Does the large Caribbean presence in NYC's Hip Hop scene explain the disconnect with other regions?

Budda

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you know who garvey was influenced by and who layed the groundwork for him, right?:mjpls:

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www.workers.org/2007/us/detroit1967-0816/




Pan-African News Wire: The Expanding United States Economic and Military Role in Africa

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The Long March to Unity

From a group of black people with aspiration for the integration of the black society all over the world to the establishment of OAU, the later AU, Pan Africanism has come a long way through centuries. Here are the milestone happenings in the history of Pan Africanism.

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The Long March to Unity

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Influence is influence there is nothing new under the sun, every Father has a mother, there were people even before the ones you named who proposed theories of Pan Africanism, Ottabah Cugoano, Equiano to name a few, Garvey was different though, out of all those named hes star shone the brightest and he was the biggest direct influence on all the prominent civil rights leaders of the early 20th century, trying to play patriotism and paint Afram has the founders of everything good by blacks in the new world doesn't get anybody anywhere, we know African Americans created Hip Hop and most modern music, yet we also know Jamaicans a nation of 2m people, in relation to its size has probably had the most profound influence on modern black culture, of any nation, at the end of the day i don't really care either way.
 

IllmaticDelta

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Still in this thread fighting facts.
Let's bring back some key points:


Reggae is a direct DESCENDANT of American R&B
Ska is a direct DESCENDANT of American R&B
Rocksteady is a direct DESCENDANT of American R&B

Hip hop is the child of Funk/Poetry/Disco.
There is nothing Jamaican about it.
There is something hip hop and R&B about dancehall.


These can all be backed up historically. Anything else in the thread is petty fukkery. Stop trying to rewrite our history, we don't need your love. You sure need our validation.
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these are 100%

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IllmaticDelta

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Influence is influence there is nothing new under the sun, every Father has a mother, there were people even before the ones you named who proposed theories of Pan Africanism, Ottabah Cugoano, Equiano to name a few,

Pan-Africanism we know it, is an American creation

Pan-Africanism

Pan-Africanism, the idea that peoples of African descent have common interests and should be unified. Historically, Pan-Africanism has often taken the shape of a political or cultural movement. There are many varieties of Pan-Africanism. In its narrowest political manifestation, Pan-Africanists envision a unified African nation where all people of the African diaspora can live. (African diaspora refers to the long-term historical process by which people of African descent have been scattered from their ancestral homelands to other parts of the world.) In more-general terms, Pan-Africanism is the sentiment that people of African descent have a great deal in common, a fact that deserves notice and even celebration.

History of Pan-Africanist intellectuals
Pan-Africanist ideas first began to circulate in the mid-19th century in the United States, led by Africans from the Western Hemisphere. The most important early Pan-Africanists were Martin Delany and Alexander Crummel, both African Americans, and Edward Blyden, a West Indian.

Those early voices for Pan-Africanism emphasized the commonalities between Africans and black people in the United States. Delany, who believed that black people could not prosper alongside whites, advocated the idea that African Americans should separate from the United States and establish their own nation. Crummel and Blyden, both contemporaries of Delany, thought that Africa was the best place for that new nation. Motivated by Christian missionary zeal, the two believed that Africans in the New World should return to their homelands and convert and civilize the inhabitants there.

Although the ideas of Delany, Crummel, and Blyden are important, the true father of modern Pan-Africanism was the influential thinker W.E.B. Du Bois. Throughout his long career, Du Bois was a consistent advocate for the study of African history and culture. In the early 20th century, he was most prominent among the few scholars who studied Africa. His statement, made at the turn of the 20th century, that “the problem of the twentieth century is the problem of the color line” was made with Pan-Africanist sentiments in mind.

For Du Bois, “the problem of the color line” was not confined merely to the United States and its “Negro Problem.” (During those years, it was common for many in the United States to refer to the problem of African Americans’ social status as the “Negro Problem.”) Du Bois’s famous statement was made with the clear knowledge that many Africans living on the African continent suffered under the yoke of European colonial rule.

Among the more-important Pan-Africanist thinkers of the first decades of the 20th century was Jamaican-born black nationalist Marcus Garvey. In the years after World War I, Garvey championed the cause of African independence, emphasizing the positive attributes of black people’s collective past. His organization, the Universal Negro Improvement Association (UNIA), boasted millions of members, envisioning and then making plans for a return “back to Africa.” Garvey’s Black Star Line, a shipping company established in part to transport blacks back to Africa as well as to facilitate global black commerce, was ultimately unsuccessful.

