DJ Premier talks: Biggie vs. Jeru the Damaja beef

Art Barr

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You compared him to elite rappers.

To me Jeru is about Guru level as far as rapping. He is well above average. He's a very good rapper, just below elite.


jeru was a lo-fi jazz obscure reference sonic based era emcee.
who had a firm grasp on tone, style and content.
when, he debuted...
big in that same era, was loud and offkey.
plus, had to be told by puff to develop the skill of vocal tonality.
so, he could translate to a jiggy b*stardized loop production form of rap.
that should have never actually matriculated and took us back to the blasphemous dj Hollywood old school way of thought.

so, I really can not say big was better.


art barr
 

Art Barr

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Lets try an experiment...Hypothetically, what if Jeru were a member of the WU? Where would you rank him? Ahead of Meth? Rae? Ghost? Gza? Fukk no...he would settle right in the middle. The average.

More to that point, who was Jeru fukkin with during that era. The mid to late 90s was flooded with skilled MC's, so in that era he was right around average. Forget the cream of the crop --- was Jeru better than cats like Keith Murray, Redman, Lauryn, De la, AZ.....I could go on and on...Perhaps if he debuted now it would be a different story.

You can make the argument that I might be underrating him to a degree, but he was certainly closer to average than great --- and thats just ranking him strictly by his peak, and not by the totality of his career. He regressed as an MC pretty quickly, and didnt improve.

The cat that for all intents and purposes replaced him in the Ganstarr Foundation, Afu Ra, to me was superior. I dont remember Jeru having a lyrical display like this:




whirlwind through cities was not dope...
I own that twelve, breh.
afu ra was only nice around jeru, on the first joint.

art barr
 

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You compared him to elite rappers.

To me Jeru is about Guru level as far as rapping. He is well above average. He's a very good rapper, just below elite.

Meth and GZA certainly, but Ghost and Rae werent "elite" back in the mid 90s, where you could realistically put them in the category of a Big, Nas, Prodigy, 'Face, etc...the fact that you dont even consider Jeru to be in Ghost or Rae's league at that time is telling, and the exact point im trying to make. I listed a bunch of other MC's, and I would certainly put them at or above the level of a ghost and rae, and maybe even a meth or GZA. Go ahead and catalogue the list of MC's around the time making noise. You will notice that you will keep pushing Jeru further and further down the list.
 

Art Barr

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jeru's style was blunted as fukk. he and buckshot brought that blunted cipher style to the forefront back then but jeru was hands down the best at that...far from average

he lost that on his second album, maybe he switched strains or something

His second album is highly rated.
Only skills hiccup is on:

Black cowboys
Not your average nikka.

Where you can tell,...
That record is a cut and paste job lyrically.
Where he did not write to the beat.
Then, just put rhymes based on content over the production on some stubborn shyt.
If we pay attention to that,...
Then, why are we ignoring big being offkey for the entire rtd project.
Other than juicy, big poppa and unbelievable.


Art Barr
 
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Why-Fi

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His efond albu. Is hihly rated.
Only skills hiccup is on:

Black cowboys
Not your average nikka.

Where you can tell,...
That record is a cut and paste job lyrically.
Where he did not wrote to the beat, and just put rhymes based on content over the production on some stubborn shyt.
If we pay attention to that,...
Then, why are we ignoring big being offkey for the entire rtd project.
Other than juicy, big poppa and unbelievable.


Art Barr
i didn't say it was wack just completely different from the first, and i think you're right he wasn't writing tho the beats. plus i like those 2 joints...

respectfully disagree about RTD too. big had way too many brilliant moments on that project. way more than a little bit and way more than the drawbacks

suicidal thought, the what, me and my bytch...my fav hip hop love joint next to bonita applebum...
 

