Damn, Elden Ring did very well in America sales wise.

[AngryBaby]

This is a really bad argument.

This is like trying to argue that virtua fighter's combat isnt as extensive as street fighter because it has less button inputs and combos.

I dont play virtua fighter or street fighter.

But i do for example play MK11 and Soul Caliber, and you can argue which game has more contextual commands and expansive moveset versatility (soul calibur).

Whether you prefer one game over the other for other reasons is up for opinion.

And player vs player interaction in a game has different nuances to understand than a primarily single player combat system

For example, you can go into an empty room and practice combos for hours in bayonetta or DMC. Can you really do that to the same extent in Elden ring? No. You'd exhaust the possibilities alot quicker.

Which is fine. Just dont act like its as good mechanically when its not. Im not understanding why that is remotely difficult to accept.

 

[DaddyFresh]

I remember going from the gameplay of Dark Souls and Bloodborne to The Witcher 3's flabby combat and being like . This ain't it.

Same with God of War vs the From games. There's levels to this shyt.

There's some good writing on The Witcher 3 but From's entire approach to storytelling is much more interesting to me. They create mysterious etheral worlds where the total meaning of things can never be fully grapsed. They do their storytelling largely through environmental storytelling, item descriptions and NPC dialogue. I love that they are game ass games. I prefer that to the cinematic approach.

I started Witcher 3 and got a couple hours in and then copped ghost of Tsushima and could never go back to those cranky ass controls. Game is mad overrated.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I dont play virtua fighter or street fighter.

But i do for example play MK11 and Soul Caliber, and you can argue which game has more contextual commands and expansive moveset versatility (soul calibur).

Whether you prefer one game over the other for other reasons is up for opinion.

And player vs player interaction in a game has different nuances to understand than a primarily single player combat system

For example, you can go into an empty room and practice combos for hours in bayonetta or DMC. Can you really do that to the same extent in Elden ring? No. You'd exhaust the possibilities alot quicker.

Which is fine. Just dont act like its as good mechanically when its not. Im not understanding why that is remotely difficult to accept.

Because you are specifically talking about combos. If you wanna say a game like DMC has more complex attack combos, then sure you can have that.

Dark souls complexity comes in the strategy and management of weapons and resources.

In DMC you may have to hit a combo of buttons to do a specific set of moves.

In Elden ring you may have to hit a combo of buttons to chose a spell, heal yourself, attack, and summon a familiar.

Either way you gotta get good with the buttons.

 

[AngryBaby]

Because you are specifically talking about combos. If you wanna say a game like DMC has more complex attack combos, then sure you can have that.

Dark souls complexity comes in the strategy and management of weapons and resources.

In DMC you may have to hit a combo of buttons to do a specific set of moves.

In Elden ring you may have to hit a combo of buttons to chose a spell, heal yourself, attack, and summon a familiar.

Either way you gotta get good with the buttons.

Yeah but id argue overall, one is harder to master and become intricate at than the other.

Shifting through a UI isnt exactly as a difficult or impressive as putting together intricate strings etc. Not to mention its not like those games didnt have you managing items and switching wepons etc either. People seem to forget that those games have that element also.

Hell kingdom hearts had a way more cumbersome way of managing magic and items in live combat than souls games. But i wouldnt factor that into combat complexity or GOOD combat. Thats just a UI thing.

And theres a difference between great combat mechanics, and great enemy design and encounters. Alot of these people dont know the difference

 

[5n0man]

I dont play virtua fighter or street fighter.

But i do for example play MK11 and Soul Caliber, and you can argue which game has more contextual commands and expansive moveset versatility (soul calibur).

I can tell you right now that virtua fighter with its limited movesets and contextual commands, is deeper than any fighting game you ever played.

 

[Deafheaven]

Oh good, So you know mass effect 1 especially, gunplay wasnt the main focus. Apply the same logic to the witcher.

But you didnt even play 3 right?lol (which has way better combat than 2) At least im 80 hrs into elden ring.

And what about the other games, if you have played them. Then you know that im right.

bro your reading comprehension is sus. I played ME 1, 1 for the first time recently. I played and beat 2 and 3 a decade ago when they came out.

