EDIT: SOURCE MAGAZINE BIAS PROVEN TO BE MYTH - Source Top 100 Albums list

[mobbinfms]

There was a bias as far as a lot of west coast albums, and southern joints not getting their proper due in reviews. The Cheojic only 4.5 and the song they complain about is Little Ghetto Boy!!?!?

I don't remember specifics but east coast albums might get a half a mic or full mic extra where a west coast album might get the same less for no real reason except it's from the west. Not necessarily being bumped up to 5 mics but maybe from an average 3.5 up to 4 or 4.5 it's a big difference.

need album examples to compare for that claim

We definitely need all the examples. We should try to put this to bed.

...that I can't believe as a 90s kid, I took the words of the Source, as Hip-Hop's gospel

You thought the list was that bad?

It's funny looking back on it - outside of older brothers/cousins - the Source was really the only place you could go to get information on hip hop history. Nowadays you could google "classic rap records" and probably get a great list of albums to get. You hear someone reference Kool G Rap on a record, you can look him up on wikipedia and then go listen to all his albums on youtube. Back then, if you didn't know people who knew what was up, the Source might be your only source of information.

ANother thing I noticed - the list has the first two ROots and Kast albums - but didn't include two Mobb albums (as if htey were taking the position that Kast and the Roots were better).

 

[awcommand]

KEEP PLAYING with me... imma release the new update, it's real shyt nikka....

 

[Wacky D]

That Benzino shyt was a joke man. It was. It was abuse of power, a lack in integrity, and hypocrisy all rolled into one. For one, the Source's staff changed like three different times in the 90s. You think a nikka driving away the best writers he had so he can push his agenda is good for a magazine that had already established a rock solid reputation? OK, I guess...

I still don't see the bias angle tho'. They gave props to good albums, dissed wack albums, sometimes over/underrated lots of albums, but it was lots of different artists with different sounds from different places. At what point does it become bias? I don't really recall them slamming anything that was actually good, and the only thing I recall them grossly overrating that nobody gave a shyt about was that Made Men joint. I think them dudes were fair more often than not... even artists they praised weren't immune to bad reviews when they put out shyt that wasn't on the mark. LL got bad reviews, PE got bad reviews, KRS got a bad review, Cube got a bad review... I don't see where you're goin' with the "they picked what catered to their tastes"- so their taste kept one Bone album out, but allowed one in... or Pac's best 2 albums in, but his 3rd best out? The artists you're claimin' were snubbed weren't even snubbed!

And I ain't even gonna talk about how u think that Made Men shyt was better than albums that got 5. You must be talkin' about the Lil' Kim shyt (another by-product of Zino and Mays' bullshyt)

a bunch of beating around the bush & repetition here.

yes. when you only get 1 slot, but artists that you were way bigger & more important than get 2 slots, then hell yes youre being snubbed. you on some "thank you for the table scraps, massuh jenkins" type stuff.

zino had nothing to do with lil kim. and shoot, that kim album was better than the stuff that got 5 mics after zino & mayes got the boot,.

and aquemini got 5 mics(and nobody cared) not longer before the made men fiasco. and the made men joint was just as good as that album, so hell yea, if i own this chit and that gets 5, then im taking at least 4 1/2 for my joint.

I dont know man... I truthfully didn't have convos like that back then with that word being used. I have it now with fellow oldheads nshyt, we use it cause we old nshyt But back then? Just talkin' to regular dudes on some music tip. That classic word wasn't being used period, let alone about some relatively new shyt. I mean we can get on here now and say this is classic, that's classic... I'm just speakin' in terms of actual convos, nobody I knew was all "this is CLASSIC!"

this really isnt the point tho.

the bottom line is, you knew how people felt about those albums. so years later, when the time came to reminisce, you know which ones were classics, and which ones are just personal opinions.

so for some of those albums FROM THAT EXACT TIMEFRAME to be up there ahead of e.99 eternal & all eyez on me, and others, man thats some bullchit. and you know it. thats why you skated past acknowledging it in your previous post.

