Dinesh D'Souza on Black failure

[MeachTheMonster]

but you said that people around the world behaving in bad ways is evidence that poverty is the cause, i just dont get that logic, how do you rule out that these poor people dont also have a bad culture that needs to be fixed and its the culture that is causing their poverty?

Because the same culture can be found all around the world related to poverty. If it was "black" culture it would only be found in black people.

i agree that there is a "poor culture" and that it goes way beyond black people, i talk about black culture because that is the discussion at hand

but the fact that other people have a "poor culture" doesn't mean take black people off the hook, i think the history of black people shows that focusing on education is the key and that once we lose that everything else breaks down

I'm not taking anybody "off the hook". I'm saying its a very hard sell to tell people to focus on education when they don't have food to eat, and their schools don't have books or teachers.

 

[theworldismine13]

I don't say we should wait for it to disappear. I said we need to address the things that shaped the culture. For example you can tell a dude to stop selling drugs all day, you can tell him the dangers, and alternatives he could use to make money. But everytime his stomach growls hes gonna go out and sell some more drugs. If you give that dude a chance and keep him fed while showing him the way to change, he can actualy change his life or his "culture"

Same with education. You can't just tell a kid that education is key, when the environment around them including their own school show them that getting an education is a waste of time.

We need to start at the root of the problem which is poverty and lack of economic opportunity.

but that is what i am saying, i dont think we can wait for those structures to be addressed

the issue that im getting at is that the "everything around them" that says education is a waste comes from black people ie black culture, and cultural change starts at home, not at school or on the street and IMO that is something that we as black people have control over

im all for addressing structural issues and improving education but i just dont think those are fundamental, and i dont think i want to wait until the general public decides to address those issues

imo the fundamental factor is education and attitude toward education, i disagree that poverty causes bad education (im not saying it helps, it obviously doesnt) but fundamentally i think bad education cultures causes poverty

 

[MeachTheMonster]

there not breh , Ive mentioned it before here i work in education and ive seen it time and time again where the children of African immigrants outperform there AA and Hispanic counterparts by a large margin. Shoot i have a couple of kids i work with now from Nigeria ,mother just came here a year ago, comes from nothing, is here alone , barely speaks English, they live in the hood , mom works two full time factory jobs and these kids who i know personally score higher in ALL of there class than AA and Hispanics who's have parents who were born here and were born and raised here and by score higher i mean there both straight A kids


Shoot you want to talk about sad these two kids could name more presidents and states than any other full English speaking born and raised here AA kid could

and i can repeat tons of personal examples of this of Asian, Indian and some Latin kids

What your not understanding is that coming from a poor American neighborhood, is coming from a way worse place educationally and economically. Sure when she got here she was considered poor, but just the fact that she was able to make it here shows that she was already ahead of black Americans born in poor neighborhoods. Flip it around, the average poor black American couldn't make it to Nigeria if he wanted to.

As for the kids outperforming their American counterparts, again that's because they are being educated beter in their home countries or at home by their educated parents. American kids don't know who the presidents are or what the states are because nobody teaches them, and they don't even have books to take home if they wanted to learn on their own. I'm in the process of adopting my 6 year old cousin. She goes to public school everyday, yet she can't count to 10 she barely knows he colors, and her vocabulary is fukked. I never get any notes from school saying what she needs to learn, or what they worked on today. They never tried to hold her back to teach her the stuff he should have known years ago, they would just keep passing her and let her grow up illiterate, then point to her as a statistic or proof of the failures of the black community. The Nigerian people you speak of dont come from a situation like this, their schools teach them and test them and make sure they are leaning, so when they get here they are much better off than the kids who are stuck in fukked up situations.

 

[theworldismine13]

Because the same culture can be found all around the world related to poverty. If it was "black" culture it would only be found in black people.

yeah that still wouldnt rule out a bad culture as the cause for poverty tho, they can also have a bad culture its just not black culture specifically

I'm not taking anybody "off the hook". I'm saying its a very hard sell to tell people to focus on education when they don't have food to eat, and their schools don't have books or teachers.

im not trying to make a sale, im just stating facts that education is tied to wealth and my opinion that the low education level amongst blacks is tied to culture, so IMO the way to address wealth is not through structural changes its through addressing culture (im not against making structural changes, i just dont think they are fundamental) in fact the data shows that blacks that are middle class and do have enough to eat and go to the same schools as whites still under perform, so there is more that just structural changes that need to be made, im suggesting that those other changes or more important than structural changes