From the 1920s through the 1940s, among the most-prominent black intellectuals who advocated Pan-Africanist ideas were C.L.R. James and George Padmore, both of whom came from Trinidad. From the 1930s until his death in 1959, Padmore was one of the leading theorists of Pan-African ideas. Also influential were Léopold Senghor and Aimé Césaire, who were natives of Senegal and Martinique, respectively. A disciple of Padmore, Jomo Kenyatta of Kenya, was also an important figure in Pan-Africanist thought.

Despite their origins outside the United States, such Pan-Africanist thinkers drew many of their ideas from African American culture. Furthermore, James and Padmore resided in the United States for significant periods of time. An exchange of ideas about Africa and peoples of African descent took place between those intellectuals and African Americans, with African Americans taking the lead. It was, in many ways, a black Atlantic intellectual community. Senghor and Césaire, in particular, were greatly influenced by Du Bois and by several Harlem Renaissance writers, especially Countee Cullen, Langston Hughes, and Claude McKay. In the 1930s and ’40s, the African American actor and singer Paul Robeson was also a significant contributor to the continuing exchange of ideas.

By the late 1940s the African American intellectual leadership of the movement had receded, with Africans now taking the lead. That was due in part to the leftist or communist sympathies of many Pan-Africanist advocates, as in the late 1940s and early ’50s, the United States was in the midst of a Red Scare, when Americans with communist affiliations or sympathies were actively persecuted and prosecuted. The most-important figure of this period was Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana, who believed that European colonial rule of Africa could be extinguished if Africans could unite politically and economically. Nkrumah went on to lead the movement for independence in Ghana, which came to fruition in 1957. Many African Americans cheered those developments in Africa.

Pan-Africanist cultural thinking reemerged with renewed force in the United States in the late 1960s and ’70s as one of the manifestations of the Black Power movement. By the early 1970s it had become relatively common for African Americans to investigate their African cultural roots and adopt African forms of cultural practice, especially African styles of dress.

In subsequent decades perhaps the most-prominent current of ideas that can be called Pan-Africanist has been the Afrocentric movement, as espoused by such black intellectuals as Molefi Asante of Temple University, Cheikh Anta Diop of Senegal, the American historian Carter G. Woodson, and Maulana Ron Karenga, the creator of Kwanzaa. With its roots in the 1960s, Afrocentrism gained particular popularity in the United States during the 1980s. The movement emphasizes African modes of thought and culture as a corrective to the long tradition of European cultural and intellectual domination.

The Pan-African Congress movement
During the 20th century advocates of Pan-Africanism made many efforts to institutionalize their ideas and to create formal organizations to complement the work of Pan-Africanist intellectuals. The first meeting designed to bring together peoples of African descent for the purpose of discussing Pan-Africanist ideas took place in London in 1900. The organizer was Henry Sylvester Williams, a native of Trinidad. The meeting was attended by several prominent blacks from Africa, Great Britain, the West Indies, and the United States. Du Bois was perhaps the most-prominent member of U.S. delegation.

The first formal Pan-African Congress (the first to bear that name) took place in 1919 in Paris and was called by Du Bois. That meeting was followed by a second Pan-African Congress two years later, which convened in three sessions in London, Brussels, and Paris. The most-important result of the second Pan-African Congress was the issuance of a declaration that criticized European colonial domination in Africa and lamented the unequal state of relations between white and black races, calling for a fairer distribution of the world’s resources. The declaration also challenged the rest of the world to either create conditions of equality in the places where people of African descent lived or recognize the “rise of a great African state founded in Peace and Goodwill.”

After a third Pan-African Congress in 1923 and then a fourth in 1927, the movement faded from the world picture until 1945, when a fifth Pan-African Congress was held in Manchester, England. Given that Pan-Africanist leadership had largely transferred from African Americans to Africans by the mid-1940s, Nkrumah, Kenyatta, and Padmore played the most-prominent roles at that congress. The only African American present was Du Bois.

With the coming of independence for many African countries in the decades following World War II, the cause of African unity was largely confined to the concerns of the African continent. The formation of the Organization for African Unity (OAU) in 1963 solidified African leadership, although a sixth Pan-African Congress was held in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, in 1974. A successor organization to the OAU, the African Union (AU), was launched in 2002 to further promote the social, political, and economic integration of Africa.

