Considering their tiny population are Jamaicans the most influential people ever?

[Mr.Big Meat McGee]

And addressing this:"no jazz, the first true global takeover music"

That alone debunks the silly myth that the AA influence came world wide only because America was a superpower/riches nation. Jazz is arguable the most popular/global genre there is... And like I said the influence came well before America was a world power.

I think your confusing Jazz and Rock/Pop

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Such as?

Boyz in the Hood, the Color Purple, Roots, A Raisin in the Sun, etc. Then we have TV shows.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I think your confusing Jazz and Rock

I'm not confusing shyt. Jazz is almost like the "default" genre. It can be PLAYED ANYWHERE. I dare you to play some Rock music in some of the most conservative Islamic countries like Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran or Iraq and watch what happens. Hell I don't even think Chicago songs are safe. Meanwhile, you can play some nice soothing Jazz music in those countries like in the lobby of a hotel.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

let me stir the pot

outside music and gangs, what is AA's global influence?

for one, the afram civil rights/humanitarianism influence on a global scale/historically is big and truly crossed and influenced people of many ethnic groups and racial backgrounds.

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...........inspiring positive vibes around the world...crossing all races and geographic locations

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Black/South Asian Brits


The Amazing Lost Legacy of the British Black Panthers

While, in the mid-1960s, the Black Panthers – the famous, American, shotgun-toting ones – were scaring the crap out of white America, the British Black Panthers (BBP) were educating their communities and fighting discrimination. Outrightly racist laws that threatened to repatriate entire swathes of the black population were being pushed into place, and sections of the white middle classes were resentful towards the black community. But the BBP – based in Brixton, south London – helped to change all that, educating British black people about their history and giving them a voice to speak out against prejudice.

However, despite their successes and influence on black communities in the UK, very little is known about the British Black Panthers. Knowledge of the group – which included figures such as Darcus Howe, Linton Kwesi Johnson and the late Olive Morris – and its aims and achievements isn't aided by the fact that they only officially existed from 1968 till 1972. Luckily, Neil Kenlock – one of the group's core members – took it upon himself to become their official in-house photographer, capturing images of their meetings, campaigns, marches and presence in local communities.

This month, a new exhibition put together by Organised Youth – a group of 13-25-year-olds who were inspired by the activism of the British Black Panthers – will profile Neil's work at a gallery in Brixton, alongside contemporary photos, interviews and a documentary film (click here for more information). I had a talk with Neil ahead of that about the Panthers and their legacy in Britain.

VICE: So, first off, how did you become involved in the the British Black Panther movement?

Neil Kenlock: Well, I encountered racism when I was quite young – maybe 16 or 17. I went to a club in Streatham, and when I arrived I was told it was full and that I should come back next week. Which I did, and I was then told they wouldn't let me in because they didn't want "my type" in there. I protested that I didn't see why I shouldn't be let in. There were, of course, no discrimination laws in those days, so there was no one to tell about this.

And you were never let in?

My friend and I pointed out that we were well dressed, weren't there to make trouble and just wanted to enjoy ourselves like other people, so what was the problem? We were told to go or the police would be called. We wouldn't go, so they called the police, who then told us that we weren't wanted in the club and that we should go home. I pointed out we weren't breaking any laws and the police told us they would arrest us if we didn't leave. I really didn't want my parents to have to come to Streatham police station and bail me out, so I left. But, on my way home, I decided that I was going to fight against unfairness and discrimination in this country.

Neil Kenlock self-portrait. 1970.

How did you come across the Panthers, then?

Well, some weeks later, I saw a Panther in Brixton giving out leaflets about police brutality and discrimination. I joined them then.

Had you already been exposed to the American Black Panthers prior to that?

I'd seen them on TV and things, but I hadn't taken much notice. It might have flashed across my mind, but it wasn't really in my consciousness. It was all more to do with what had happened to me, personally, and that I felt it was wrong. I saw them giving out those leaflets and thought, 'This is what I want to be – I want to fight against discrimination and racism and all the bad things that happen to us.' So I joined.

