Dinesh D'Souza on Black failure

[newarkhiphop]

The average immigrant doesn't succeed. It's not a coincidence that South Asians are some of the wealthiest immigrants in this country (Hindus are the wealthiest religious group, per capita)- they already have educations, they speak English before they get here, have strong family support, etc.

@ your claim that the average immigrant has forged or no paperwork. Sorry, but there's no way I'm buying that. You'll have to post some stats for this stuff.

Ill agree with that the average one doesn't succeed but am still sticking by the fact that a good % of them do and by the 2nd or 3rd gen the process of succeeding for an immigrant from that family has become much easier.

yea my bad on the second statement i should have been more specific , the average Mexican/S. American/ Carriebean immigrants has no or forged papers, this is backed up by the fact of all the hell the immigration debate has brought up in this country over the last couple of years


Still something that is not spoke of and I've brought it up before is that a large # of Asian and African immigrants also come here with forged papers.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

So are you admitting the African Immigrant is somehow superior to the black American that's why he made it to the shores of America?

What opportunities does a black immigrant from Ghana have that an AA don't have?

When my father came to the US he had $1K in his pocket and a suitcase.
He borrowed 1K from his friends in Ghana for his plane ticket.


He is now a retired college tutor and a graphic designer please enlighten me on how the African immigrant and the black American don't have a level playing field.

Not superior, just coming from a better place

Your fathers story is great and I'm sure he worked hard. But I'm not buying the "all I had was 1k and the clothes on my back story" I'm sure it sounded good to you as a kid but its just not realistic.

Beyond that go into a poor neighborhood and find someone that has $1k laying around for a plane ticket, or find someone that could loan you $1k in order to get your life together. They just don't have it these people are poor, they don't have $2 for a loaf of bread let alone $1k to spend on bettering their lives. Also these people are going to schools that don't have books or enough teachers and they are born to parents who are uneducated. Your father and immigrants like him come here with better educations and support systems than black Americans are ever offered. It's an apple to oranges comparison and it adds no extra insight to the plight of either group.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Ill agree with that the average one doesn't succeed but am still sticking by the fact that a good % of them do and by the 2nd or 3rd gen the process of succeeding for an immigrant from that family has become much easier.

yea my bad on the second statement i should have been more specific , the average Mexican/S. American/ Carriebean immigrants has no or forged papers, this is backed up by the fact of all the hell the immigration debate has brought up in this country over the last couple of years


Still something that is not spoke of and I've brought it up before is that a large # of Asian and African immigrants also come here with forged papers.

A good % of black people succeed as well, so what's your point?

 

[newarkhiphop]

A good % of black people succeed as well, so what's your point?

that a larger # of immigrants with more disadvantages than AA come here and succeed quicker

 

[theworldismine13]

Sure it's good to look at other stories of success to look for ideas on how to create success for yourself. But that's different from making a comparison and saying "just cause this person was able to do it, this other totaly unrelated person should be able to do the same"

When this comparison is made it's not made to help black people or to give them ideas on what to do. The comparison is made and used as proof that black people just don't want to succeed or they are somehow lesser than other cultures. This notion is totaly incorect, because we see all around the world that poor people exhibit the same type of behavior. It has nothing to do with "black culture" or a "breakdown in family structure" it's poverty. People in poverty are drawn to self destructive behavior, it's a viscous cycle and it holds true all around the world, not just in America.

how would people around the world being poor prove that culture has nothing to do with it, maybe the poor people around the world also have issues with their culture

and there have been many people and nations that have been poor and then gotten wealthier, what do you attribute to the rise in wealth in other countries and this country for that matter

 

[MeachTheMonster]

that a larger # of immigrants with more disadvantages than AA come here and succeed quicker

That is incorrect and you have absolutely nothing to back up you're claim.

 

[Chris.B]

Not superior, just coming from a better place

Your fathers story is great and I'm sure he worked hard. But I'm not buying the "all I had was 1k and the clothes on my back story" I'm sure it sounded good to you as a kid but its just not realistic.

Beyond that go into a poor neighborhood and find someone that has $1k laying around for a plane ticket, or find someone that could loan you $1k in order to get your life together. They just don't have it these people are poor, they don't have $2 for a loaf of bread let alone $1k to spend on bettering their lives. Also these people are going to schools that don't have books or enough teachers and they are born to parents who are uneducated. Your father and immigrants like him come here with better educations and support systems than black Americans are ever offered. It's an apple to oranges comparison and it adds no extra insight to the plight of either group.

The economy sucks now so his story may not be possible in 2013 but in the 80's, you could get a job sleeping.

He used that 1K for his first month rent/upkeep..It was it was $300 a month back then and that was it got a job and went to college and stayed out of trouble. One issue you are ignoring....most black men can't get a decent job because of their records....I will address this later. Most employers will never hire someone with a rap sheet.

And you are wrong my father was not college educated when he came here.
He came to America with an equivalent of a high school education and took advantage of laws which are still on the books for minorities.

You can sit there and pretend there are no people in the black community without drive or ambition to succeed.

Some people belive just because of being born American they deserve a better life....well partner I'm here to spread you the news...YOU DON'T.