Art Barr

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Meth and GZA certainly, but Ghost and Rae werent "elite" back in the mid 90s, where you could realistically put them in the category of a Big, Nas, Prodigy, 'Face, etc...the fact that you dont even consider Jeru to be in Ghost or Rae's league at that time is telling, and the exact point im trying to make. I listed a bunch of other MC's, and I would certainly put them at or above the level of a ghost and rae, and maybe even a meth or GZA. Go ahead and catalogue the list of MC's around the time making noise. You will notice that you will keep pushing Jeru further and further down the list.


Jeru was not an artist welled in the technical skill revolution.
the mass technical skill revolution started with nas.
As technical marvels like finesse and rakim were either hated.
or so far from the spectrum of understanding as a consistent science.
That an emcee was not rated on being a technical marvel, in the era, jeru originally debuted in.
Jeru was a styles era technical emcee.
Who dropped in the little wrinkle of time.
As the styles based era heavy emcees like fu-schnick, treach to tung twista were being dissed and being ushered out.
Which is why come clean, resonated to the hall of fame levels.
Plus, his perfect classic was delayed and released out of its production and technical era.
To the point dirty rotten, the original was delayed severely.
As well as the perfect classic sun rises in the east.
As nas, was already assimilating the entire eastcoast for six months damn near before jeru dropped.

I know you were not around then.
Or you would not have said what you you said.
As, you are judging jeru by a technical standard.
That was not the rule when he recorded and was slated for original release.

Art Barr
 
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Art Barr

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Lemme blow your minds a little bit. Would yall be mad if I said that Big got most of his style from King-Tee? :mjpls:


They don't wanna hear you, though.
On top of most of the chronic 2oo1, being made direction wise and based on king tee's shelved aftermath classic In 97, too.

That is another discussion.

Big is based on west coast lift's all day.
Big is what if heavy d, had west coast gangsta based content with an east coast touch.

Vocally, I don't see big as better than heav or Chubb.
Yet, that is an old discussion from the :hamster:.

Better reserved for its own revisited idea based thread.


Art Barr


Art Barr
 

Why-Fi

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reading back i just grasped what you said about bigs voice being wrong...which is type true. i couldn't stand his voice for a long time before i heard RTD.
 

Art Barr

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i didn't say it was wack just completely different from the first, and i think you're right he wasn't writing tho the beats. plus i like those 2 joints...

respectfully disagree about RTD too. big had way too many brilliant moments on that project. way more than a little bit and way more than the drawbacks

suicidal thought, the what, me and my bytch...my fav hip hop love joint next to bonita applebum...


Vocally big is offkey and yells for the whole project other than three records.
Which were all found on singles.
His best performances on reel.
Were recorded at the end of the album recording cycle.
or b-sides like one more chance remix and who shot ya.
Whereas jeru's first album was shelved, and he had no skills hiccup and was not offkey for his whole project on sun rises in the east.


Art Barr
 
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Why-Fi

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Vocally big is offkey and yells for the whole project other than three records.
Which were all found on singles.
His best performances on reel.
Were recorded at the end of the album recording cycle.
or b-sides like one more chance remix and who shot ya.
Whereas jeru's first album was shelved, and he had no skills hiccup and was not offkey for his whole protect on sun rises in the east.


Art Barr
i get it...big's voice was grating for sure. i hate that super cat joint because of that screaming shyt he and puff were doing. the feature with heavy d, party n bullshyt. it took me a long time to like big because of his voice...
 

Art Barr

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i get it...big's voice was grating for sure. i hate that super cat joint because of that screaming shyt he and puff were doing. the feature with heavy d, party n bullshyt. it took me a long time to like big because of his voice...


People who praise big.
bought into arista distribution based pr from badby because of his death.
They don't accurately rate big on his whole body of work.
Big is rated on one mo chance the remix.
Which came out two and a half years after his debut on Mary's 411 remix album and his dreams demo leak.

Which is not indicative of his full body of work.
I been listening to big since the dreams demo leaked.

Which was a favorite of mine, cause I would play it right after ultra's porno star and Tim dogg's secret fantasy, in that era.


Art Barr


Oh and btw,...dope ass username!
 
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