When was that?

About 1968, just after I left school.

And at that time how well organised was the movement? Was it a unified group or more ad hoc?
It was fairly organised. They had a building they were working from in Shakespeare Road, Brixton and a house in north London. They were having meetings, talking about history and all the societal systems – capitalism, socialism and all that stuff. They were teaching us things we weren't taught at school. Back then, we weren't taught any black history – we knew we'd been slaves, but there was no information about the struggles we had faced to get our freedom. We were taught to be proud of our history and colour. Black people then weren't clear about themselves; they weren't strong, they were submissive. They believed in the establishment, society and the system.

Was the link between the British Black Panthers and the Black Panthers an official one? Or was the name informally adopted? I know, for instance, that you guys didn't condone gun use at all.


It was just an adoption of the name. There was informal contact, but nothing on an official basis. They were a political, radical and revolutionary party. We were a movement – we were never interested in gaining seats in Parliament or behaving like a political party. We were a movement aiming to educate our communities and to fight injustice and discrimination. That was our mantra. America was just coming out of segregation then, while we never had it. So there was a huge difference between our problems and theirs.

What were the issues that the British Black Panthers were combating, specifically?

While we were another large black population, we had no segregation here. But it was difficult for us to get adjusted to this country, and there were cultural clashes for us, too. Our parents weren't given good jobs, only menial tasks, factory jobs – there were no real black professionals in Britian. The challenge here was to get a fair deal, to climb that ladder.

There was also a cultural issue, and if I was to blame anyone for that it would be the British middle class and the political class, because they didn't educate the working-class British about the history of black people. They weren't told that we were taken from Africa, that we were actually slaves for this country for over 300 years. And at the end of slavery, plantation owners were compensated, while we got nothing, not even an apology. So, in those days, we believed we had a right to be in this country – we had helped build this country and we deserved some benefits from that. We felt we had a right to share in the profits, while British people felt, 'Why are they here taking our jobs?'

A protester is arrested by police.

So the Panthers were there to educate people about all that?

Yeah, the middle and political classes did nothing to explain the situation. That was what we were trying to get across – that we deserved to be here and we needed laws that reflected that. At the time, they were trying to repatriate us. It was outrageous – you can't take us from Africa, enslave us, and after we've built the country up after the war, tell us to go back. No. That's not on.

How much did you interact with other rights groups? Anti-fascists, for example? Or were you fairly insular at the time?

We had some links with the Socialist Workers and other left-wing groups, and there were many intellectuals who were funding the Panthers – as well as actors and actresses and the like. Left-leaning people were supporting us. We weren't "racist" as such, but we decided that all our members should be black because we were there to educate and advance black people. We felt we needed to be able to sit together and talk about our situation and our history, and to do so in confidence without interruption.

The British Black Panthers eventually dissolved into numerous other groups – what caused that? Was it planned?

The British Black Panthers, in my opinion, came into being as a result of the discrimination that many students from the Commonwealth faced. Back then, the best students from the Commonwealth were sent to Britain to be educated. Many of those who associated with the Panthers were those sorts of people; they had never encountered discrimination in their own countries, where they were the sons or daughters of the middle classes. So when they got here for university, they discovered this inequality and decided to fight against that, but they needed support in our communities, so they came to Brixton and met people like me who shared these challenges, and we worked together.

After we'd educated these students and our communities, lots of the students returned to their countries – in many cases to positions of leadership. We were left with lots of the things we'd been campaigning for actually being achieved. The repatriation bill was quashed, the idea of deportation was gone and the movement just dissolved – not in an organised way, but people just stopped coming around and stopped doing things.

So the dissolving of the BBP was a reflection of its success, to an extent?

Yes. I think we helped to change the way we were perceived in this country. And many of those students who were set to return to the Commonwealth had good jobs waiting for them back home, in government, legal practice and so on – they no longer wanted to risk their future careers by being involved with us.

What do you think the core legacy of the Panthers in Britain was?

