EDIT: SOURCE MAGAZINE BIAS PROVEN TO BE MYTH - Source Top 100 Albums list

[mobbinfms]

And as far as this stylistic bias... that's BS too.

Pharcyde got 3.5s. Artists like Too Short and E-40 got 4s more often than not. MC Eiht got 4. Souls of
Mischief, O.C., Common- dudes like that got 3.5. Scarface got 4s, 4.5, and eventually a 5. Smif n Wessun got 3. Onyx got 3.5s. Ice Cube got everything ranging btwn 3 and 5... Nas also ran between 3 to 5. Mobb Deep got a 4.5 the same issue Westside Connection got a 4.5...

If you're gonna say stuff like this, remember them numbers and them ratings to back what you're saying. That's a lot of different styles and different ratings. Maybe some albums were just liked more? Strange concept, I know.

And that's not to say their word is 100% law. Nobody's is. It's always opinion. Even they themselves have said in hindsight, some albums may have deserved more, others may have deserved less. Again, real time vs. hindsight. There's albums I don't feel the exact same way about now that I did the first time I heard 'em. Some shyt grew on me, other shyt I don't like as much as I did. Is that a weird thing?

@DANJ! is debunking the myth of Source bias in this thread
@DaveyDave
@Rapmastermind
I think you might be interested in this subject.

no they werent.

i think something i said got lost in translation.

fugees were basically what kanye west was in the mid-00s, except better & more popular.

Fugees was getting love across the board. Real hip-hop heads on down to straight pop fans. And Lauryn was considered vicious on the mic. And the album was supposed to be serious. People were looking at them like they were gonna be a legendary group. They actually were - what you think Bone was.
At the time I was cause I hated the Fugees with a passion. Thought they were wack as shyt.

all these artists youre mentioning are artists that make the type of music that reasonates with the backpacks & the writers. the roots, outkast, mobb deep, raekwon, smiff-n-wessun. with dre/snoop/death row/nwa being the generic exception. the "token black friend" if you will. word to the homie @MooseMouthMthafuga.

Apparently not - see @DANJ! post above. He just completely debunked your style bias argument. Unless you got some other examples for us to evaluate.

and of course a big deal wasnt made about e.99 eternal getting 3 1/2, because people who were into bone thugs and all these other snub artists didnt live by mics like yall.

So there was absolutely no crossover between Bone fans and people who read the Source?
I know you like to play now like the Source wasn't shyt in real time - but that's just revisionist history. It was a credible publication. If nobody gave a shyt about the Source...nobody would have bought it...all those artists wouldn't have advertised in it. All those rappers wouldn't have mentioned it in their music.

what it comes down to is these writers and the people that subscribe to their same train of thought(youre one of them) have a way of living in your own bubble. if something doesnt fit your mold, you brush it off like it just doesnt matter. and its so deeply engraved in yall, you dont even realize it. even when you think youre being fair, youre throwing shade.

So because I didn't like Bone - I'm living in a bubble?
I'm not allowed to have my own preferences?
I'm supposed to treat all hip hop equally? I'm not supposed to have a preference between 2 Live Crew and Nas?

treacherous three & furious five got albums dog.

I know. I was asking you which ones you think got snubbed. The tapes comment was about your reference to Cold Crush (I think it was Cold Crush).

But in the 90s, one thing is for sure- 80s nostalgia was in full swing. Wild to think nikkas were being SUPER-nostalgic for music that was less than 10 years old, like a lifetime had passed since then. Old School tribute albums, specials on TV, etc. This is before nikkas were takin' the title "Golden Age" off of the late-80s and tried to move it over to the mid-90s, and acted like anything pre-Chronic didn't exist. This is when the Chronic was considered a turning point of a new era, and the era that predated it was considered the greatest time in hip-hop ever. This is when rappers o the time were covering and sampling all them shyts, and saluting Rakim as the undisputed GOAT.

This is absolute fact.
I didn't get put on to all the late 80s stuff until later (still haven't heard everything). I remember when I first heard Paid in Full and realized that basically the entire album had been taken, line by line, by my favorite rappers
And Rakim was definitely considered the undisputed GOAT to an 80s kid. And we didn't go around claiming he was wack or "dated" either...

