Did Jesse Pinkman ruin Breaking Bad's replayability for you?

[Mr. Manhattan]

I disagree. You can't shift accountability to Walt because he influenced Jesse to expand. Like you said, Jesse said it was a bad idea but nonetheless did it. Walt didn't know anything about what was going on in the streets so his opinion shouldn't even matter.

Jesse is not a child...he's a grown man. There was no gun to his head when it came time to make that choice for expansion. When Walt tried to convince him he should have either:

A. Stood his ground and not expand since he actually knows what's best.
B. Take proper precautions and devise a sound plan for moving into other territories.

What did Jesse actually do? He sent one guy in new territory by himself with nothing but a burner. That's called bad decision making. You can argue about Walt's stake in this all day, but Jesse is the one that pushed the button. From my perspective, that doesn't absolve him of any guilt.

This fakkit didnt even attend his boys funeral

Let me finish this list....

Walt gives Jesse 7000 dollars for the RV which is revealed later on he spent that money at a strip club, disrespectful fukk

Attempts to gun down 2 of Gus's dealers high on meth, saved by Walt
Bad decision making almost as bad as sending your boy on the corner dolo

Cries half of season 4

Dosnt follow through with the ricin to use on Gus, betrays his partner in favor of Gus... Oh ya still pinkman fans ?

Cries some more

I wish HBO produced Breaking Bad Jesse wouldve been gone by season 1

 

[hex]

Yep. Walt got greedy too fast and didn't know nor wanted to play by the rules of the game. He continuously showed this level of arrogance and ignorance to that life all throughout the series. He was definitely smart, but he was HARDLY street smart, but was playing a game in the streets. Plenty of folks would not have gotten killed or even needed to be killed if not for Walt getting into the game.

Like I said earlier in the thread, Jesse would get busted one good time, probably from Emilio snitching, because that was set up in the first few episodes of season 1. And that would've been the end of Jesse's career as a drug dealer, he would've went to college or some shyt.

No meth lab in his basement = his parents don't kick him out = he doesn't meet Jane. She doesn't overdose, or if she does it's not on his head.

Jesse never tries to slang in rehab, he never meets Andrea. She's still alive. Tomas is still alive, so is Combo.

Krazy 8, Emilio, Tuco, Gonzo, No-Doze, and the Cousins are all alive. Peter Schuler, Dan Wachsberger, Drew Sharp, Victor, Chow, Chris, Tyrus, and Mike's 9 guys are all alive. Declan and his crew are all still alive.

The 167 people on Wayfarer 515 are still alive. The Mexican immigrants the Cousins killed sneaking into America are alive. So is the old woman they killed, and the Border patrol.

Gus, Gale, Lydia, Gomez, Hank and Mike are all still alive.

Walt is still alive.

I could go on but I'm sure you see my point. Total, close to 300 people died throughout the course of the show. That's not even counting the collateral damage, like Brock growing up with no father or mother, Holly growing up with no father, Kaylee never knowing what happened to Mike, etc.

That's why I when people claim the ending was too happy. It's like....do you realize how many people had to catch Ls for Walt to "win"?

Fred.

 

[hex]

I disagree. You can't shift accountability to Walt because he influenced Jesse to expand. Like you said, Jesse said it was a bad idea but nonetheless did it. Walt didn't know anything about what was going on in the streets so his opinion shouldn't even matter.

Jesse is not a child...he's a grown man. There was no gun to his head when it came time to make that choice for expansion. When Walt tried to convince him he should have either:

A. Stood his ground and not expand since he actually knows what's best.
B. Take proper precautions and devise a sound plan for moving into other territories.

What did Jesse actually do? He sent one guy in new territory by himself with nothing but a burner. That's called bad decision making. You can argue about Walt's stake in this all day, but Jesse is the one that pushed the button. From my perspective, that doesn't absolve him of any guilt.

This is all fine and well but it completely ignores the fact that Walt was the boss. Jesse did as he was told. "Well Jesse was a grown man" has nothing to do with anything in this type of scenario, and goes back to what I said earlier about Cavario H. In a criminal enterprise everyone looks to the boss for guidance. He's supposed to know best. Individual thinking is not encouraged. Jesse voiced his opinion, it was ultimately over ruled, so he moved forward with Walt's plan. The plan got Combo killed. It wasn't Jesse's plan, how is he accountable? Because he put one guy out there with one gun? He told Walt they didn't have the man power.

That's like saying, Mike's a grown man, he should've over ruled Gus's decision to beef with the cartel. He knew it could get all three of them killed and went along with it anyway. Why? Because that's what goons are supposed to do. There wasn't a scene with Mike talking about "you sure about this, let's figure something else out".

Fred.