The Black Panther movement was a secretive movement, yet it had a great impact on discrimination in this country. The legacy is in all the proposed laws regarding deportation being quashed. We made sure the government were properly educating our children. Lots of black children back then were educated in subnormal schools – those things were quashed, too. There were a lot of successes, but they weren't really attributed to the Black Panthers, even though they were the work of the Panthers. It's a hidden story – that's why it's important that these photos exist. Without them, it would have been difficult to tell this story, especially to young people. The legacy of the photos themselves is important.

Were you aware when taking these photos that they would become an important document in Britain's social history?

It was very conscious. When I joined the Panthers, it was a reaction to how I was treated. I felt that this was what I could do for the Panthers. I could record their meetings, their marches, their efforts. Many of the photos were used in our meetings and so on. It was a conscious contribution to the movement.

The Amazing Lost Legacy of the British Black Panthers | VICE | United Kingdom

 

[IllmaticDelta]

..the influence is unmatched....jamaican's in their entire existence have never been this influential

Asian Americans

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Young Lords

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Brown Berets (Chicanos)

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Polynesians

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Australian Aboriginal Panthers

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Dalit Panthers

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Israeli Panthers

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Amerindian Movement/Red Power

 

[NoGutsNoGLory]

Lets see...

1. Fashion
2. Food(yes food)
3. Dances(I literally see almost every group on instagram doing the 'dap' lol)
4. Films
5. Slangs
6. Hairstyles(cant tell you how many Ethiopians I saw in Ethiopia rocking hairstyles from USA)
7. Black empowerment

I can go on.

I agree with the other stuff but I can't agree on film, our best director was really not that good compared to some of the greats. I can't really think of any type of film revolution we created outside of blaxploitation and well.......idk.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I agree with the other stuff but I can't agree on film, our best director was really not that good compared to some of the greats. I can't really think of any type of film revolution we created outside of blaxploitation and well.......idk.

I'm mostly talking about films being exported around the world. Not whether they were revolutionary or not.

 

[NoGutsNoGLory]

Boyz in the Hood, the Color Purple, Roots, A Raisin in the Sun, etc. Then we have TV shows.

Those movies are not influential, they're good but definitely not groundbreaking. I don't really know how to classify African American cinema. We seem to focus on our everyday lives which in itself I suppose is a unique thing but it doesn't translate well because it can't influence others as they aren't black and not even black but rather African American as you can't expect a Ghanaian to really mimic our films.

 

[NoGutsNoGLory]

I'm mostly talking about films being exported around the world. Not whether they were revolutionary or not.

Ah I see, fair enough.

 

[Mr.Big Meat McGee]

I'm not confusing shyt. Jazz is almost like the "default" genre. It can be PLAYED ANYWHERE. I dare you to play some Rock music in some of the most conservative Islamic countries like Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran or Iraq and watch what happens. Hell I don't even think Chicago songs are safe. Meanwhile, you can play some nice soothing Jazz music in those countries like in the lobby of a hotel.

You said Jazz is the most popular in the world which is not true.

Default / Elevator music ≠ most popular

Go to your average mall / resturant and 9/10 times there's Pop or Rock playing in stores. You can go on the street and ask someone if they know who Coltrane or Miles Davis bet they won't know but if you ask em who Katy Perry or Lady Gaga is they'll know

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I think as Afro-Brazilians gain more rights and more media exposure they too can be influential like AAs and Jamaicans on a large scale. I mean they already influenced much of Brazilian culture(similar to what AAs did with American one). Not only that they created Capoeira and Samba which are already popular worldwide. Not only that but they are also gaining more traction in MMA/UFC.

@IllmaticDelta @Dip @Yehuda do yall agree?

 

[mbewane]

EVEN BY POPULATION THE JEWS GOT US ON THAT TOO. MUSIC? YEP BUY THAT FROM THEM. MOVIES? SPORTS? NOT ONLY THAT BUT THEY DECIDE WHAT FADS WE INVENT GET POPULAR. THE NEW SLANG COMES FROM OUR MUSIC. IT WOULD STAY REGIONAL IF THEY DIDN'T SIGN THE ARTIST TO SPREAD IT. THERE ARE ROUGHLY 16 MILLION JEWS WORLDWIDE ACCORDING TO GOOGLE. THEIR INFLUENCE TO POPULATION RATIO IS OFF THE CHARTS.