There's not many albums (if any) pre-84 that are considered huge classics. In fact, '79 up to about '87 was largely based on singles more than albums. There were exception of course (such as Run-DMC, LL, Whodini, Beasties) but you'll have better luck finding a wealth of classic singles than full albums.

@Wacky D what are those Pre 84 classic albums?
And the 100 singles list included a lot of pre 84 stuff as I recall. The list was posted at the very beginning of page 4.

Missing Ridin' Dirty imo.

They had very little national presence at the time. Which was strange because they had that standout cut on the Menace soundtrack - but then - in the Bay at least - no one fukked with them up til Jay brought em out.

 

[criminology]

They had very little national presence at the time. Which was strange because they had that standout cut on the Menace soundtrack - but then - in the Bay at least - no one fukked with them up til Jay brought em out.

Yeah I know the reason why they weren't there then, but if I was revising the list something would have to get bumped.

 

[DaveyDave]

i'm not gonna act like i was buying The Source for years, i only started in 96 with this issue

but i've always thought people brought up bias because they wouldn't step up & give West Coast & Southern artists 5 mics when it deserved it. you really gonna give The Chronic 4.5 and then say Little Ghetto Boy was the let down song!? when you think about all the albums they gave 5 mics to in the first few years of the 90s, Ice Cube was the ONLY West Coast album that got 5 mics, i think it's still the only WC album that got 5 mics in the initial run of reviews.

i think by the time i was getting it a lot of those problems had been worked out and we didn't see so much "bias"

 

[Wacky D]

I'm GLAD you said "in real time". I'm GLAD. Exxxxactly.

It's very easy to say NOW... almost 20 years and emotional connections later that certain albums were or were not classics. In real time, different story. Especially when you consider how much good music was coming out in that era... when the bar is already high, it's also harder to reach or go above that bar. I said before, nobody was in the middle of 1994 sayin' "yo, this is the greatest year ever in hip-hop!" nikkas didn't have 2014 on their mind, or know if they'd still be bumpin' shyt in 20 years. Real time just is what it is. There's Clue tapes I hear and just at how many classic songs were out in that same block of time that the tape was made. But we didn't dwell on that shyt... it was always dope new shyt comin' out. 20/20 hindsight makes it easier to say "this was a classic, this was a classic..." nikkas'll call anything old a classic if they got the free reign to do so. A lot of them shyts were just dope-ass albums when they were new. There's shyt like Doe Or Die and Tical that you'd swear crushed the game if you let nikkas' current opinions tell it... back then, they were dope and the world kept spinnin'.

But in the 90s, one thing is for sure- 80s nostalgia was in full swing. Wild to think nikkas were being SUPER-nostalgic for music that was less than 10 years old, like a lifetime had passed since then. Old School tribute albums, specials on TV, etc. This is before nikkas were takin' the title "Golden Age" off of the late-80s and tried to move it over to the mid-90s, and acted like anything pre-Chronic didn't exist. This is when the Chronic was considered a turning point of a new era, and the era that predated it was considered the greatest time in hip-hop ever. This is when rappers o the time were covering and sampling all them shyts, and saluting Rakim as the undisputed GOAT.

youre GLAAD alright. definitely GLAAD.

and why are you repeating this?

this was your argument with somebody else. NOT ME. its all about me right now. get yourself together.

i never said that we were referring to new classics as classic in real-time like that. what i said was, we knew how we generally felt about certain albums in real-time, so when the time came to hand out classic titles, we knew which albums went where.

Wacky... have you heard any of those T3 or Furious 5 albums, or are you just saying they got done dirty cause you swear this list was done with mean-spirited axe-grinding intentions?

There's not many albums (if any) pre-84 that are considered huge classics. In fact, '79 up to about '87 was largely based on singles more than albums. There were exception of course (such as Run-DMC, LL, Whodini, Beasties) but you'll have better luck finding a wealth of classic singles than full albums. Only around '87-'88 did great hip-hop albums start coming out in bulk... another reason '88 is considered to be pivotal, because of all the debut and breakthrough albums that were out that year.

furious five - yes.
treacherous three - no, but half of the joints on that tracklist are well-known classics and we know the impact & influence that came from it.

pre-84 albums arent considered classics according to whom? people that werent into rap yet?

the rest of this is yet another case of you rambling on about stuff that i already know. i never said that there was a huge abundance of pre-87 classic albums, but it wasnt the dry well that youre making it out to be either.