Calls for Pan-Africanism could still be heard in the United States at the turn of the 21st century, but by then the movement had generally come to stand for the unity of the countries on the African continent, especially sub-Saharan Africa.

Pan-Africanism



Garvey was different though, out of all those named hes star shone the brightest and he was the biggest direct influence on all the prominent civil rights leaders of the early 20th century,

Garvey wouldn't even have believed that:stopitslime:

W.E.B. Du Bois – The father of modern Pan-Africanism?

But this was not true. Du Bois was proud of his African ancestry and often talked of his African-born great grandfather, whom he said had been brought as a slave to America from the Gulf of Guinea. In 1923, Du Bois paid his first visit to Africa, to a region in Liberia where he believed his ancestors had come from. Despite Marcus Garvey’s attacks on him, Du Bois continued to be viewed by Africans as the father of modern pan-Africanism. His role in establishing the Pan-African Congresses and his agitation for an end to colonialism, made him an inspiration to many African leaders, among them Nigeria’s Nnamdi Azikiwe, who met him while a student in the US, and Ghana’s Kwame Nkrumah, who first met Du Bois at the 1945 Pan-African Congress in Britain. Also there was Kenya’s Jomo Kenyatta and Malawi’s Hastings Banda.

W.E.B. Du Bois - The father of modern Pan-Africanism?


Garvey knew what was up and who was laying down these foundations:sas2:

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trying to play patriotism and paint Afram has the founders of everything good by blacks in the new world doesn't get anybody anywhere,

I don't have to "try" anything. See above:skip:



we know African Americans created Hip Hop and most modern music, yet we also know Jamaicans a nation of 2m people, in relation to its size has probably had the most profound influence on modern black culture, of any nation, at the end of the day i don't really care either way.

Jamaica is very influential, they just aren't in the same league of influence as Aframs. Truth be told, Jamaica had no real global influence before the 1960's. Even Trinidad had a more globally known music in Calypso dating back decades prior. Jamaica didn't find their swag until they found inspiration from Afram culture. Afram's fathered North American popular music, The British Invasion and Jamaican popular music. The global influence is undeniable:pachaha:
 

Budda

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Pan-Africanism we know it, is an American creation

Pan-Africanism


Pan-Africanism





Garvey wouldn't even have believed that:stopitslime:

W.E.B. Du Bois – The father of modern Pan-Africanism?



W.E.B. Du Bois - The father of modern Pan-Africanism?


Garvey knew what was up and who was laying down these foundations:sas2:

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I don't have to "try" anything. See above:skip:





Jamaica is very influential, they just aren't in the same league of influence as Aframs. Truth be told, Jamaica had no real global influence before the 1960's. Even Trinidad had a more globally known music in Calypso dating back decades prior. Jamaica didn't find their swag until they found inspiration from Afram culture. Afram's fathered North American popular music, The British Invasion and Jamaican popular music. The global influence is undeniable:pachaha:

WEB DU BOIS isn't the father of Pan Africanism, unless you bestow both with the tile he was Garveys mulatto contemporary, viewed by what Africans? The same ones who adopted Garveys black star line as their flag and nickname?

Of course not you out number them by more than double, and if you take benefit for everything good then do so to with everything bad, that has been extremed tenfold by Black American culture....

The global influence is undeniable but you still at the bottom of the food chain like all the other blacks, who've other races have used as templates for the modern world, none more so than indigenous Africans......FACTS.
 

IllmaticDelta

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WEB DU BOIS isn't the father of Pan Africanism, unless you bestow both with the tile he was Garveys mulatto contemporary, viewed by what Africans? The same ones who adopted Garveys black star line as their flag and nickname?

Noone said yo can't look up to more than one pan africanist



Of course not you out number them by more than double, and if you take benefit for everything good then do so to with everything bad, that has been extremed tenfold by Black American culture....

well, you can't pick and choose



The global influence is undeniable but you still at the bottom of the food chain like all the other blacks, who've other races have used as templates for the modern world, none more so than indigenous Africans......FACTS.

We're not talking other races right now, we're talking Aframs and Jamaicans:beli:
 

K.O.N.Y

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This thread is a perfect example of the willie lynch syndrome.
This is why we as black people never get anywhere. Ego and Pride.
Why can't we give credit where it's due? Whats wrong with sharing the credit? Every major hip hop publication and credible media outlet agrees with the facts I posted, so in essence the same 3-4 posters opinion doesn't count in the grand scheme of things.