 

[mobbinfms]

a bunch of beating around the bush & repetition here.

yes. when you only get 1 slot, but artists that you were way bigger & more important than get 2 slots, then hell yes youre being snubbed. you on some "thank you for the table scraps, massuh jenkins" type stuff.

zino had nothing to do with lil kim. and shoot, that kim album was better than the stuff that got 5 mics after zino & mayes got the boot,.

and aquemini got 5 mics(and nobody cared) not longer before the made men fiasco. and the made men joint was just as good as that album, so hell yea, if i own this chit and that gets 5, then im taking at least 4 1/2 for my joint.




this really isnt the point tho.

the bottom line is, you knew how people felt about those albums. so years later, when the time came to reminisce, you know which ones were classics, and which ones are just personal opinions.

so for some of those albums FROM THAT EXACT TIMEFRAME to be up there ahead of e.99 eternal & all eyez on me, and others, man thats some bullchit. and you know it. thats why you skated past acknowledging it in your previous post.

For the record - and I think you know this - Pac did get two slots. And AEOM wasn't felt by the critics like that. It was considered to lack substance. Pac making a death row album. In CA it was the largest album I've ever seen and ever will see.
People loved that Outkast album in real time.
E.99 wasn't considered a classic at the time. It's grown in stature. Kind of like IWW. The source was really throwing a bone even giving them one slot. They weren't considered elite in real time. Being big and important doesn't mean your the best.

 

[Wacky D]

i'll have to play both sides of the fence on this fugees argument. fugees album was thurl and all. and i dont mind it being on the list.

but people acting like it was running the game on some hip-hop chit need to stop. yea it was popular and they were indeed top-tier but they werent on some mind-blowing amazing chit, outside of maybe the shock value of lauryn.

in other words, i'll just address the elephant in the room. if it wasnt for lauryn's singing, this wouldve been a gold album at best. and the purists stayed off their asses because they were on some "real hip-hop" chit.

yea, it was prolly a classic. i havnt heard it since like '97, so i cant speak on it. but lets not act like they were wutang either.

........but they sure as hell were the group that outkast fans try to make outkast out to be in hindsight.pachaha: you know i had to throw that in there.

For the record - and I think you know this - Pac did get two slots. And AEOM wasn't felt by the critics like that. It was considered to lack substance. Pac making a death row album. In CA it was the largest album I've ever seen and ever will see.
People loved that Outkast album in real time.
E.99 wasn't considered a classic at the time. It's grown in stature. Kind of like IWW. The source was really throwing a bone even giving them one slot. They weren't considered elite in real time. Being big and important doesn't mean your the best.

pac got 2 slots, but he shouldve had 3. we aint settling for table scraps like its the 1400s. we're tired of these corny journalists with their bias views. thats why theres so much f*ck chit getting high ratings now. im taking no shorts. they just didnt want pac to have more joints up there than biggie. meanwhile, lesser acts are sitting comfortably with 3 nods.

AEOM had plenty of substance. this is why i never took these critics seriously.

people loved that outkast album? what people? their fans? thats about it.

then you turn around and say this chitty-chit about bone when their album was way more loved than that outkast chit. only people that fronted were east coastish elitists. and the chit was still big on the east coast, and got more bump on the east coast than any outkast album. so you tell me who really loved what in real-time.

man im not tryna here none of this culture-vulture talk. thats what ur pushing, whether you realize it or not.

ANother thing I noticed - the list has the first two ROots and Kast albums - but didn't include two Mobb albums (as if htey were taking the position that Kast and the Roots were better).

this is what we've been trying to tell you.

i guess it took mobb deep getting slighted for you to wake up.

 

[DANJ!]

a bunch of beating around the bush & repetition here.

yes. when you only get 1 slot, but artists that you were way bigger & more important than get 2 slots, then hell yes youre being snubbed. you on some "thank you for the table scraps, massuh jenkins" type stuff.

zino had nothing to do with lil kim. and shoot, that kim album was better than the stuff that got 5 mics after zino & mayes got the boot,.

and aquemini got 5 mics(and nobody cared) not longer before the made men fiasco. and the made men joint was just as good as that album, so hell yea, if i own this chit and that gets 5, then im taking at least 4 1/2 for my joint.




this really isnt the point tho.

the bottom line is, you knew how people felt about those albums. so years later, when the time came to reminisce, you know which ones were classics, and which ones are just personal opinions.

so for some of those albums FROM THAT EXACT TIMEFRAME to be up there ahead of e.99 eternal & all eyez on me, and others, man thats some bullchit. and you know it. thats why you skated past acknowledging it in your previous post.