And as far as this stylistic bias... that's BS too.

Pharcyde got 3.5s. Artists like Too Short and E-40 got 4s more often than not. MC Eiht got 4. Souls of
Mischief, O.C., Common- dudes like that got 3.5. Scarface got 4s, 4.5, and eventually a 5. Smif n Wessun got 3. Onyx got 3.5s. Ice Cube got everything ranging btwn 3 and 5... Nas also ran between 3 to 5. Mobb Deep got a 4.5 the same issue Westside Connection got a 4.5...

If you're gonna say stuff like this, remember them numbers and them ratings to back what you're saying. That's a lot of different styles and different ratings. Maybe some albums were just liked more? Strange concept, I know.

And that's not to say their word is 100% law. Nobody's is. It's always opinion. Even they themselves have said in hindsight, some albums may have deserved more, others may have deserved less. Again, real time vs. hindsight. There's albums I don't feel the exact same way about now that I did the first time I heard 'em. Some shyt grew on me, other shyt I don't like as much as I did. Is that a weird thing?

off of what and when did said artists get those ratings tho?

onyx getting a 3.5 hurts your argument actually. they werent the critics' type.

if mc eiht was the critics' type, he wouldve got more than a 4.

scarface is a southern exception tot the critics. geto boys & dungeon family are their southern "black friends". typical & predictable.

 

[Wacky D]

Yeah I know the reason why they weren't there then, but if I was revising the list something would have to get bumped.

ehh. theyre still regional guys, even after the past 10 years of campaigning. they just didnt have IT. no need to make it a must to revise them in.

"ridin dirty" isnt even their best album. its just the one that theyve been campaigning for. "super tight" is better. im not sure if it cracks my top 100, but its definitely in the running.

and if it comes down to the point where i would have to choose one, i might have to go with 8ball & mjg's joint over them..........just wanted to drive my point home.

i think by the time i was getting it a lot of those problems had been worked out and we didn't see so much "bias"

THE BENZINO ERA.

@DANJ!

Fugees was getting love across the board. Real hip-hop heads on down to straight pop fans. And Lauryn was considered vicious on the mic. And the album was supposed to be serious. People were looking at them like they were gonna be a legendary group. They actually were - what you think Bone was.
At the time I was cause I hated the Fugees with a passion. Thought they were wack as shyt.





So there was absolutely no crossover between Bone fans and people who read the Source?
I know you like to play now like the Source wasn't shyt in real time - but that's just revisionist history. It was a credible publication. If nobody gave a shyt about the Source...nobody would have bought it...all those artists wouldn't have advertised in it. All those rappers wouldn't have mentioned it in their music.


So because I didn't like Bone - I'm living in a bubble?
I'm not allowed to have my own preferences?
I'm supposed to treat all hip hop equally? I'm not supposed to have a preference between 2 Live Crew and Nas?

so i just think bone was a legendary group now?? this is becoming nonsense.
your whole description of the fugees fits bone as well. and you try to paint bone as a novelty act, but that moreso fits the fugees.

the thing about the fugees, they werent a group that you would really argue about on the block, in the lunchroom, on the court, etc......thats what i was getting at. thats also pretty much what others in here are getting at, which goes back to why alot of people in here arent sold on the idea of "the score" being a classic. i didnt know i was going to have to spell it out in here.

im not saying that the source meant nothing. and im not saying that bone fans didnt read the source. im saying that you knew what you were getting with the source. they were clearly east coast-centric with the ratings. you knew going in that your favorite west/south/midwest artists would be lucky to get 4 mics(usually after they were established and had multiple releases beforehand.). and it was like this no matter how hot their chit was, unless they were a critics favorite stylistically or the token death row/ice cube stuff.

youre not living in a bubble because you dont like bone. the problem is, youre trying to downplay them and not acknowledging what they were to the game, because youre too stuck on what youre stuck on. and this aint even about bone. we've been going back-n-forth about this since you got here. this is how we initially bumped heads in the 1st place. you were oblivious to other acts, and so stuck in your ways that you used to think that kanye was a lyricist.