 

[MeachTheMonster]

yeah that still wouldnt rule out a bad culture as the cause for poverty tho, they can also have a bad culture its just not black culture specifically




im not trying to make a sale, im just stating facts that education is tied to wealth and my opinion that the low education level amongst blacks is tied to culture, so IMO the way to address wealth is not through structural changes its through addressing culture (im not against making structural changes, i just dont think they are fundamental) in fact the data shows that blacks that are middle class and do have enough to eat and go to the same schools as white still under perform, so there is more that just structural changes that

I'm into actualy helping and making changes. You can state facts and point fingers all day, but that changes absolutely nothing. If the black community is to improve its gonna take people like you and I that are better off and educated to go into the communities and help them make the changes. You can't make a person change their culture without addressing what shapes the culture, it's impossible. We can't stress the importance of education when the kids still don't have books or quality teachers. We can't explain the pitfalls of drug dealing when the only people they see eating are drug dealers.

 

[newarkhiphop]

What your not understanding is that coming from a poor American neighborhood, is coming from a way worse place educationally and economically. Sure when she got here she was considered poor, but just the fact that she was able to make it here shows that she was already ahead of black Americans born in poor neighborhoods. Flip it around, the average poor black American couldn't make it to Nigeria if he wanted to.

As for the kids outperforming their American counterparts, again that's because they are being educated beter in their home countries or at home by their educated parents. American kids don't know who the presidents are or what the states are because nobody teaches them, and they don't even have books to take home if they wanted to learn on their own. I'm in the process of adopting my 6 year old cousin. She goes to public school everyday, yet she can't count to 10 she barely knows he colors, and her vocabulary is fukked. I never get any notes from school saying what she needs to learn, or what they worked on today. They never tried to hold her back to teach her the stuff he should have known years ago, they would just keep passing her and let her grow up illiterate, then point to her as a statistic or proof of the failures of the black community. The Nigerian people you speak of dont come from a situation like this, their schools teach them and test them and make sure they are leaning, so when they get here they are much better off than the kids who are stuck in fukked up situations.

the average low income american has no need to go to Nigeria, the average low income Nigerian has all the reason in the world to come here, the average poor Nigerian lives on $2 a day ( 92% of the pop.) that type of poverty is unseen in america. In these countries there is no welfare system , no unemployment system, no SSI, TANIF etc etc. Your poor in these places and you either leave or you die.


Sorry to hear that about your cousin, that is very typical and i see that on a daily basis. There are many factors to why that happens but that a conversation for another day.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

but that is what i am saying, i dont think we can wait for those structures to be addressed

It's not "waiting for them to be addressed" it's addressing the problems ourselves.

the issue that im getting at is that the "everything around them" that says education is a waste comes from black people ie black culture, and cultural change starts at home, not at school or on the street and IMO that is something that we as black people have control over

I disagree, it's not black people around them that say education is a waste, it's society as a whole. They don't get to see success stories of people who were born poor and made it rich through education. The only succesful black people society shows them are rappers, actors, and athletes. Society has already decided that their educations aren't important, American society doesn't think it's important that these kids get books and quality teachers. American society shows them that they are forgotten scum from the moment they are born. Just saying " change your culture" does absolutely nothing for these people.

im all for addressing structural issues and improving education but i just dont think those are fundamental, and i dont think i want to wait until the general public decides to address those issues

imo the fundamental factor is education and attitude toward education, i disagree that poverty causes bad education (im not saying it helps, it obviously doesnt) but fundamentally i think bad education cultures causes poverty

I agree, I just don't think telling people to change your culture will help anything when all the things that shape the culture are still there. Even if we get a family to change their attitude torward education, the parents are already uneducated so they can't help. The teachers already don't give a fukk, so they won't help. The schools are already fukked, so that won't help. The kids still have no books. They still have no examples of people finding success through education. So what did we actualy change?

 

[MeachTheMonster]

the average low income american has no need to go to Nigeria, the average low income Nigerian has all the reason in the world to come here, the average poor Nigerian lives on $2 a day ( 92% of the pop.) that type of poverty is unseen in america. In these countries there is no welfare system , no unemployment system, no SSI, TANIF etc etc. Your poor in these places and you either leave or you die.


Sorry to hear that about your cousin, that is very typical and i see that on a daily basis. There are many factors to why that happens but that a conversation for another day.