Lowkey this might be the correct answer. And they have been influential for centuries.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

You said Jazz is the most popular in the world which is not true.

Default / Elevator music ≠ most popular

Go to your average mall / resturant and 9/10 times there's Pop or Rock playing in stores. You can go on the street and ask someone if they know who Coltrane or Miles Davis bet they won't know but if you ask em who Katy Perry or Lady Gaga is they'll know

Okay now you're just joking. Most restaurants, stores, hotels, supermarkets,etc has Jazz music playing compared to Rock. The fact that Jazz is played as elevator music ALONE shows that Jazz is more appreciated than Rock. Lady Gaga and Katy Perry aren't even Rock but Pop music artist. Are you kidding? Also you seem to be going exclusively by younger generations. Forget that lets talk about generations of every age in countries around the world.

lol. Go to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia blasting Katy, Lady Gaga, or Metallica and you'll most likely receive 100 lashes(minimum). Meanwhile blast some Jazz music and even if stopped by the authorities you most likely get away with it safely compared to Rock. The fact that Jazz music is default music again SHOWS its much more appreciated than Rock. Like I said you can play Jazz ANYWHERE in ANY country. The same can't be said for Rock or Lady Gaga. lol

 

[IllmaticDelta]

this is total . Jamaican music was hardly influenced by american music at all.

..you don't know your history...listen to the OG Jamaican musicians tell you where they learned their shyt

For a start ska

based on american shuffle/herky jerky R&B

and reggae are both played on the downbeat, american music didn't start doing that until decades later with funk.

based on soul/funk










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Im going to explain further why Reggae is the Jamaican version of Soul music w/ native Jamaicanisms mixed in and why, Reggae wouldn't exist w/o the Soul foundation. It was from Soul that Jamaica went from horn driven Ska to Vocal and bass dominated Rocksteady/Reggae.

Rocksteady, even more so the early reggae that followed, was built around the "one drop" drum beat, characterized by a heavy accent on the second and fourth beat of every bar (or the third beat if one counts in double time), played by the bass drum and the snare together. The snare drum often plays a side stick "click" rather that a full snare hit; an influence from Latin music. This differs markedly from the drumming styles in R&B and rock and roll, which put the bass drum on the first beat (the downbeat) and almost never on the second and fourth beats). Jamaican musicians sometimes refer to the second and fourth beats as the "afterbeat". All the Jamaican styles of kit drumming since ska have incorporated a mixture of influences, including African burru percussion, American jazz and R&B, and Latin rhythms. The slowing in perceived tempo that occurred with rocksteady opened the door for drummers to explore these influences more. With the advent of the drum machine and computer in the 1980s, Jamaican popular music i.e. "dancehall" began to draw on other rhythms such as Kumina and to a lesser extent, American hip-hop so that recent music from Jamaica bears little resemblance to the rhythms and beats of classic ska, rocksteady and reggae.

This slowing that occurred with rocksteady allowed bass players to explore more broken, syncopated figures, playing a counterpoint to the repetitive rhythm of the guitar and keyboards and this new style eventually largely replaced the walking patterns that had been so characteristic of many ska recordings. These new patterns fit very well with the simpler modal chord progressions often used by Jamaican players. Byron Lee was the first ska band leader to have a full-time electric bass. By 1966, the advantages of recording and performing with electric bass had meant most players made the switch to electric. A number of factors led to smaller band sizes and this in turn led to changes in the way the music was composed and arranged. The slower tempo and smaller band sizes in turn led to a much larger focus on the bass line in general, which eventually became one of the most recognizable characteristics of Jamaican music. In rocksteady, the lead guitar often doubles the bass line, in the muted picking style created by Lynn Taitt, a technique that continued on into reggae.