 

[Wacky D]

Nobody talked about Bone like they were elite at the time. It wasn't - who's the best emcees Biggie Jay-Z and Wish Bone. They were popular and people loved the singles and the style - but they weren't in the conversation about who was the best. Not in 95-97.

"who your favorite emcee? mystikal, makaveli or BONE?"

they were indeed mentioned with the best. just not in elitist crowds.

yall be living in your own little worlds. that last bone/wutang thread was proof positive. the wutang voters could write a book about wutang, to the point where they thought they were even bigger & more influential than they actually were. giving them credit for stuff that never even popped off. meanwhile, on the flip, they didnt even know their right from left when it came to the common knowledge basics about bone.

 

[criminology]

ehh. theyre still regional guys, even after the past 10 years of campaigning. they just didnt have IT. no need to make it a must to revise them in.

"ridin dirty" isnt even their best album. its just the one that theyve been campaigning for. "super tight" is better. im not sure if it cracks my top 100, but its definitely in the running.

and if it comes down to the point where i would have to choose one, i might have to go with 8ball & mjg's joint over them..........just wanted to drive my point home.

You missed the part where I said "in my opinion" or "If I was revising the list"? It's all opinions in this. These list do more harm than good because everyone squabbles over opinions as if they're objectively valid. I *personally* think Ridin Dirty is a great album, musically. To me top a 50 hip hop album of all time. Easily top 100. I also don't care if it's regional. Music is music. I connect or don't. If a million people connect to drake it makes no difference to me. All this is why I said I felt the list would be better with RD, and it has nothing to do with some "campaign" I've felt that way for over a decade. If you think super tight better then more power to you

 

[prophecypro]

And as far as this stylistic bias... that's BS too.

Pharcyde got 3.5s. Artists like Too Short and E-40 got 4s more often than not. MC Eiht got 4. Souls of
Mischief, O.C., Common- dudes like that got 3.5. Scarface got 4s, 4.5, and eventually a 5. Smif n Wessun got 3. Onyx got 3.5s. Ice Cube got everything ranging btwn 3 and 5... Nas also ran between 3 to 5. Mobb Deep got a 4.5 the same issue Westside Connection got a 4.5...

If you're gonna say stuff like this, remember them numbers and them ratings to back what you're saying. That's a lot of different styles and different ratings. Maybe some albums were just liked more? Strange concept, I know.

And that's not to say their word is 100% law. Nobody's is. It's always opinion. Even they themselves have said in hindsight, some albums may have deserved more, others may have deserved less. Again, real time vs. hindsight. There's albums I don't feel the exact same way about now that I did the first time I heard 'em. Some shyt grew on me, other shyt I don't like as much as I did. Is that a weird thing?

Finally someone said it, The Source did a lot of extensive coverage of other regions and gave strong ratings to all acts. It wasnt Rap Pages or Muder Dog but they showcased a lot of different styles for people to discover overseas.That regonal bias thing gets them tight cause a lot of classic LPs got 4.5's from other regions but they went back and re-mic'd em anyway by 2002.

 

[DANJ!]

The funny thing to me, @Wacky D is this...

You say you know all this shyt already... so why you actin' like you don't? Why conveniently neglect to acknowledge that I listed a pretty diverse group of artists, and a diverse group of ratings to go with it. Source was East Coast centric and elitist "real hip-hop" cats, right? We all these pages in and you STILL don't have shyt to say about ALL the acts who don' fall into that category that they gave props and high ratings to. So they only give props to Death Row/Cube/Dungeon Fam/Scarface out of tokenism, eh? So if they were the "token black friends", who were all the others I named?

If anything, the shyt you're sayin' makes it sound like they shoulda given them "extra credit" to prove they weren't biased. A "I CAN'T be racist, I voted for Obama!" kinda thing. So even during that era when pretty much nobody was getting 5 mics, Pac/BTNH/Eiht/Quik/whoever you feel was jerked SHOULD HAVE gotten that... and because they didn't it automatically means there was resentment involved in those decisions. Even though East Coast "real hip-hop" acts like Raekwon/Black Moon/GangStarr/KRS etc. were getting the same kinda ratings. shyt was leveled. All "real hip-hop" shyt wasn't gettin' high ratings, just like all "street/gangsta" shyt wasn't gettin' low ratings.

