EDIT: SOURCE MAGAZINE BIAS PROVEN TO BE MYTH - Source Top 100 Albums list

[Wacky D]

But I'm not talkin' about general consensus and what they feel about it 20 years later.

I'm talkin' about my personal opinion. Am *I* biased for liking one more than the other?

Or am I just supposed to like Doggystyle better cause it's a general consensus favorite... or because *I* like it better?

Or if I like MM better am I being biased? Why? Cause general consensus prefers Doggystyle? Why can't I just like it independent of consensus?

Matter fact, what if, like the people who wrote at the Source in '93, I rated these albums in real time... with NO consensus to speak of, because these albums were both brand new. Just my own personal opinion, I like one more than the other... is it preference, or bias?

doggystyle was consensus levels above MM, even back then.

there needs to be a balance.

even if they reviewed an advance copy, its evident that doggystyle is on the same plateau as the chronic. so they already had something to work off of.

 

[DANJ!]

doggystyle was consensus levels above MM, even back then.

there needs to be a balance.

even if they reviewed an advance copy, its evident that doggystyle is on the same plateau as the chronic. so they already had something to work off of.

I'm not talkin' about consensus breh.

I'm talkin' about ME. MY opinion.

Nothing's evident. It's evident to YOU cause YOU feel that way. And granted, so do many others. But if someone's opinion differs, it HAS to be bias?

Do *I* have a right to like one more than the other? Regardless of who buys it, who likes it, who loves it... do *I* have the right to like one album more than another, without someone saying I'm discriminating against the other one?

Simple question.

 

[Wacky D]

I'm not talkin' about consensus breh.

I'm talkin' about ME. MY opinion.

Nothing's evident. It's evident to YOU cause YOU feel that way. And granted, so do many others. But if someone's opinion differs, it HAS to be bias?

Do *I* have a right to like one more than the other? Regardless of who buys it, who likes it, who loves it... do *I* have the right to like one album more than another, without someone saying I'm discriminating against the other one?

Simple question.

it goes back to what i came in here saying. they have a clear preference.

thing is, preference leads to bias at the end of the day.

its obvious that they tend to favor a certain type of hip-hop more. you just cant admit it. come home already.

 

[DANJ!]

it goes back to what i came in here saying. they have a clear preference.

thing is, preference leads to bias at the end of the day.

its obvious that they tend to favor a certain type of hip-hop more. you just cant admit it. come home already.

I can't admit it because I gave you a number of examples that contradict that. How many more do I have to list? I know them ratings like the back of my hand. It's damn near encyclopedic.

"Real hip-hop" East Coast type dudes from the mid-90s love Common's Resurrection, DITC shyt, Boot Camp Click shyt, Ras Kass, Beatnuts, all that shyt. "Real hip-hop" nikkas from the mid-90s weren't on no DJ Quik, E-40, Master P, Too Short, Spice 1 type vibe... and you know this breh. You know this.

Now if we had to add up the mics... guess which of those two groups would have more?

But they "obviously" biased tho'... and you still ain't answer my question...

So I guess I'm biased too. And you biased. And everybody that has albums/artists/songs they like better than others is biased.

 

[Wacky D]

Now if we had to add up the mics... guess which of those two groups would have more?

But they "obviously" biased tho'... and you still ain't answer my question...

So I guess I'm biased too. And you biased. And everybody that has albums/artists/songs they like better than others is biased.

i dont know. you tell me who would have more.

what question?

 

[mobbinfms]

i guess.

i just remember being over you coming in here championing kanye as some sort of supreme lyricist.

That ain't what happened at all. Go back and check the thread. I came in hating on Juvenile

he still cube tho. and he stepped up. the window was always open.

So - his early good music was given high ratings...his later bad shyt was given low ratings...and then his comeback album with WSC got a high rating. Isn't this exactly what should have happened?

@mobbinfms the critic type never liked onyx like that. its clearly not their groove, and not comparable to redman or even black moon. i dont understand the comparison there.

You gotta elaborate more on this. I'm with @DANJ! in thinking they'd be right up the Source's alley.

man, does eiht even have an album on the top 100?

There's your snub. Which one though?

P shouldve got no less than a 4 1/2 for ghetto d.

shyt was a three mic album at best...P fell off after he left Richmond, CA

and if you want to compare him to reasonable doubt, then you have to compare it to "ice cream man". the mainstream debuts via '96 priority records. and mind you, "ice cream man" is held in the same regard as ghetto d. many even say that its better. yet it got a whopping 3 mics. COUNT EM UP. 3 mics.

That album didn't make any waves in the Bay. Ghetto D obviously did - No Limit mania was on nationwide at that point. So, at least in the Bay, this is revisionism.

treacherous three was more like a compilation how?