$2 a day here is not equivelant to $2 a day in Nigeria. People get goverment help here because goverment stands in the way of a lot of things. Without intrusive laws and regulations people could grow and sell their own food, people could hunt, or find jobs around their communty to do. There are plenty of starving kids in America. Sure the country looks good on paper, but in some of our neighborhoods the poverty is about as bad as you can find anywhere.

 

[theworldismine13]

I'm into actualy helping and making changes. You can state facts and point fingers all day, but that changes absolutely nothing. If the black community is to improve its gonna take people like you and I that are better off and educated to go into the communities and help them make the changes. You can't make a person change their culture without addressing what shapes the culture, it's impossible. We can't stress the importance of education when the kids still don't have books or quality teachers. We can't explain the pitfalls of drug dealing when the only people they see eating are drug dealers.

i didnt say i dont go into communities to help, i actually do tutoring, and from what i see the lack of emphasis in education comes from the parent and other black people, imo black people are shaping black people's culture, when somebody says education is a waste im 90 percent sure they got that notion from another black person

so my point i try to get accross you can believe in what people tell you or you can believe in reality and in facts and figures

you mentioned your cousin cant count to 10, why is that? children learn to to count from their parents, children get their vocabulary from their parents, so fundamentally your cousin's education or lack thereof is because of the black people in her life

as ive made it clear im 1000 for structural changes to the public school system but fundamentally black people are responsible for the education of black children

 

[theworldismine13]

$2 a day here is not equivelant to $2 a day in Nigeria. People get goverment help here because goverment stands in the way of a lot of things. Without intrusive laws and regulations people could grow and sell their own food, people could hunt, or find jobs around their communty to do. There are plenty of starving kids in America. Sure the country looks good on paper, but in some of our neighborhoods the poverty is about as bad as you can find anywhere.

sorry breh, but when they say $2 per day that includes the exchange rate, so it is just like you read, people in nigeria live on dollars a day, its that bad

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

this bullshyt just keeps getting worse and worse

 

[newarkhiphop]

$2 a day here is not equivelant to $2 a day in Nigeria. People get goverment help here because goverment stands in the way of a lot of things. Without intrusive laws and regulations people could grow and sell their own food, people could hunt, or find jobs around their communty to do. There are plenty of starving kids in America. Sure the country looks good on paper, but in some of our neighborhoods the poverty is about as bad as you can find anywhere.

yea i know , that's why i didn't say they make $2 Nigerien dollars, look at the GNI which is adjusted and converted to the U.S dollar , yearly income for the average Nigerian is $1,280 in 2011, that's a year not per month

Nigeria | Data


and No poverty in america is no where near as bad as poverty anywhere else in the world, this is census date to back it up

What is Poverty in the United States: Air Conditioning, Cable TV and an Xbox

Abstract: For decades, the U.S. Census Bureau has reported that over 30 million Americans were living in “poverty,” but the bureau’s definition of poverty differs widely from that held by most Americans. In fact, other government surveys show that most of the persons whom the government defines as “in poverty” are not poor in any ordinary sense of the term. The overwhelming majority of the poor have air conditioning, cable TV, and a host of other modern amenities. They are well housed, have an adequate and reasonably steady supply of food, and have met their other basic needs, including medical care. Some poor Americans do experience significant hardships, including temporary food shortages or inadequate housing, but these individuals are a minority within the overall poverty population. Poverty remains an issue of serious social concern, but accurate information about that problem is essential in crafting wise public policy. Exaggeration and misinformation about poverty obscure the nature, extent, and causes of real material deprivation, thereby hampering the development of well-targeted, effective programs to reduce the problem.
Each year for the past two decades, the U.S. Census Bureau has reported that over 30 million Americans were living in “poverty.” In recent years, the Census has reported that one in seven Americans are poor. But what does it mean to be “poor” in America? How poor are America’s poor?
For most Americans, the word “poverty” suggests destitution: an inability to provide a family with nutritious food, clothing, and reasonable shelter. For example, the Poverty Pulse poll taken by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development asked the general public: “How would you describe being poor in the U.S.?” The overwhelming majority of responses focused on homelessness, hunger or not being able to eat properly, and not being able to meet basic needs.[1] That perception is bolstered by news stories about poverty that routinely feature homelessness and hunger.
Yet if poverty means lacking nutritious food, adequate warm housing, and clothing for a family, relatively few of the more than 30 million people identified as being “in poverty” by the Census Bureau could be characterized as poor.[2] While material hardship definitely exists in the United States, it is restricted in scope and severity. The average poor person, as defined by the government, has a living standard far higher than the public imagines.