And as for that "GLAAD" shyt... I'll let you have your lil' jokey joke, cause I know how real this internet shyt is to you. Just know, that I know, keyboards create courage. I ain't sayin' I'ma come to Philly and whoop your ass, I'm just sayin'... let's keep it respectful breh. Don't be a clown.

 

[DaveyDave]

THE BENZINO ERA.

@DANJ!

Benzino well that was a different kind of bias @ Made Men getting 4.5 mics

 

[Wacky D]

Benzino well that was a different kind of bias @ Made Men getting 4.5 mics

no dog.

im saying the benzino era is when they started being more fair to other regions.

you should be thanking him.

Finally someone said it, The Source did a lot of extensive coverage of other regions and gave strong ratings to all acts. It wasnt Rap Pages or Muder Dog but they showcased a lot of different styles for people to discover overseas.That regonal bias thing gets them tight cause a lot of classic LPs got 4.5's from other regions but they went back and re-mic'd em anyway by 2002.

of course they were gonna cover all regions. cuz they were poppin.

the didnt do a good job of re-mic'ing either.

The funny thing to me, @Wacky D is this...

You say you know all this shyt already... so why you actin' like you don't? Why conveniently neglect to acknowledge that I listed a pretty diverse group of artists, and a diverse group of ratings to go with it. Source was East Coast centric and elitist "real hip-hop" cats, right? We all these pages in and you STILL don't have shyt to say about ALL the acts who don' fall into that category that they gave props and high ratings to. So they only give props to Death Row/Cube/Dungeon Fam/Scarface out of tokenism, eh? So if they were the "token black friends", who were all the others I named?

If anything, the shyt you're sayin' makes it sound like they shoulda given them "extra credit" to prove they weren't biased. A "I CAN'T be racist, I voted for Obama!" kinda thing. So even during that era when pretty much nobody was getting 5 mics, Pac/BTNH/Eiht/Quik/whoever you feel was jerked SHOULD HAVE gotten that... and because they didn't it automatically means there was resentment involved in those decisions. Even though East Coast "real hip-hop" acts like Raekwon/Black Moon/GangStarr/KRS etc. were getting the same kinda ratings. shyt was leveled. All "real hip-hop" shyt wasn't gettin' high ratings, just like all "street/gangsta" shyt wasn't gettin' low ratings.

And as for that "GLAAD" shyt... I'll let you have your lil' jokey joke, cause I know how real this internet shyt is to you. Just know, that I know, keyboards create courage. I ain't sayin' I'ma come to Philly and whoop your ass, I'm just sayin'... let's keep it respectful breh. Don't be a clown.

youre blatantly ignoring stuff just so that you can repeat the same arguments.

you want to name random artists getting 4, but you dont want to mention when they got 4 and off what albums, even after i asked you. and homeboy a couple pages ago broke down the differences in the mic distributions CLEARLY and yall are still avoiding his post like the plague. youre very slick but you cant out-hustle a hustla.

the GLAAD thing was a playful innocent joke because you kept putting "GLAD" in capital letters. lol. this is what you get upset over? that was all in good fun. now if it was something else i said that got you upset, lemme know. cuz this chit here definitely wasnt it. but cannon, dont get this forum chit twisted. im not no internet nicca. i dont pop chit on the net and i DAM SURE dont need to hide behind a computer. and its people in your own town that can vouch for that. i enjoy arguing with you(half the time at least.) and i always insist on keeping it civil with whoever im arguing with. but dont get me confused with some of these dudes on here.

 

[DANJ!]

youre blatantly ignoring stuff just so that you can repeat the same arguments.

you want to name random artists getting 4, but you dont want to mention when they got 4 and off what albums. and homeboy a couple pages ago broke down the differences in the mic distributions CLEARLY and yall are still avoiding his post like the plague.

the GLAAD thing was a playful innocent joke because you kept putting "GLAD" in capital letters. lol. this is what you get upset over? that was all in good fun. but cannon, dont get this forum chit twisted. im not no internet nicca. i dont pop chit on the net and i DAM SURE dont need to hide behind a computer. and its people in your own town that can vouch for that. i enjoy arguing with you(half the time at least.) and i always insist on keeping it civil with whoever im arguing with. but dont get me confused with some of these dudes on here.

