Does the large Caribbean presence in NYC's Hip Hop scene explain the disconnect with other regions?

[Ish Gibor]

Sad how people are ignorant of Black entertainment culture and history. Anyway, the US mainland has influenced the Caribbean and vice versa.

Why? Because during the '60s, '70s and '80s even '90s we have Pan Africanism going on.


Hip Hop culture is a mixed bag of Black Americans (already in the States update 01-2021- ADOS/ FBA) and Black Caribbeans (immigrants). But mostly ADOS/ FBA influenced.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

old thread/post but

The thing a lot of folks don't understand bout DIsco/Dance, was the Gay scene was literally just following the footsteps of the Black party scene back then.

Studio 54, the loft, and all them famed Disco had nothing but Black djs(Flowers, Pete Jones etc). All the shiit they was playing, them tunes were already months or years old in the Black club world.

It irks me a bit when folks try to give so much credit to Gays for Disco and later House, when the foundations were in the Parks, random clubs, community centers. Where it was just Black Djs spinning to a regular Black crowd

Like this for example

Listen to NU SOUNDS LIVE AT ST GABRIELS 6/11/77 by hass718 #np on #SoundCloud

yup....the gay scene has more "white" djs and those clubs with white djs usually had more integrated crowds which led to them getting more mainstream coverage than the black mobile jocks/most black disco clubs. This is also why black djs like Frankie Knuckles and Levan are more known in the mainstream (white world) than the likes of Grand Master Flowers

article from 1974

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this guy talks about seeing Flowers mixing with 2 turntables in a black club in the mid 1960s....this is years before the white gay dudes came along in the late 1960s

 

[IllmaticDelta]

This is interesting to me, because I noticed it too. I think it may have something to do with the fact that when certain shyt hit the gay scene, it was more economically viable, making it seem more "real." Like the gay community, being outcasts and insular, created their own scenes where they spent money and had powerful, well off people involved. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

facts!...plus there was a Italian Mafia-connected stronghold in many of those real popular Discos

According to Nicky Siano (2018), another element that ensured jobs for Italian-Americans was the structural infiltration of the Mafia in NYC’s nightlife fabric: «What is the Mafia infamous for? Hiring their own! You’re Italian? Oh, You’ve got the job!

D.I.S.C.O. (Diasporic Influences Shaped Changes and Opportunities) | norient.com

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I've moved past the point, the premise of the thread was to question why the dominant Hip Hop culture in NY is so vastly different from the dominant Hip Hop culture in other regions. It occurred to me that the demographics in NY's black population are pretty vastly different from other regions and to an extent that's represented fairly notably in its Hip Hop population, clearly New Yorkers (or at least the AA ones) don't think that's the reason though.

The NY population that birthed the cultural backdrop to the early days of HipHop was overwhelmingly Southern in origin



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this why herc immersed himself in Afram dj club/culture and playlists

and basically "Aframnized" his Jamaican heritage to fit in

...you can hear this straight from herc's childhood friends



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the perceived disconnect of NYC to other regions as I said before, is based on the ancestral stock of NY Aframs (mainly upper south) vs most other places outside of the North East being populated with heavy gulf coast Afram stocks. This extends to HipHop music too: There is no real Upper South HipHop style outside of GoGo (pretty much live funk w/ call and response raps) music and the Pharell & Timbo (very influential in bringing southern bounce feel to mainstream) sounds. The Deep South is where all the innovative Southern HipHop came from and that's pretty much all Gulf Coast.

the black people in the midwest and west coast are heavily rooted in the same places that produced all of the distinct and innovative Southern sounds, which allows to relate in a way that NYC blacks wouldn't as much.

related thread

Why Was Crucial Conflict Trying To Pretend That Chicago Was The Country?!

 

[Ish Gibor]

@IllmaticDelta, Indeed Coke La Rock stated that he’s from the South, as did Sha Rock.

That’s at least two founders / pioneers who I’ve heard them say this themselves.

Sha-Rock - Wikipedia
Coke La Rock - Wikipedia


Enjoy,







Btw, what do you know about the old ADOS population from New York? They have been there for hundreds of years till present day, if correct.

The Maerschalck map of the City of New York is a historic map made in 1754 that clearly shows the African Burial Ground and its surrounding neighborhood

African Burial Ground National Monument (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[UberEatsDriver]

So is Miami disconnected as well?

 

[IllmaticDelta]

So is Miami disconnected as well?

foundational miami/florida hiphop is southern as fuk

 

[IllmaticDelta]

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the perceived disconnect of NYC to other regions as I said before, is based on the ancestral stock of NY Aframs (mainly upper south) vs most other places outside of the North East being populated with heavy golf coast Afram stocks. This extends to HipHop music too: There is no real Upper South HipHop style outside of GoGo (pretty much live funk w/ call and response raps) music and the Pharell & Timbo (very influential in bringing southern bounce feel to mainstream) sounds. The Deep South is where all the innovative Southern HipHop came from and that's pretty much all Gulf Coast.

the black people in the midwest and west coast are heavily rooted in the same places that produced all of the distinct and innovative Southern sounds, which allows to relate in a way that NYC blacks wouldn't as much.

related thread

Why Was Crucial Conflict Trying To Pretend That Chicago Was The Country?!

see:

 

[UberEatsDriver]

foundational miami/florida hiphop is southern as fuk

just asking cause most of their rappers seem to be from an island

 

[IllmaticDelta]

just asking cause most of their rappers seem to be from an island

The West Indian Florida rappers are heavily Southernized, so they fit in with all those regions that the NYC hiphop scene traditionally called "country"

 

[jilla82]

I remember as a kid my dad saying he noticed black folks in the northeast dont acknowledge each other as much we do in other parts of the country.

He hypothesized it was because of the high amount of Caribbeans in the area.

Thread is interesting

 

[Ish Gibor]

foundational miami/florida hiphop is southern as fuk

At first Miami bass was looked down upon by most.

 

[get these nets]

There was an old thread about the RZA making public comments about the South being less educated, yada, yada.

He got checked publicly by Jay Electronica ,D. Banner and others.

All three of them are fully AA.

RZA Addresses Comments About The South That Offended Jay Electronica

If this hasn't been brought up already, this is a bogus thread. People have convenient amnesia and are scapegoating immigrants,

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I remember as a kid my dad saying he noticed black folks in the northeast dont acknowledge each other as much we do in other parts of the country.

He hypothesized it was because of the high amount of Caribbeans in the area.

Thread is interesting

It's because people get to the NYC (or big cities in general) and start acting like they're the shyt simply because of where they live which leads to them becoming less approachable/welcoming

 

[IllmaticDelta]

There was an old thread about the RZA making public comments about the South being less educated, yada, yada.

He got checked publicly by Jay Electronica ,D. Banner and others.

All three of them are fully AA.

RZA Addresses Comments About The South That Offended Jay Electronica

which is funny considering he made this song

If this hasn't been brought up already, this is a bogus thread. People have convenient amnesia and are scapegoating immigrants,

I think the OP is from the West Coast...his perception of NYC is probably skewed by more recent demo shifts