the most dominant player I’ve ever watched in my lifetime

I actually think it’s the opposite. Most people have in the top 10, some have him ahead of peers who accomplished more than him.

yet Shaq is seemingly the only player in the top 10 discussions that doesn’t have anything negative attached to his career

MJ - losing against the Pistons, not winning in the 80s in general, losing against Orlando

Magic - getting Westhead fired, 1984 “tragic magic”

Kobe - 2004 finals, running Shaq and Phil outta town

Bron - 2011 finals, switching teams a lot

TD - never repeated

Wilt - game 7 1968 finals a lot of old heads get at him for that


Yet for Shaq, 97/98/99 have NEVER been significantly held against him as part of his career narrative. Never. He played like ass in 2004 finals no blame, he contributed to the breakup of the lakers with no blame. Shaq has gotten a pass

 

[Swagnificent]

His nickname is Mr. Fundamental and he made the bank shot a go to move in the 2000s. How can you say he wasn’t skilled? He played in the NBA for 19 seasons. Nobody can last in professional sports that long without being skilled.

Also, your KG argument can be used against Shaq too. He played with 2 of the top 3 goat SG of all time and needed them to win the title. Nobody does it on their own. No teammate of Duncan’s was as good as the Wade or Kobe, Shaq played with.

A bank shot doesn't make you skilled. Basketball skills involve ball handling, shooting, footwork, passing ability, etc. Things Kevin Garnett was significantly better at than Tim Duncan. How many of you lil kids know KG started out as a SF? The guy had guard skills in a 7-footers body. To act like Tim Duncan was anywhere close to KG in skill is laughable. Duncan was just big and long. Very much a center with limited basketball skills.

And I could care less who Shaq played with. When Shaq was on he was the most dominant player in the history of the game. His greatness requires no argument. You either saw it or you didn't. Obviously you didn't see it since you are in here trying to use Kobe and Wade to diminish him.

 

[Greenhornet]

Basketball not a 1v1 sport so I don't know how you evaluate it that way. The closest you can come to that is H2H matchuos, and even then you have to weigh the full context of what each guy did in relation to what they were working with (supporting cast, coaching)...

thats an easy out, and a condition not realitive completely to ranking solo players

while some people say Russell is GOAT and base things on rings... you cant say alot of dudes with rings are ranked higher based on that team shyt

The fact that people are ranking "players" instead of "teams" further pads my point ...basketball is a team sport but ranking individuals doesnt solely fall on a team setting

Bill Russel Vs Wilt vs Kareem is a great argument for that ... one won way more... one scored way more and one was more dominant. Solo ranking can go whichever way. You cant just rank Wilt lower even though he was clearly more dominant than both. You can make the argument for either one and team doesnt really bolster that fact. It wouldnt make sense to say Malone is garbage for not winning even though he was 2nd scorer all time and dominant as possible, but if a different team had him and he won... suddenly he becomes solo ranked higher. Thats just not a leveled way of ranking a solo player's abilities. Nash could have went to a team besides the Suns and won, that wouldnt make him better than he is after the fact, based on a team winning for him.

 

[Swagnificent]

Im going to keep it all the way 1hun, Im not sure Duncan was the best player on those Spurs teams. Parker and Manu was giving dudes fits. Prime Parker was more dominant at his position than Duncan was at his. Couldn't stop him from getting into the lane. And Ginobli shoulda won finals mvp at least once.

Parker consistently gave the Lakers more problems. His quickness off the dribble was tough for even Kobe to handle so you're definitely right about that one.

Also they always had insane depth on their bench. Lots of quality rotation guys that always gave them good minutes in the playoffs.

They were a well oiled machine that had amazing coaching and quality players. Tim Duncan was simply the beneficiary of the Spurs system. He was not the ultimate driving force in the way other greats like Shaq, Kobe, and LeBron were fir their championships.

 

[Swagnificent]

Timmy and Bean Coulda pulled off some 60s Celtics run if they played together.

If duncan played with Kobe instead of Shaq, the lakers probably go a bill russell level title run instead of just three.

part of that is because duncan was younger so they would've lasted longer together in their primes but still.

Only cause Duncan would have been fine being Kobe's #2 and not beefed with him. Same could be said for KG. Put him and Kobe together and they win 6+ rings.

What you said here is more about Shaq and Kobe both being alpha males than anything else. If either guy was willing to be the sidekick then we all know they would have won more titles together.