You know who says "I ain't no internet nikka"? Internet nikkas. Nobody's mad... just said, be respectful. Let's move on.

I ain't hiding anything about the ratings breh. I'll name the albums, no problem. Every 90s Quik album got 4. Onyx never got higher than 3.5, not even for Bacdafucup- and that was like a prime example of popular East Coast hip-hop at the point in time. Smif n Wessun's first album- a great album IMO- 3 mics. Westside Connection's Bow Down... 4.5. MC Eiht's best album We Come Strapped- 4. GangStarr's (arguably) best album Daily Operation- 3.5. Reasonable Doubt- 4. Southernplayalistic- 4.5. E-40's In A Major Way, Hall of Game- 4. Ras Kass' Soul on Ice- you know, the backpacker's holy grail... 3. Cypress Hill got 4's for their first three albums. Luniz Operation Stackola- 4. Souls of Mischief 93 Til- another respected "real hip-hop" album- 3.5. O.C's 'Word Life'- another underground favorite- 3.5. Master P's Ghetto D- street shyt - 4. I can name others...

IMO, they were usually on or near the mark. 4 wasn't even a bad rating, I'm not sure when or how that rating suggests a snubbing. Matter fact, a 4 used to mean the album was definitely worth a buy. And damn near 100% of the time, if something got a 4.5 (which was almost as rare as a 5 was), you could bet your ass it was a heavy hitter. They gave 4.5 to Death Certificate, Chronic, 36 Chambers, OB4CL, Infamous, shyt like that. Guess what was the first 4.5 that was nowhere near as good as the others before it

And I didn't agree with every single rating they gave, but who agrees with every single rating ANYbody gives? It just wasn't this "elitist" system you say it was. I would think an elitist East Coast-style "real hip-hop" mag would be shyttin' all over the E-40s, Too Shorts, Master Ps, etc. and proppin' the fukk outta the Canibus, Ras Kass, O.C., etc... but that's not what happened. IJS.

 

[Wacky D]

You know who says "I ain't no internet nikka"? Internet nikkas. Nobody's mad... just said, be respectful. Let's move on.

I ain't hiding anything about the ratings breh. I'll name the albums, no problem. Every 90s Quik album got 4. Onyx never got higher than 3.5, not even for Bacdafucup- and that was like a prime example of popular East Coast hip-hop at the point in time. Smif n Wessun's first album- a great album IMO- 3 mics. Westside Connection's Bow Down... 4.5. MC Eiht's best album We Come Strapped- 4. GangStarr's (arguably) best album Daily Operation- 3.5. Reasonable Doubt- 4. Southernplayalistic- 4.5. E-40's In A Major Way, Hall of Game- 4. Ras Kass' Soul on Ice- you know, the backpacker's holy grail... 3. Cypress Hill got 4's for their first three albums. Luniz Operation Stackola- 4. Souls of Mischief 93 Til- another respected "real hip-hop" album- 3.5. O.C's 'Word Life'- another underground favorite- 3.5. Master P's Ghetto D- street shyt - 4. I can name others...

IMO, they were usually on or near the mark. 4 wasn't even a bad rating, I'm not sure when or how that rating suggests a snubbing. Matter fact, a 4 used to mean the album was definitely worth a buy. And damn near 100% of the time, if something got a 4.5 (which was almost as rare as a 5 was), you could bet your ass it was a heavy hitter. They gave 4.5 to Death Certificate, Chronic, 36 Chambers, OB4CL, Infamous, shyt like that. Guess what was the first 4.5 that was nowhere near as good as the others before it

And I didn't agree with every single rating they gave, but who agrees with every single rating ANYbody gives? It just wasn't this "elitist" system you say it was. I would think an elitist East Coast-style "real hip-hop" mag would be shyttin' all over the E-40s, Too Shorts, Master Ps, etc. and proppin' the fukk outta the Canibus, Ras Kass, O.C., etc... but that's not what happened. IJS.

say what you want. i told you what it is ack.

some good ones here to prove your point. but half of these are really proving my point actually. outkast, cypress, cube was in WSC. cmon breh. and onyx, as i said werent the critic's type. mc eiht & master p wouldve got higher than 4s if they had the same quality but different styles. then theres others that got what was expected given the circumstances(jigga). you had some good examples to further your point up there. its not as bad as i thought, but the bias is still glaring.

i dont know? drake?