 

[Deafheaven]

I can tell you right now that virtua fighter with its limited movesets and contextual commands, is deeper than any fighting game you ever played.

you have to do option selects in that game to even break throws.

dudes a bum breh IDK why we even wasting our posts. Said he plays soul calibur and mk



even then his argument is trash. Tekken and soul calibur have extensive movesets but anyone who knows what they are doing use maybe 8-10 of those with regularity. All them other shyts have super niche uses.

this the dude who is doing -48 launchers because hes like Im so good I use all the moves

bum!

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Yeah but id argue overall, one is harder to master and become intricate at than the other.

Shifting through a UI isnt exactly as a difficult or impressive as putting together intricate strings etc.

Ultimately with either game you have to put together a string of timely button presses to be successful.

Shifting through an inventory IS impressive when you have to do it in real time and adapt through the encounter.

Soulsborne games take longer to “master” as it takes the average person 40+ Hours to get good enough to beat the games.

DMC is definitely quicker to master. Once you learn a good combo you a pretty much good for the rest of the game. In souls games you constantly have to improve and evolve your skills to win.

Not to mention its not like those games didnt have you managing items and switching wepons etc either. People seem to forget that those games have that element also.

No. It’s not nearly the same. In DMC style games you chose your weapon and you go to work, you may have to hit a button to heal yourself, but for the most part you don’t even have to worry about strategy during a fight. Don’t have to worry about stamina or positioning. All you have to worry about is hitting your controller combo at the right time.

Hell kingdom hearts had a way more cumbersome way of managing magic and items in live combat than souls games. But i wouldnt factor that into combat complexity or GOOD combat. Thats just a UI thing.

Stop it. Out of all the games you’ve now mentioned kingdoms hearts is basically on rails. The game almost plays itself

And theres a difference between great combat mechanics, and great enemy design and encounters. Alot of these people dont know the difference

They should go hand in hand. But seems you are the one who doesn’t understand how that works

 

[AngryBaby]

bro your reading comprehension is sus. I played ME 1, 1 for the first time recently. I played and beat 2 and 3 a decade ago when they came out.

Lol Uh, no yours is. I understood that you played the game, in fact my intitial argument assumed you did anyway.

So since you played the game, I said you should then understand that combat, especially in the first game, wasnt me1's primary focus, or what its good at. Similar to the witcher 3

 

[AngryBaby]

Ultimately with either game you have to put together a string of timely button presses to be successful.

Shifting through an inventory IS impressive when you have to do it in real time and adapt through the encounter.

Soulsborne games take longer to “master” as it takes the average person 40+ Hours to get good enough to beat the games

.

Uhhh no, the combat mechanics dont take that long to master. The systems maybe of the overall game take longer to fully get. But the mechanics? No.

DMC is definitely quicker to master. Once you learn a good combo you a pretty much good for the rest of the game. In souls games you constantly have to improve and evolve your skills to win.

Are you talking about just "beating the game" or we talking about beating the game on an S rating like you are supposed to? Because you wouldnt be able to use the same combination over and over again. Not to mention there are various weapons and stances to switch between in DMC. Swordmaster/royal guard/gunslinger etc

And once again, what difficulty are we talking about.

also...do we not care about sickness in our combat systems anymore? Just plain old creative nastiness? Or do we just care about results. Because souls isn't sick either, it doesnt have that swagger at all. Missionary. Its about results.

but i get it. Most people play god of war or DMC etc pushing square square triangle, because they theoretically can on default difficulty settings.

No. It’s not nearly the same. In DMC style games you chose your weapon and you go to work, you may have to hit a button to heal yourself, but for the most part you don’t even have to worry about strategy during a fight. Don’t have to worry about stamina or positioning. All you have to worry about is hitting your controller combo at the right time.

At what difficulty level are we talking about? Lol

Stop it. Out of all the games you’ve now mentioned kingdoms hearts is basically on rails. The game almost plays itself

The item and UI system, i said its more cumbersome to navigate in live combat than souls. Which it is. Its an example of a item/magic system that you use in real time in combat. Thats the only connection im making...holy shyt guys lol im not saying its combat overall is comparable or better, just that one aspect. I shouldnt have to clarify that, but apparently I do lol

 

[Deafheaven]

Man I never put anyone on ignore but this dude is insufferable. Never seen someone be so wrong and or arguing over nothing in here in ages. Cant be more 15

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Uhhh no, the combat mechanics dont take that long to master. The systems maybe of the overall game take longer to fully get. But the mechanics? No.

You can’t divorce the mechanics from the systems cause you have to manage them all in real time.