You're kinda a mark for BTNH tho', so of course you'd think there was some deep-seated wrongdoing just cause they didn't get both albums in the list. And I don't care what they sold, I don't think they were hardly "way more important" than PE or Rakim...

I don't skate past anything bruh... of course the shyt is mostly based on opinion. That's what any list, rating, etc. is based on for damn near any publication. Even your own lists you do on here are based on your own opinion. You're sayin' this like it's some criminal thing that maybe whoever the team was at the Source at the time didn't love E.1999 enough to say it was a top 100 album. IMO, it was a very good album, but that Creepin' shyt was flawless and totally different from anything out at the time (that I knew of at least). The impact of that EP alone tops E.1999. The album was moreso a continuation of what had already made impact. Now, that's simply my opinion, based on the fact of what happened when Creepin' took off. Am I being "biased" cause I think the EP definitely deserved a spot, whereas the album MAYBE deserved one? Or is it just preference?

And fukk that Made Men album shyt. You ride hard for Benzino's mediocrity like none other... the best and worst thing he ever did was strongarm Mays into letting him become part of the Source... and managing to secure like 15 record deals while he did it.

 

[DANJ!]

And at that rant you just went on... we ain't takin' table scraps

Go find the guys who wrote at the Source one by one and tell 'em what "y'all" ain't takin'. Maybe they'll get back together, start a new mag and do a new top 100 for you. Might even throw in the Made Men album.

 

[Wacky D]

You're kinda a mark for BTNH tho', so of course you'd think there was some deep-seated wrongdoing just cause they didn't get both albums in the list. And I don't care what they sold, I don't think they were hardly "way more important" than PE or Rakim...

I don't skate past anything bruh... of course the shyt is mostly based on opinion. That's what any list, rating, etc. is based on for damn near any publication. Even your own lists you do on here are based on your own opinion. You're sayin' this like it's some criminal thing that maybe whoever the team was at the Source at the time didn't love E.1999 enough to say it was a top 100 album. IMO, it was a very good album, but that Creepin' shyt was flawless and totally different from anything out at the time (that I knew of at least). The impact of that EP alone tops E.1999. The album was moreso a continuation of what had already made impact. Now, that's simply my opinion, based on the fact of what happened when Creepin' took off. Am I being "biased" cause I think the EP definitely deserved a spot, whereas the album MAYBE deserved one? Or is it just preference?

And fukk that Made Men album shyt. You ride hard for Benzino's mediocrity like none other... the best and worst thing he ever did was strongarm Mays into letting him become part of the Source... and managing to secure like 15 record deals while he did it.

im a mark for nobody. the bottom line is that they shouldve had no less than 2 joints on there. and theres artists on there with multiple nods that were out at the same time and couldnt carry their towel. and yes, you definitely skated past that, which was my main point. and youre blatantly ignoring the groups i mentioned and replacing them with groups from different eras who i didnt even mention. also, lets not act like bone is the only group im vouching for in this thread.

what does PE & rakim have to do with this? youre putting words on my keyboard on the slick.

thats the point!!!! its based on THEIR opinions. this is what ive been saying the whole time. i never fell for that "hip-hop bible" nonsense. its the opinions of backpackers & elitists, alot of them being outsiders.

i ride hard for benzino's mediocrity how? youre reaching for straws.

 

[DANJ!]

im a mark for nobody. the bottom line is that they shouldve had no less than 2 joints on there. and theres artists on there with multiple nods that were out at the same time and couldnt carry their towel. and yes, you definitely skated past that, which was my main point. and youre blatantly ignoring the groups i mentioned and replacing them with groups from different eras who i didnt even mention. also, lets not act like bone is the only group im vouching for in this thread.

what does PE & rakim have to do with this? youre putting words on my keyboard on the slick.

thats the point!!!! its based on THEIR opinions. this is what ive been saying the whole time. i never fell for that "hip-hop bible" nonsense. its the opinions of backpackers & elitists, alot of them being outsiders.

i ride hard for benzino's mediocrity how? youre reaching for straws.