 

[DANJ!]

say what you want. i told you what it is ack.

some good ones here to prove your point. but half of these are really proving my point actually. outkast, cypress, cube was in WSC. cmon breh. and onyx, as i said werent the critic's type. mc eiht & master p wouldve got higher than 4s if they had the same quality but different styles. then theres others that got what was expected given the circumstances(jigga). you had some good examples to further your point up there. its not as bad as i thought, but the bias is still glaring.

i dont know? drake?

Cube being in WSC don't mean shyt. Prior to that, Cube hadn't gotten a rating that high in 5 years. Matter fact, Lethal Injection (deservedly) got a 3.5. In the review IIRC, it was noted that Bow Down was the best Cube project in a long time.

Onyx wasn't their type? In '93? Amped-up NY hip-hop with shouted hooks and violence? That was the biggest thing going on in NY that year. If hardcore East Coast shyt wasn't the Source's bag... Redman's first album (4.5)? Black Moon (4)? Nah?

Eiht and P woulda got more than 4 with the same quality but different styles... so... if the albums sounded completely different than what they were? How does that even work? So if they were completely different rappers, with completely different sound... so say, if they sounded like Jay-Z and AZ instead? They woulda still got 4!

Nah, not Drake. A lightskin nikka from Boston and two of his friends... who just happened to have influence at the magazine.

 

[mobbinfms]

i'm not gonna act like i was buying The Source for years, i only started in 96 with this issue

but i've always thought people brought up bias because they wouldn't step up & give West Coast & Southern artists 5 mics when it deserved it. you really gonna give The Chronic 4.5 and then say Little Ghetto Boy was the let down song!? when you think about all the albums they gave 5 mics to in the first few years of the 90s, Ice Cube was the ONLY West Coast album that got 5 mics, i think it's still the only WC album that got 5 mics in the initial run of reviews.

i think by the time i was getting it a lot of those problems had been worked out and we didn't see so much "bias"

I remember that issue. This was my first issue a few months earlier:

youre GLAAD alright. definitely GLAAD.

pre-84 albums arent considered classics according to whom?

That Treacherous Three album was more likea compilation though. It would be like Bone finally putting an album with teh Crossroads remix on it out in 1999. The Flash album is a good example though. Kurtis Blow might have a legit gripe too - but I've never heard any of his albums.

onyx getting a 3.5 hurts your argument actually. they werent the critics' type.

if mc eiht was the critics' type, he wouldve got more than a 4.

scarface is a southern exception tot the critics. geto boys & dungeon family are their southern "black friends". typical & predictable.

Why do you say Onyx wasn't the critics type?

THE BENZINO ERA.

@DANJ!

I thought the Benzino era started after the Made Men got 4.5 in 1999? If so - the mid 90s ratings still should have been very east coast/real hip hop biased (which they weren't)

so i just think bone was a legendary group now?? this is becoming nonsense.

I didn't say there weren't now. But that they weren't viewed as if they were gonna be one in real time.

and you try to paint bone as a novelty act, but that moreso fits the fugees.

This is a fair point. The girl in the group. The singing. They had their hip-hop bonafies though.

the thing about the fugees, they werent a group that you would really argue about on the block, in the lunchroom, on the court, etc......thats what i was getting at.

I disagree with this - I was always hearing about them in hip-hop discussions in 96. I was running into people in the street talking about they had been out all day trying to find a copy of the Score b/c it was sold out.

youre not living in a bubble because you dont like bone. the problem is, youre trying to downplay them and not acknowledging what they were to the game, because youre too stuck on what youre stuck on.

Are you saying that I have to view them the way that you do in order to not be downplaying them?
Knowing that I'm not a fan at all - what exactly would be the proper way to acknowledge them?

this is how we initially bumped heads in the 1st place. you were oblivious to other acts, and so stuck in your ways that you used to think that kanye was a lyricist.