There were singles from 80-81 on the album which dropped in 84. More like a collection of previously released singles.

i dont know when the benzino era began exactly, but thats around the time that the source began to get a bit hipper. those were the biggest years for the magazine, btw.

That was b/c hip-hop itself was much larger.

well, no new artists were viewed as legends in real-time. but you knew bone were having a 1st ballot hall of fame career. thats all i want you to acknowledge.

Sentence one completely contradicts sentence two. And I disagree that they were seen as 1st ballot hall of famers in real time.

thats prolly the line. same chit.

That's completely different!

We can talk about who shoulda got what all day... that's all subjective. Point is, that bias people speak of is exaggerated as fukk. I can name COUNTLESS East Coast acts that got average-to-OK ratings, just as many as West Coast or Southern acts. And even outside the ratings, what about the amount of COVERAGE they gave to nikkas?

It's just funny to read people act like the Source was being so discriminatory against people not from the East. cause I remember when NY nikkas used to dis the Source for pole-jockin' Cali. nikkas had a heartattack when they did a whole issue that tributing Miami Bass. nikkas in the Source Awards booin' all night because non-NY acts were winnin' so many awards (in '94 AND '95). I'm just sayin' breh... Source ain't been no NY-centric mag since like '91 (and even then, Cube was their artist of the year, NWA was album of the year, and Geto Boys was single of the year )

I'm changing the thread title. We need more people in here talking about this. I've never seen anyone on here get this in depth on Source ratings. THE MYTH OF SOURCE BIAS WAS A LIE!!!!

@mobbinfms

everybody should list their next 10 that they would put in from '98 - present. and see how many of them are worthy of crackin the list.

like nba-tv did with that old top 50 list a week or so ago.

That's a great idea.

im just saying, they had a bias. i never said it was as bad as people made it out to be, but it existed. i gave examples too. another example is doggystyle getting 4 while outkast gets 4.5. thats just ridiculous.

What's the bias there though? They got a ranking for Doggystyle wrong - no question. But what does Kast have to do with it? Kast can't get the right rating cause Snoop got the wrong one?

:nikkapls::nikkapls: nothing after 98 worth putting on that list??


about half of those would stay

Which ones you taking off to make room for Take Care?

spcm is their classic, but it shouldnt have got 4.5 out the gate when theres superior albums that got lesser(sometimes way lesser) ratings.

So if one ratings wrong they all have to be wrong?

i dont like tribe's debut at all. not 5 mic material.

It's way better than 3.5 though.

doggystyle is clearly superior to midnight marauders.

No its not. Not clearly.

They're both easily top 3-4 albums of '93, but I'm sure EVERYBODY's list doesn't go the same way. Is it bias or preference? So it's OK to love Doggystyle more, but not MM? So is that West Coast bias, or do you just prefer Doggystyle (no GLAAD)?

As long as you got them in the top 5 - there's no bias. Bias implies some kind of unfairness. So saying MM is the best album and Doggystle was #27 would be evidence of bias.

i didnt start feeling a bit more comfortable with the source's ratings of other styles until the hot boys came thru and got 4 1/2.

thats the benzino era. THE APEX OF THE BENZINO ERA.

@DaveyDave

That rating was

but doggystyle is a general consensus goat contender. you cant say that about any tribe album.

Low End Theory?

thing is, preference leads to bias at the end of the day.

Not necessarily true.

I can't admit it because I gave you a number of examples that contradict that. How many more do I have to list? I know them ratings like the back of my hand. It's damn near encyclopedic.

"Real hip-hop" East Coast type dudes from the mid-90s love Common's Resurrection, DITC shyt, Boot Camp Click shyt, Ras Kass, Beatnuts, all that shyt. "Real hip-hop" nikkas from the mid-90s weren't on no DJ Quik, E-40, Master P, Too Short, Spice 1 type vibe... and you know this breh. You know this.

Now if we had to add up the mics... guess which of those two groups would have more?

But they "obviously" biased tho'... and you still ain't answer my question...

So I guess I'm biased too. And you biased. And everybody that has albums/artists/songs they like better than others is biased.

i dont know. you tell me who would have more.

what question?

@Wacky D on the ropes right now? Will our breh bounce back??

 

[Wacky D]

^^^^^

nah. i asked him what question cuz theres so much coming at me.

onyx doesnt reasonate with backpackers. too rowdy, and they dont appeal to them at all. hell, they dont even give MOP their props, and theyre closer to being up their alley than onyx.

:nikkapls::nikkapls: nothing after 98 worth putting on that list??


about half of those would stay

 

[DANJ!]

^^^^^

nah. i asked him what question cuz theres so much coming at me.

onyx doesnt reasonate with backpackers. too rowdy, and they dont appeal to them at all. hell, they dont even give MOP their props, and theyre closer to being up their alley than onyx.