 

[newarkhiphop]

That is incorrect and you have absolutely nothing to back up you're claim.

the video in the OP talks about it, there reports about it all the time about the graduation rates of immigrant children and how they score higher than there black and white counterparts on all types of standardized test and lastly even in this thread posters who are children of immigrants themselves have spoke of there families and there own success

 

[MeachTheMonster]

how would people around the world being poor prove that culture has nothing to do with it, maybe the poor people around the world also have issues with their culture

Because in saying "we need to change the culture" you are adressing a symptom not the cause of the disease. The culture is a result of poverty, in order to change the culture you have to change the poverty.

and there have been many people and nations that have been poor and then gotten wealthier, what do you attribute to the rise in wealth in other countries and this country for that matter

People are able to fight through oppression and poverty, and societies grow. But the fact holds true all around the world that most people die in the same social-economical class they were born in. Some people improve their standing but most people don't. People wanna come down on black people as if we haven't made improvement to ourselves or our standing in society, but I say find any other people that went from slave to the president in 100 years. Our history in America proves that black culture is all about advancement, improvement, and fighting hard. The culture that you want to attribute to black people is not "black" culture it's "poor" culture.

 

[theworldismine13]

You can't talk about culture, without talking about what shaped that culture. You can't change a culture by just saying "hey we need to change our culture" the only way to change a culture is to change what shapes that culture. In the case of black people in America decades of poverty and oppression has shaped the culture, so the only way to fix that culture is to fix the poverty and oppression that created it.

if black people wait for what shaped our culture to disappear we will be waiting for a very long time, that is why i reject your thinking, i think its a ridiculous notion

and the way to change a culture is actually to say "hey we need to change our culture" there is no other way to do that

 

[newarkhiphop]

So are you admitting the African Immigrant is somehow superior to the black American that's why he made it to the shores of America?

What opportunities does a black immigrant from Ghana have that an AA don't have?

When my father came to the US he had $1K in his pocket and a suitcase.
He borrowed 1K from his friends in Ghana for his plane ticket.


He is now a retired college tutor and a graphic designer please enlighten me on how the African immigrant and the black American don't have a level playing field.

yea i used to work with a bunch of dudes from ghana when i used to work at the airport , they are some of the hardest working dudes i know. Couple them where working two full time jobs and a part time job at the same time to support there family here and send money back home.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

the video in the OP talks about it, there reports about it all the time about the graduation rates of immigrant children and how they score higher than there black and white counterparts on all types of standardized test and lastly even in this thread posters who are children of immigrants themselves have spoke of there families and there own success

You said these are the poor uneducated disadvantaged people that come here and find this success. I understand that immigrants come here and outperform some people, but again those are the people who come from better backgrounds than the people they are coming here to outperform.

 

[theworldismine13]

Because in saying "we need to change the culture" you are adressing a symptom not the cause of the disease. The culture is a result of poverty, in order to change the culture you have to change the poverty.

but you said that people around the world behaving in bad ways is evidence that poverty is the cause, i just dont get that logic, how do you rule out that these poor people dont also have a bad culture that needs to be fixed and its the culture that is causing their poverty?

People are able to fight through oppression and poverty, and societies grow. But the fact holds true all around the world that most people die in the same social-economical class they were born in. Some people improve their standing but most people don't. People wanna come down on black people as if we haven't made improvement to ourselves or our standing in society, but I say find any other people that went from slave to the president in 100 years. Our history in America proves that black culture is all about advancement, improvement, and fighting hard. The culture that you want to attribute to black people is not "black" culture it's "poor" culture.

i agree that there is a "poor culture" and that it goes way beyond black people, i talk about black culture because that is the discussion at hand

but the fact that other people have a "poor culture" doesn't mean take black people off the hook, i think the history of black people shows that focusing on education is the key and that once we lose that everything else breaks down

 

[MeachTheMonster]

if black people wait for what shaped our culture to disappear we will be waiting for a very long time, that is why i reject your thinking, i think its a ridiculous notion

and the way to change a culture is actually to say "hey we need to change our culture" there is no other way to do that

I don't say we should wait for it to disappear. I said we need to address the things that shaped the culture. For example you can tell a dude to stop selling drugs all day, you can tell him the dangers, and alternatives he could use to make money. But everytime his stomach growls hes gonna go out and sell some more drugs. If you give that dude a chance and keep him fed while showing him the way to change, he can actualy change his life or his "culture"

Same with education. You can't just tell a kid that education is key, when the environment around them including their own school show them that getting an education is a waste of time.

We need to start at the root of the problem which is poverty and lack of economic opportunity.

 

[newarkhiphop]

You said these are the poor uneducated disadvantaged people that come here and find this success. I understand that immigrants come here and outperform some people, but again those are the people who come from better backgrounds than the people they are coming here to outperform.

there not breh , Ive mentioned it before here i work in education and ive seen it time and time again where the children of African immigrants outperform there AA and Hispanic counterparts by a large margin. Shoot i have a couple of kids i work with now from Nigeria ,mother just came here a year ago, comes from nothing, is here alone , barely speaks English, they live in the hood , mom works two full time factory jobs and these kids who i know personally score higher in ALL of there class than AA and Hispanics who's have parents who were born here and were born and raised here and by score higher i mean there both straight A kids


Shoot you want to talk about sad these two kids could name more presidents and states than any other full English speaking born and raised here AA kid could

and i can repeat tons of personal examples of this of Asian, Indian and some Latin kids