 

[Lucky Millionaire]

Nope.

Jesse & Walt's relationship was one of the best aspects of the show IMO

that's my dumb wigger junkie and bitter prideful teacher

 

[ReggieFlare]

This is all fine and well but it completely ignores the fact that Walt was the boss. Jesse did as he was told. "Well Jesse was a grown man" has nothing to do with anything in this type of scenario, and goes back to what I said earlier about Cavario H. In a criminal enterprise everyone looks to the boss for guidance. He's supposed to know best. Individual thinking is not encouraged. Jesse voiced his opinion, it was ultimately over ruled, so he moved forward with Walt's plan. The plan got Combo killed. It wasn't Jesse's plan, how is he accountable? Because he put one guy out there with one gun? He told Walt they didn't have the man power.

That's like saying, Mike's a grown man, he should've over ruled Gus's decision to beef with the cartel. He knew it could get all three of them killed and went along with it anyway. Why? Because that's what goons are supposed to do. There wasn't a scene with Mike talking about "you sure about this, let's figure something else out".

Fred.

Nah...still not buying it. You can't compare Gus and Mike to Walt and Jesse. Gus was clearly the boss, and Mike was clearly a hired goon with a specific role. Walt and Jesse's relationship, especially at that point in the show, was basically a partnership.

If Mike ever decided to disobey Gus's orders, he would likely get murked and replaced. That's not what would have happened to Jesse if he didn't listen to Walt at that time. He had the freedom to make a choice and there was nothing Walt could have done about what he decided to do. Again, you're completely absolving Jesse from the guilt of making the decision.

 

[FTBS]

Like I said earlier in the thread, Jesse would get busted one good time, probably from Emilio snitching, because that was set up in the first few episodes of season 1. And that would've been the end of Jesse's career as a drug dealer, he would've went to college or some shyt.

No meth lab in his basement = his parents don't kick him out = he doesn't meet Jane. She doesn't overdose, or if she does it's not on his head.

Jesse never tries to slang in rehab, he never meets Andrea. She's still alive. Tomas is still alive, so is Combo.

Krazy 8, Emilio, Tuco, Gonzo, No-Doze, and the Cousins are all alive. Peter Schuler, Dan Wachsberger, Drew Sharp, Victor, Chow, Chris, Tyrus, and Mike's 9 guys are all alive. Declan and his crew are all still alive.

The 167 people on Wayfarer 515 are still alive. The Mexican immigrants the Cousins killed sneaking into America are alive. So is the old woman they killed, and the Border patrol.

Gus, Gale, Lydia, Gomez, Hank and Mike are all still alive.

Walt is still alive.

I could go on but I'm sure you see my point. Total, close to 300 people died throughout the course of the show. That's not even counting the collateral damage, like Brock growing up with no father or mother, Holly growing up with no father, Kaylee never knowing what happened to Mike, etc.

That's why I when people claim the ending was too happy. It's like....do you realize how many people had to catch Ls for Walt to "win"?

Fred.

Krazy 8 and old boy would've killed Jesse for being a snitch. Jessie was a junkie idiot. He got put out of his parents house for messing with drugs and that didn't stop him. He started using again after and overdose claimed the life of the woman he loved. I doubt one bust, if he had lived to get busted, would have set him straight. Many of the people you named are people invovled in the drug trade. They likely would have either killed or been killed themselves. Walt can't be held accountable for those deaths. Jane and the plane (don't even ask me how ) were all on Jessie. He pulled her back into drugs and her demise as well as the demise of those passengers was a result of that. Like I said before if he had just lived the square life he was built for none of this would have happened, including Walt getting into the game. Jessie was his in. Who else could/would have put him on? Jessie's "I'm in" "No I'm out" routine did more damage than Walt ever did. If he never gets into the game none of that stuff happens. If he gets in the game and follows the rules of the game none of that stuff happens. He wanted it both ways. Say what you will about Walt but he didn't try to play both sides of the fence and experience sporadic morality. He went all the way in. Not sure if he would have lived or how much longer he would have lived since the cancer did come back.

 

[Amestafuu (Emeritus)]

Not really cuz I don't replay shows like this for the most part. Only sitcoms get replay.

Jessie might be alive but he can't live with himself so no one won.