We bumped heads over E-40 and Juvenile. I don't even remember talking to you about Kanye - but I'll see if I can find what you're referencing.

"who your favorite emcee? mystikal, makaveli or BONE?"

That's not the line. The Mac song right? I've never heard it but I googled the lyrics...
Apparently its "who he sound like?" Do you remember the very next group he mentioned after Bone? I'll give you a hint - they're the GOAT group on the Coli according to a very reputable poll.

The funny thing to me, @Wacky D is this...

You say you know all this shyt already... so why you actin' like you don't? Why conveniently neglect to acknowledge that I listed a pretty diverse group of artists, and a diverse group of ratings to go with it. Source was East Coast centric and elitist "real hip-hop" cats, right? We all these pages in and you STILL don't have shyt to say about ALL the acts who don' fall into that category that they gave props and high ratings to. So they only give props to Death Row/Cube/Dungeon Fam/Scarface out of tokenism, eh? So if they were the "token black friends", who were all the others I named?

If anything, the shyt you're sayin' makes it sound like they shoulda given them "extra credit" to prove they weren't biased. A "I CAN'T be racist, I voted for Obama!" kinda thing. So even during that era when pretty much nobody was getting 5 mics, Pac/BTNH/Eiht/Quik/whoever you feel was jerked SHOULD HAVE gotten that... and because they didn't it automatically means there was resentment involved in those decisions. Even though East Coast "real hip-hop" acts like Raekwon/Black Moon/GangStarr/KRS etc. were getting the same kinda ratings. shyt was leveled. All "real hip-hop" shyt wasn't gettin' high ratings, just like all "street/gangsta" shyt wasn't gettin' low ratings.

At this point - you've debunked the myth of Source bias. The actual ratings tell a very different story. The burden is now on those who think the Source was biased to bring up some examples.

the didnt do a good job of re-mic'ing either.

What did they miss? What got 5 that shouldn't have?

and homeboy a couple pages ago broke down the differences in the mic distributions CLEARLY and yall are still avoiding his post like the plague.

Who was that?

I ain't hiding anything about the ratings breh. I'll name the albums, no problem. Every 90s Quik album got 4. Onyx never got higher than 3.5, not even for Bacdafucup- and that was like a prime example of popular East Coast hip-hop at the point in time. Smif n Wessun's first album- a great album IMO- 3 mics. Westside Connection's Bow Down... 4.5. MC Eiht's best album We Come Strapped- 4. GangStarr's (arguably) best album Daily Operation- 3.5. Reasonable Doubt- 4. Southernplayalistic- 4.5. E-40's In A Major Way, Hall of Game- 4. Ras Kass' Soul on Ice- you know, the backpacker's holy grail... 3. Cypress Hill got 4's for their first three albums. Luniz Operation Stackola- 4. Souls of Mischief 93 Til- another respected "real hip-hop" album- 3.5. O.C's 'Word Life'- another underground favorite- 3.5. Master P's Ghetto D- street shyt - 4. I can name others...

IMO, they were usually on or near the mark. 4 wasn't even a bad rating, I'm not sure when or how that rating suggests a snubbing. Matter fact, a 4 used to mean the album was definitely worth a buy. And damn near 100% of the time, if something got a 4.5 (which was almost as rare as a 5 was), you could bet your ass it was a heavy hitter. They gave 4.5 to Death Certificate, Chronic, 36 Chambers, OB4CL, Infamous, shyt like that. Guess what was the first 4.5 that was nowhere near as good as the others before it

And I didn't agree with every single rating they gave, but who agrees with every single rating ANYbody gives? It just wasn't this "elitist" system you say it was. I would think an elitist East Coast-style "real hip-hop" mag would be shyttin' all over the E-40s, Too Shorts, Master Ps, etc. and proppin' the fukk outta the Canibus, Ras Kass, O.C., etc... but that's not what happened. IJS.

Nail in the coffin.

Eiht and P woulda got more than 4 with the same quality but different styles... so... if the albums sounded completely different than what they were? How does that even work? So if they were completely different rappers, with completely different sound... so say, if they sounded like Jay-Z and AZ instead? They woulda still got 4!

They would have got different ratings if they were a different group making different music - therefore the Source is biased.