 

[Ms~Opinionated]

I think it all comes down to drive to succeed, not saying AA's don't want to succeed but I feel a sense of "acceptance of mediocrity" in the black community. Some people are content with staying on welfare with no drive to succeed. As long as they are getting a place to stay and food to eat, the motivational drive to go beyond that is not enough.

Most immigrant families refuse to go on government assistance and get a job right away once they touch the shores of America....the worth ethic gene is there....

ALSO

Most immigrant families are married and STAY married. That's not the case with American blacks.

A single mother can only do her best no way in hell her paycheck can support a family and most importantly I think black women in American are on some "Mrs independent bullsh!t" which goes contrary to the way a woman is supposed behave, act and conduct herself. I blame BLACK women for majority of the ILLS in the black community.

Single motherhood is admired like is some sort of an accomplishment. In most immigrant communities a single mother can't even show her face.

Black women will procreate and fukk any loser and later complain about how this n!gga aint sh!t because "he don't take care of his kids"

Well b!tch doesn't it take 2 to tango?

Even if you have a married black family with man and woman making 40K each, that's 80K in gross income. That right there lifts that family and a kid out of poverty.....

I think this marriage thing has a lot to do with it.

"During Reconstruction and up until the 1940s, 75% to 85% of black children lived in two-parent families. Today, more than 70% of black children are born to single women." - Quote from Article

Even though racial discrimination is less of a problem today, we are collectively sliding downhill.

I don't think you can have a great society without marriage and commitment.

"The slowest growing animal of them all, the human, which takes longest to reach maturity and requires two years to develop sufficient teeth with which to chew solid foods, should have the longest nursing period of them all." - Quote from Book

Since human babies take a long time to reach maturity compared to other animals, monogamous relationships are more important to the survival of the child/race/species for humans.

This is even more important for people in colder climates than it is for those who live in warm climates. It was important for men to bring food home, since the woman couldn't raise a child and hunt. Survival is probably one of the reasons penguins are monogamous.

In places where food grows easily(warmer climates) and is found easily by foraging, the importance of the father wouldn't be as critical and he could probably afford to have more than one wife.

I once read that it was the norm for men in Africa to have more than one wife. So, I don't think black men are culturally adapted to long term monogamous marriages. I think monogamy was more important for white people in the past, it was required for the survival of the race.

Today I believe the survival of our race depends on monogamous marriages.

White people are starting to see for themselves the effect single parent households have on children with the national divorce rate at 50%. In 20 years they will be talking about how it contributed to their disintegration.

 

[theworldismine13]

I disagree, it's not black people around them that say education is a waste, it's society as a whole. They don't get to see success stories of people who were born poor and made it rich through education. The only succesful black people society shows them are rappers, actors, and athletes. Society has already decided that their educations aren't important, American society doesn't think it's important that these kids get books and quality teachers. American society shows them that they are forgotten scum from the moment they are born. Just saying " change your culture" does absolutely nothing for these people.

then if its american culture that is doing it, then black people have to seperate themselves from american culture

I agree, I just don't think telling people to change your culture will help anything when all the things that shape the culture are still there. Even if we get a family to change their attitude torward education, the parents are already uneducated so they can't help. The teachers already don't give a fukk, so they won't help. The schools are already fukked, so that won't help. The kids still have no books. They still have no examples of people finding success through education. So what did we actualy change?

i would strongly disagree that if a family changes their attitude toward education that it wouldnt make a difference, i would say that is the only difference that even matters, once a family or we change our culture to focus on education then that is 90 percent of what needs to be done, everything else is just little stuff

you are saying that bad education comes from poverty and you think that government can eliminate that poverty, its not that direct

ultimately the government cannot create jobs and create wealth, government can only create the environment (structures) to give people the opportunity to create wealth and create jobs

government can give you access to education, but those are the limits, ultimately its on the community take advantage of the opportunities and to create wealth the government cannot

i agree that parents are uneducated and that is why i said we need a new public school system, with a whole different structure, culture and perspective, the current public school system assumes that parents are educated and help kids with their homework and reads to them at night, we need a new education system that deals with parents that dont, cant or wont do things like that

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

Didn't even watch the video but I agree with the title.