 

[hex]

Krazy 8 and old boy would've killed Jesse for being a snitch. Jessie was a junkie idiot. He got put out of his parents house for messing with drugs and that didn't stop him. He started using again after and overdose claimed the life of the woman he loved. I doubt one bust, if he had lived to get busted, would have set him straight. Many of the people you named are people invovled in the drug trade. They likely would have either killed or been killed themselves. Walt can't be held accountable for those deaths. Jane and the plane (don't even ask me how ) were all on Jessie. He pulled her back into drugs and her demise as well as the demise of those passengers was a result of that. Like I said before if he had just lived the square life he was built for none of this would have happened, including Walt getting into the game. Jessie was his in. Who else could/would have put him on? Jessie's "I'm in" "No I'm out" routine did more damage than Walt ever did. If he never gets into the game none of that stuff happens. If he gets in the game and follows the rules of the game none of that stuff happens. He wanted it both ways. Say what you will about Walt but he didn't try to play both sides of the fence and experience sporadic morality. He went all the way in. Not sure if he would have lived or how much longer he would have lived since the cancer did come back.

Jesse wasn't a snitch though. Emilio was....the "ol boy" you're referring to. Hank mentioned this a couple episodes later, which they hinted at in the first episode, because dude posted bail after a day or so, even after getting busted with all those drugs in a meth lab. There is no way in hell someone like Jesse, who obviously ain't cut out for that life, gets busted and doesn't bow out the game.

Besides even if you're right I don't see how a hypothetical situation where Jesse continues to sell, even after jail, is a more concrete example than how things actually played out. I mentioned people whose death was directly tied to Walt's decision. You notice I didn't mention the cartel, because even if Gale was cooking Gus would've beefed with them anyway, and Don Eladio, etc, would've died regardless.

Jesse would've never met Jane if he'd stopped selling drugs. He had a meth lab in his basement because of Walt. It was Walt's idea, he set it up. That's why he got kicked out of his house, and had to get an apartment, where he met Jane.

Lastly Walt would've lived longer, because he would've gotten cared for in a hospital, not a shed in the middle of nowhere.

Fred.

 

[FTBS]

Jesse wasn't a snitch though. Emilio was....the "ol boy" you're referring to. Hank mentioned this a couple episodes later, which they hinted at in the first episode, because dude posted bail after a day or so, even after getting busted with all those drugs in a meth lab. There is no way in hell someone like Jesse, who obviously ain't cut out for that life, gets busted and doesn't bow out the game.

Besides even if you're right I don't see how a hypothetical situation where Jesse continues to sell, even after jail, is a more concrete example than how things actually played out. I mentioned people whose death was directly tied to Walt's decision. You notice I didn't mention the cartel, because even if Gale was cooking Gus would've beefed with them anyway, and Don Eladio, etc, would've died regardless.

Jesse would've never met Jane if he'd stopped selling drugs. He had a meth lab in his basement because of Walt. It was Walt's idea, he set it up. That's why he got kicked out of his house, and had to get an apartment, where he met Jane.

Lastly Walt would've lived longer, because he would've gotten cared for in a hospital, not a shed in the middle of nowhere.

Fred.

I know he wasn't a snitch but it was set up by Krazy 8 to look like he was a snitch. Remember it was either implied or flat out said that Emilio thought Jessie was the one who snitched.

Walt didn't introduce Jessie to drugs or drug dealing though. His parents already didn't fukk with him. His involvement with Walt and his fukked up relationship with his parents were a result of his decision to get involved with drugs. The only reason Walt knew he was dealing was because he went on a ride along where his house got raided. It's not like he was just living this upstanding clean life and Walt just dragged him in the gutter. Just because he was selling drugs doensn't mean he had to use them. Just because he was using doesn't mean he had to get Jane to relapse and join him. Walt was fukked up for watching her die but I say Jesse was even more fukked up for pushing her off the wagon.

Walt may have lived longer but you never know with the stage of cancer that he was at. He definitely did his dirt and had his share of blood on his hands but Jesse wasn't just an innocent pawn. He did his share of stupid/fukked up shyt too and based on his drug use, hyper-emotional personality, and just piss poor decision making likely would have found another way to fukk himself over.

 

[Propaganda]

i dunno how you can watch this series and not think that walt had direct involvement in making jesse's life a complete shyt show, not that jesse's completely absolved from blame but come on...

dude had his niche, he was just a quiet, small-time, no drama dealer. within the first couple days of working with walt, he was an accomplice to a double murder of some gang members/dealers and had another tied up in his basement. and then it just gets worse and worse for him as the show goes on.

sure, jesse probably would've fukked up and got caught or maybe become a full fledged junkie at some point or something if stayed on his own but dude went through hell and back dealing with walt.

 

[FTBS]

i dunno how you can watch this series and not think that walt had direct involvement in making jesse's life a complete shyt show, not that jesse's completely absolved from blame but come on...

dude had his niche, he was just a quiet, small-time, no drama dealer. within the first couple days of working with walt, he was an accomplice to a double murder of some gang members/dealers and had another tied up in his basement. and then it just gets worse and worse for him as the show goes on.

sure, jesse probably would've fukked up and got caught or maybe become a full fledged junkie at some point or something if stayed on his own but dude went through hell and back dealing with walt.