It's THE SOURCE'S top 100 albums... who else's opinion is it supposed to be based on? Rolling Stone's? Vibe's? Ego Trip? Word Up?

No different than BET's top video countdowns... no different than the Ego Trip Book of Rap Lists... no different than Wacky D's top 285 whatever... it's the opinion of whomever compiled the fukkin list... just cause it doesn't align with your opinion doesn't mean it's some "elitist bull chitty chit"... you comical with this... so your opinion is steeped in nothing but fact, but a mag's opinion is just bias and ulterior motive? Stop, breh.

And really, if it never mattered to you, why you ready to start a united front against a 17-year-old list of albums?

 

[aboss4real24]

South nggas mad cuz they only got like 2 albums on the list LMAO

 

[Wacky D]

It's THE SOURCE'S top 100 albums... who else's opinion is it supposed to be based on? Rolling Stone's? Vibe's? Ego Trip? Word Up?

No different than BET's top video countdowns... no different than the Ego Trip Book of Rap Lists... no different than Wacky D's top 285 whatever... it's the opinion of whomever compiled the fukkin list... just cause it doesn't align with your opinion doesn't mean it's some "elitist bull chitty chit"... you comical with this... so your opinion is steeped in nothing but fact, but a mag's opinion is just bias and ulterior motive? Stop, breh.

And really, if it never mattered to you, why you ready to start a united front against a 17-year-old list of albums?

its not about that.

its about you acting like there isnt a clear bias here.

 

[DANJ!]

its not about that.

its about you acting like there isnt a clear bias here.

Cause there isn't...

The bias is what... they weren't crazy enough about AEOM to consider it as good as the two other Pac albums? Well guess what: it wasn't just them. Or is the bias that they loved one Bone album but weren't as crazy about the other?

Y'know, if they actually had some kinda inner grudge against those artists, they could've not included any of their shyt and the worst that coulda happened is they got some letters about how wrong they were... it wasn't a mandate.

shyt, they supported and CONSISTENTLY bigged up Mobb Deep on the regular. In fact, featured them in "Unsigned Hype" and were technically responsible for them signing their first deal. Also gave their 2nd, 3rd, AND 4th albums a 4.5 rating. There's only one Mobb album on the list. Bias, right?

The only true form of "bias" is the same thing I've been saying. They leaned further toward albums that were much older. Because again, that era was romanticized waaaay more than recent history was at the time... and not just by them, but even by the artists of that time.

 

[mobbinfms]

i'll have to play both sides of the fence on this fugees argument. fugees album was thurl and all. and i dont mind it being on the list.

but people acting like it was running the game on some hip-hop chit need to stop. yea it was popular and they were indeed top-tier but they werent on some mind-blowing amazing chit, outside of maybe the shock value of lauryn.

in other words, i'll just address the elephant in the room. if it wasnt for lauryn's singing, this wouldve been a gold album at best. and the purists stayed off their asses because they were on some "real hip-hop" chit.

yea, it was prolly a classic. i havnt heard it since like '97, so i cant speak on it. but lets not act like they were wutang either.

........but they sure as hell were the group that outkast fans try to make outkast out to be in hindsight.pachaha: you know i had to throw that in there.





pac got 2 slots, but he shouldve had 3. we aint settling for table scraps like its the 1400s. we're tired of these corny journalists with their bias views. thats why theres so much f*ck chit getting high ratings now. im taking no shorts. they just didnt want pac to have more joints up there than biggie. meanwhile, lesser acts are sitting comfortably with 3 nods.

AEOM had plenty of substance. this is why i never took these critics seriously.

people loved that outkast album? what people? their fans? thats about it.

then you turn around and say this chitty-chit about bone when their album was way more loved than that outkast chit. only people that fronted were east coastish elitists. and the chit was still big on the east coast.

man im not tryna here none of this culture-vulture talk.




this is what we've been trying to tell you.

i guess it took mobb deep getting slighted for you to wake up.