Smaller band sizes and slower tempos also led to a number of changes in the way horn parts were written and arranged. Whereas, in ska, the horn section had often spent much of the song playing the offbeats with the guitar and piano, in rocksteady they favored repeated rhythmic patterns or simply sitting out all together until the lead line.

Rocksteady and reggae are perhaps best thought of and notated as a half time feel, in which case one would count at twice the tempo. This would mean the guitar-piano offbeats would fall on beats 2 and 4, and the "one drop" of the snare/kick drum would fall on beat 3. This also allows transcribers to use the term "swing 8ths" to help notate hi-hat patterns, for example.

Rocksteady - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The year 1966 greatly changed Jamaican music as the rocksteady style appeared. Some have cited this as the transition from American-derived ska to native Jamaican reggae, though this is not entirely accurate. In truth, Jamaican music continued to be influenced by American soul and British pop, which by the mid-1960s was smoother, slower, and more melodic — the widely popular Motown style and thhe lush Philadelphia soul sound are examples. Jamaican musicians responded to this with their own slower, more laid-back sound, dubbed "rocksteady" for its smoothness and mellower rhythms. A few accounts claim that the intense summer heat of 1966 caused Jamaican musicians to slow down their tempos; this seems less likely than the fact that American soul was itself growing mellower and more laid-back. Though the rough, raw ska sound stayed popular (and would not fade until 1967), another strain of Jamaican pop had developed which ultimately had more influence both within Jamaica and internationally.


Rocksteady not only slowed down the tempos, but it shifted the emphasis from horns to guitar and vocals. The jumpy, syncopated beat became less pronounced and more lilting, and the resulting sound is a more relaxed version of American soul. Three prime examples of the new sound are Delroy Wilson's "Dancing Mood," The Gaylads' "Stop Making Love," and, more importantly, Desmond Dekker's "Israelites" and "007 (Shanty Town)." All these tunes, as well as others in the rocksteady style, bear much more resemblance to American soul and gospel than to the earthy, rollicking New Orleans-derived ska sound, which by 1966 was fading as a common musical idiom. Still, Jamaican artists kept responding to American and European pop and continued to adapt it to their own well-developed traditions and ideas about music.

Burnin' Vernon's Original Ska Page

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from the main orchestrator of what came to be Rocksteady from which Reggae came

Lynn Taitt orchestrates rocksteady's birth

Putting together his classic aggregation Lynn Taitt and the Jets, which was to become the epitome of rocksteady music, Taitt worked for a time with Federal Records in 1966.

The move was timely insofar as rocksteady music was concerned, as Hopeton Lewis arrived at the studio during that same year, with the hope of recording an uptempo song.

Taitt was on the verge of creating history, and uncovered the first piece of his musical genius, which he described in his own words:

"Hopeton Lewis came to the Federal Recording Studios with a song called Take It Easy, and I find the beat was too fast, very fast. So I told them, "Let's do this one slow", and as the music got slower, it had spaces. The slower the music, it had more spaces to do something with, so I put a bass line and play guitar in unison with the bass, and I get a bass line and the piano, Sometimes I strum, sometimes I play a bass line with the bass. That was the first slow song. Nothing else was slow at that time, everything had been ska."

Taitt had, perhaps unwittingly, created a genre called rocksteady, after pianist Gladstone Anderson remarked on the rocksteady nature of the rhythm after finishing the final take

With the emergence of rocksteady, Taitt helped to shift the rhythmic focus to the bass and the drums, instead of emphasising the horns - a feature of ska.

This feature, which has remained an ingredient of dancehall music, has also helped to bring vocalists to the fore.

Taitt always seemed eager to give everybody a touch of his magic.

Lynn Taitt orchestrates rocksteady's birth


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now lets look a little deeper

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and the Soul explosion in Jamaica

 

[MR. SNIFLES]

Lowkey this might be the correct answer. And they have been influential for centuries.

TOP 3 AT LEAST. BUT LET THEM CONTINUE ARGUING OVER WHO CREATED THE TOE WOP.