Are you talking about just "beating the game" or we talking about beating the game on an S rating like you are supposed to? Because you wouldnt be able to use the same combination over and over again. Not to mention there are various weapons and stances to switch between in DMC. Swordmaster/royal guard/gunslinger etc

And once again, what difficulty are we talking about.

also...do we not care about sickness in our combat systems anymore? Just plain old creative nastiness? Or do we just care about results. Because souls isn't sick either, it doesnt have that swagger at all. Missionary. Its about results.

but i get it. Most people play god of war or DMC etc pushing square square triangle, because they theoretically can on default difficulty settings.

Just to beat the game you have to learn, adapt, and master lots more in a souls game.

If you want to talk about actually mastering the game and completing all content, there’s no contest. Souls games take lots more effort and mastery.

A perfect play through of a souls game is infinitely more impressive than a DMC one.

The item and UI system, i said its more cumbersome to navigate in live combat than souls. Which it is. Its an example of a item/magic system that you use in real time in combat. Thats the only connection im making...holy shyt guys lol im not saying its combat overall is comparable or better, just that one aspect. I shouldnt have to clarify that, but apparently I do lol

It has nothing to do with “cumbersome”
Your point was that DMC was more “complex” due to the need for “complex” button combos.

My point was that the button combos in Souls games are just as complex, you are just doing different things.

 

[AngryBaby]

Man I never put anyone on ignore but this dude is insufferable. Never seen someone be so wrong and or arguing over nothing in here in ages. Cant be more 15

yet you really can't argue why I'm "wrong" lol and in all honesty...your arguments here have been the most immature and derailing out of anyone.

here's a recap: I just initially said that there are certain itches in the open world RPG landscape that Elden Ring doesn't necessarily scratch; there are things it does extremely well, and things that it doesn't do, that other games like the witcher 3, mass effect, or elder scrolls do for example that would prevent me from wanting the industry to completely follow it's lead, which people imply as if it already does what those games do.

you had a problem with that, and wanted to disparage the other games in favor of souls. So here we are. In the midst of it all, we started talking combat also. if you can't keep up with the conversation, that's fine. I'll help.

But you clearly are getting so upset that you are tempted to ignore, as if you are being trolled or berated or something. When in reality every point you brought up has been responded to, I didn't get that in return lol i should ignore you tbh. I won't though.

 

[AngryBaby]

You can’t divorce the mechanics from the systems cause you have to manage them all in real time.

a new souls player understanding how to upgrade his weapons with smithing stones and where to find each variant, using talismans and stats for say...bleed or holy damage , and creating an overall build for PVP takes grinding and understanding the rpg systems. it has little to do with mechanical skill or dexterity of inputs. They are different.

Just to beat the game you have to learn, adapt, and master lots more in a souls game.

you generally level, and upgrade, and build. That's all you need to get through a souls game, like any RPG. The hardcore component is within PVP.

Oh, but let me guess leveling is making the game "easier", lol good luck in PVP with that attitude. also that concept essentially makes the RPG component of the game meaningless. Miyazaki wants you to find the cool shyt and upgrade. and find the upgrades in cool places, arguably the best part of the game, not the combat.

If you want to talk about actually mastering the game and completing all content, there’s no contest. Souls games take lots more effort and mastery.

A perfect play through of a souls game is infinitely more impressive than a DMC one.

very arguable. and also doesn't mean one has more complex or expansive combat systems either, even if that was the case. Souls does some...interesting things in a design sense, in order to keep things...awkward

It has nothing to do with “cumbersome”
Your point was that DMC was more “complex” due to the need for “complex” button combos.

My point was it's more expansive, fluid, offers more creative versatility, nastier, and the dexterity involved to set up a string and get an SSS combo or something is more complex than what you need to in Elden ring to kill a basic enemy. I'm playing Elden now, the shyt isn't hard... doesn't exactly make my fingers hurt lol

 

[AngryBaby]

I started Witcher 3 and got a couple hours in and then copped ghost of Tsushima and could never go back to those cranky ass controls. Game is mad overrated.

a couple hours lol that's like staying on destiny islands in kingdom hearts. Never leaving limgrave in Elden Ring.

ghosts of tsushima is designed too much like a prettier ubisoft game for me. Casuals who don't care about quest variation and quality and just like to repetitively fight and do stealth segments in spread out camps are the ones who choose that game.