You've got a real weak argument for bias if the argument is Pac should have had three instead of two. And why do you keep saying it was about Biggie? If it was a east west thing wouldn't they have put more Nas, Mobb and Wu? Why have as many west coast albums?

What lesser acts had three? And does it matter if the acts are lesser if the albums were good enough to be on the list?

Nobody talked about Bone like they were elite at the time. It wasn't - who's the best emcees Biggie Jay-Z and Wish Bone. They were popular and people loved the singles and the style - but they weren't in the conversation about who was the best. Not in 95-97.

And I pointed out the thing about Mobb not having two because it's interesting that they had Roots and Kast ahead of them. The Source were huge Mobb supporters. And I didn't bytch about it either - at the end of the day - thinking about how HOE was received in real time - I get it.

Also - outside of the two albums (Bone and AEOM) do you have any major qualms with the list? Can you think of a similar list that's better?

 

[Wacky D]

Cause there isn't...

The bias is what... they weren't crazy enough about AEOM to consider it as good as the two other Pac albums? Well guess what: it wasn't just them. Or is the bias that they loved one Bone album but weren't as crazy about the other?

Y'know, if they actually had some kinda inner grudge against those artists, they could've not included any of their shyt and the worst that coulda happened is they got some letters about how wrong they were... it wasn't a mandate.

shyt, they supported and CONSISTENTLY bigged up Mobb Deep on the regular. In fact, featured them in "Unsigned Hype" and were technically responsible for them signing their first deal. Also gave their 2nd, 3rd, AND 4th albums a 4.5 rating. There's only one Mobb album on the list. Bias, right?

The only true form of "bias" is the same thing I've been saying. They leaned further toward albums that were much older. Because again, that era was romanticized waaaay more than recent history was at the time... and not just by them, but even by the artists of that time.

nonsense. they had to include them. but they threw shade. if you want to be in denial about it, be my guest. im not playing this game anymore. people already spelled the bias out for you.

compare the importance & impact of "hell on earth" to e.99 eternal & AEOM brehs.

they did the old school dirty on this list actually, altho i do see the favoritism towards the late '80s/early '90s, but some of the older acts got done DIRTY. we can go back n forth about that if you want. im not arguing with you about the other stuff anymore tho.

You've got a real weak argument for bias if the argument is Pac should have had three instead of two. And why do you keep saying it was about Biggie? If it was a east west thing wouldn't they have put more Nas, Mobb and Wu? Why have as many west coast albums?
What lesser acts had three? And does it matter if the acts are lesser if the albums were good enough to be on the list?
Nobody talked about Bone like they were elite at the time. It wasn't - who's the best emcees Biggie Jay-Z and Wish Bone. They were popular and people loved the singles and the style - but they weren't in the conversation about who was the best. Not in 95-97.
And I pointed out the thing about Mobb not having two because it's interesting that they had Roots and Kast ahead of them. The Source were huge Mobb supporters. And I didn't bytch about it either - at the end of the day - thinking about how HOE was received in real time - I get it.
Also - outside of the two albums (Bone and AEOM) do you have any major qualms with the list? Can you think of a similar list that's better?

because biggie is synonymous with pac. not the others. and it doesnt even have to be about biggie. they prolly just felt some type of way about pac having 3.

i forgot what was on this list exactly. but i already listed my snubs and who didnt need to have 3. i know tribe was one of them.

if you think bone wasnt considered elite at the time, then you either mustve stayed in the house or you think "elite" means getting propped up by out-of-touch elitists. nobody said they were in the conversation for best singular emcees. they were in the conversation for BEST GROUP!!!!!! it was all about bone thugs n wutang. what yall think, that chit started on the coli? you ride for mobb deep, yea they were top-tier but they werent quite in that debate unless you from up top. and lol @ outkast and the roots. no need to even humor the thought of them being placed in such category. and man, i dont like dissin the roots. look what yall made me do.

and this "yea they were popular but" argument is just some weak elitist chit. once you hit a certain level of popularity on the streets, you are indeed amongst the elite.

compare "hell on earth" to e.99 eternal & AEOM brehs.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

they dont hear you @Wacky D these nikkaz not smart. plain and simple. The Source always has been trash. Ratings never been worth a damn