Quiet, small-time, no drama? He got raided by the DEA in episode one. But yeah things definitely got much bigger when he was dealing with Walt, no doubt. However everything goes back to his choice to get involved in the game in the first place. He had choices. He wasn't some kid with nothing or no one that figured he had nothing to lose. He had an option to be square and chose the street life. Just like Walt. Difference is Walt was able to adjust and roll with it. Jesse wasn't. That's not Walt's fault or his problem.

These cats were selling drugs not insurance. Jesse either knew the rules of the game or he should have. They were in a ruthless world dealing with ruthless people. You can't exactly be a boy scout and survive in that world. I am not absolving Walt from guilt for the things that he was responsible for (tearing his family apart, poisoning that kid) I just don't think you can include ruining Jesse's life among those things. Jesse has to wear that. Jesse put himself in a fukked up position from jump and made bad decision after bad decision.

 

[Absolut da poet ®]

being a dirtbag low level meth cook >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> losing everyone important in your life, being beat down for 2 years straight physically and mentally and being a neo nazi chemist slave for months


Heisenberg ruined his life beyond words

The only positive thing in his life was dying and Walt just watched the chick fade out

Lol..

 

[hex]

Quiet, small-time, no drama? He got raided by the DEA in episode one. But yeah things definitely got much bigger when he was dealing with Walt, no doubt. However everything goes back to his choice to get involved in the game in the first place. He had choices. He wasn't some kid with nothing or no one that figured he had nothing to lose. He had an option to be square and chose the street life. Just like Walt. Difference is Walt was able to adjust and roll with it. Jesse wasn't. That's not Walt's fault or his problem.

These cats were selling drugs not insurance. Jesse either knew the rules of the game or he should have. They were in a ruthless world dealing with ruthless people. You can't exactly be a boy scout and survive in that world. I am not absolving Walt from guilt for the things that he was responsible for (tearing his family apart, poisoning that kid) I just don't think you can include ruining Jesse's life among those things. Jesse has to wear that. Jesse put himself in a fukked up position from jump and made bad decision after bad decision.

He didn't get raided, they raided Emilio. That might seem like a minor distinction but @Propaganda was right, he was small-time. They had no idea who Jesse was prior to him getting involved with Walt. Keep in mind the only reason he was on the DEA's radar is because Walt name dropped him to Skyler, who mentioned him to Hank, which sent him after Jesse's car....and into a shoot out with Tuco.

I'm gonna assume you don't know many drug dealers because there's a massive difference between Jesse and actually "being in the game". Dude was a nobody in the grand scheme of things, until he started fukking with Walt.

Fred.

 

[Toe Jay Simpson]

Even though Gus was using him to get to Walt it seemed like Jesse was about to have it made in his organization. He even won over Mike who was an o.g. who knew the ropes inside and out. For a dude that never accomplished anything in life to walk away from that just out of loyalty to Walt says a lot about him IMO

If anything, Jesse in the end turned out to be the most morally redeemable character (to do dirt) in the series. Even Skylar had blood on her hands which is why she deserved to be publicly disgraced in that roach motel she ended up in

 

[FTBS]

He didn't get raided, they raided Emilio. That might seem like a minor distinction but @Propaganda was right, he was small-time. They had no idea who Jesse was prior to him getting involved with Walt. Keep in mind the only reason he was on the DEA's radar is because Walt name dropped him to Skyler, who mentioned him to Hank, which sent him after Jesse's car....and into a shoot out with Tuco.

I'm gonna assume you don't know many drug dealers because there's a massive difference between Jesse and actually "being in the game". Dude was a nobody in the grand scheme of things, until he started fukking with Walt.

Fred.

He was working with Emilio though. He came that close to being caught up in that raid. You say "they raided Emilio" as if there was no connection between the two. The operation that he was involved in was on DEA's radar.

Skyler already knew Jesse. She tracked him down after his dumb ass called Walt on the house phone. Walt tried to play it off like he was just buying weed from him. Then Jesse brings Tuco to his fukkin house which lead to Walt's disappearance which led to Hank's search for him and Jesse. Who was the one who had the in with Tuco in the first place? Jesse.

Selling drugs is selling drugs. It's not like he was blind to what was going on. He even tried to put Walt up on game in certain instances. He had connects. He wasn't just some innocent lamb that Walt led to slaughter. What did Walt have before Jesse? If Jesse wasn't even in the game then what was Walt before they hooked up? Walt didn't know the first thing about selling drugs and had no real way of getting into it without Jesse. Jesse on the other hand was on a collision course with jail or death prior to their partnership.