Whats wrong with admitting that Caribbs helped influence hip hop music? Why do you have a problem accepting this? Some nikkas are really in here stating that your birthplace, parents birthblace/history, and culture has NO influence on you as a person.

This all stems from the 1970's when when Jamaicans started coming to NY in by the thousands. African Americans use to look down on Jamaicans and (other Caribbs) because they were poor and had nothing. By the mid 1980s Jamaicans started to move up in society by hustling, getting jobs, buying houses, and moving up outta ghetto's like south bronx and moving to the nicer areas in Northern BX, Queens, etc. So in return, Many Jamaicans began to look down on AA"s because they were still in the same ghetto's.

Hip Hop was birthed in NY and created by AA/ West Indian/ and Puerto Rican influence. Thats facts, thats how it went down in history, and how it will forever remain in history.

@IllmaticDelta has been skipping the middle man and going straight to the horses mouth this entire thread
straight From herc, from baam from old heads during that era

With both written and verbal statements:dead:
 

IllmaticDelta

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DC Go-go music kinda deads the "we didn't have a polyrhythm" theory. Go-go is more rhythmic than calypso BY FAR. Whole beat depends on conga shuffles and "the lock/pocket".

DC Go-Go also influenced Miami Bass with the chants/call & response

Go-Go Bites: Country Cousins
Posted by Andrew Noz on March 2, 2010 at 2:05 pm
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Taking a different approach to this series, I wanted to look at the less obvious influence of go-go, rather than direct and blatant biting. Yesterday I ran an old interview with Miami bass legend and 2 Live Crew godfather Luther Campbell on my own site. At some point our conversation shifted to D.C. and its music:

[W]hen I was a rough kid my mom sent me to stay in DC, I stayed in Oxon Hill with my brother... Man, Rare Essence, Chuck Brown, that was my thing. I used to go to a lot of the go-go shows at The Armory and when they used to have it at the Cap Center I’d be there. That’s really where I got a lot of call and response from. I was a DJ and I did call and response, but I never [knew] how to apply it on a record. So when I did spend my time up there, I would go to these shows and I would see Chuck Brown up there and Rare Essence and I would see the battles. Because back then, they would be battling and shyt, they would be getting down, it’d be like battle of the bands. So I heard that and I kind of applied a lot of that into me as an artist. Keeping the party started, coming up with different call and responses. I learned a lot from go-go music.

This is not an uncommon sentiment. I've dedicated a large chunk of my life to phone conversations with old school Southern hip-hop artists and it's surprising how many of them, often tipped off by a 202 area code, start reminiscing about go-go music and whatever tenuous connections led them to it in the '80s. New Orleans bounce godfather DJ Jimi mentioned discovering the genre while living in P.G. County, Geto Boys DJ Ready Red (a N.J. transplant who had his biggest impact in Houston) used to cop go-go 12-inches through an uncle in Silver Spring. (Another short term Geto Boy, Big Mike, once reminisced on "jamming that Trouble Funk" at New Orleans block parties with "Southern Thang.")

Quiet as kept, those early D.C. jams went big throughout the South. While not technically being hip-hop, go-go was in a sense one of the earliest branches of "regional rap" to pop up. And in a lot of ways it provided the blueprint for what would the South would turn into an international industry in the years that followed—the heavy call-and-response factor that Luke mentions, the local specificity of it all, the aspect of black-owned labels. Echos of these trends could be heard throughout bounce, bass, and crunk music. And sure, similar things were happening in the early days of New York hip-hop as well, but that as that city began to move toward a more lyrical and cerebral focus, it was D.C.'s formula that helped keep the party going in the rest of the country. (And, in a bit of cyclical influence, the sound of current day southern rap can be heard in plenty of modern go-go.)

Go-Go Bites: Country Cousins
 

Lewis Black

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Tyson delivers in role of a lifetime
The man listed as his father on his birth certificate is Purcell Tyson, who was Afro-Jamaican.

More Ether.

You weirdo mike tyson is 100% black american, his real father was a pimp from north carolina, jimmy kirkpatrick. Go to wiki or read his book. Don't nobody give a fukk about lennox lewis lol and floyd has never ever mentioned no jamaica, and has always called himself african american.

I give respect to carribean people, but tryna claim people who have a grandfather is pathetic lol Michael jackson, mike jordan, muhamed ali, whitney houston, beyonce, jay-z, jimmy hendrix etc come on knock it off man.

Hip hop is african american too.
 
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