MOP has gotten props from the Source since they featured 'How About Some Hardcore' as a Sure Shot Single when it dropped. C'mon breh. Seriously.

And they gave Onyx props too... not the highest ratings in the world, but it's not like they shytted on 'em either.

We just talkin' in circles now, breh. I done gave you countless artists most "backpackers" don't rock with, and you still conveniently actin' like it's not true or you don't know.

And if you had to add up MC Eiht/Quik/E40/Too Short/etc. ratings compared to Common/Ras Kass/Hiero/OC type shyt... the Cali non-backpack shyt wins.

 

[Ashtrey]

Doggystyle should have got at least 4.5 ... the East bias was obvious in that one. All the other shyt is arguable but that rating was obviously hating especially with the wack ass reasoning of why it wasn't a classic by the writer.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

i didnt start feeling a bit more comfortable with the source's ratings of other styles until the hot boys came thru and got 4 1/2.

thats the benzino era. THE APEX OF THE BENZINO ERA.

@DaveyDave




everybody has fans.

but doggystyle is a general consensus goat contender. you cant say that about any tribe album.

The Low End Theory and Midnight Marauders are undeniable classics. If you don't like them you just don't like Tribe

 

[intilectual recipricol]

The Low End Theory and Midnight Marauders are undeniable classics. If you don't like them you just don't like Tribe

 

[BmoreGorilla]

what do you mean kast albums(plural)? i was just referring to aquemini. that chit is a 3.5 at best.
i dont know what atliens got(i'd give it a 4) but its better than made men regardless.
spcm is their classic, but it shouldnt have got 4.5 out the gate when theres superior albums that got lesser(sometimes way lesser) ratings.

im drawing blanks on the 4.5s right now. i guess i gotta go digging in my old mags.

i dont like tribe's debut at all. not 5 mic material.





so nice you had to quote it twice ehh?

theres a fine line between preference & bias.

doggystyle is clearly superior to midnight marauders. so yea, if midnight got a higher rating, then theres biased there.

That's a matter of opinion tho. Both of them are classic albums. That's a toss up for me. Its not like comparing Wu to Bone. Wu being better was just a fact but that's a debate for another day

 

[DANJ!]

Doggystyle should have got at least 4.5 ... the East bias was obvious in that one. All the other shyt is arguable but that rating was obviously hating especially with the wack ass reasoning of why it wasn't a classic by the writer.

So every other rating except THIS ONE is subjective...???

I agree- I'll say I expected a 4.5. Didn't expect a 5 cause at the time, all the best shyt got 4.5, but never the 5. So I was prepared to see the 4.5. I was surprised by the 4.

But do I think it was hate? From the same mag that spent the entirety of '93 hyping Snoop to astronomical levels? Nah. If anything, they thought he was gonna make the best thing in all of music of all time. If you read the mag back then, they were ramping this thing up to be "the wheel". This is why the "East bias" to me is bullshyt... because The Chronic was a Cali album that got bumped everywhere including NY, even on mixtapes (and most NY mixtape DJs indeed WERE NY-biased). Chronic (and NWA albums before that) were albums that broke thru big on the East... and Snoop was anticipated across the board. And The Source in particular were sweatin' Snoop's shyt that whole year.

 

[Taadow]

it was noted that Bow Down was the best Cube project in a long time.

It deserves a 5, doe.

 

[Wacky D]

MOP has gotten props from the Source since they featured 'How About Some Hardcore' as a Sure Shot Single when it dropped. C'mon breh. Seriously.

And they gave Onyx props too... not the highest ratings in the world, but it's not like they shytted on 'em either.

We just talkin' in circles now, breh. I done gave you countless artists most "backpackers" don't rock with, and you still conveniently actin' like it's not true or you don't know.

And if you had to add up MC Eiht/Quik/E40/Too Short/etc. ratings compared to Common/Ras Kass/Hiero/OC type shyt... the Cali non-backpack shyt wins.

im talking ratings with MOP/Onyx. not none of that other chit. by that logic, EVERYBODY gets props in the source.

was the last statement the question that youre referring to? it prolly got lost in the midst of the 100s of replies i was doing at once.

how many mics did eiht & e-40 get on their debuts? not when they were established and given the obligatory 4 while they were still at or near their peaks. thats just common practice. i'd be impressed if mc eiht got a 4 1/2 for one of his classics or arguable classics(whichever term you prefer). a 4 while he was coming off of mennace II society doesnt impress me. im not gonna ask about too short because he pre-dated the mics. and quik might have gotten a good rating, cuz he was getting east coast love with his debut. but shoot, what did he get anyway?

on the other side of town, outside of souls of mischief, i dont recall any of those other albums really being notable, even amongst backpackers. im surprised rass kass didnt get at least a 3 1/2 tho.