Considering their tiny population are Jamaicans the most influential people ever?

[IllmaticDelta]

you people forgetting that it was children of Jamaicans that even invented hiphop?

Fact: the first rappers wasnt from da Bronx... they was Pimps down south

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Jamaica is used to being the big fish amongst the caribbean islands.

Ya tried to throw your weight around us. And we aptly gave the

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

This is getting embarrassing...

It's how Atlanta nikkas used to look arguing about hip hop on message boards before trap.
LOL.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I'm not confusing shyt. Jazz is almost like the "default" genre. It can be PLAYED ANYWHERE. I dare you to play some Rock music in some of the most conservative Islamic countries like Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran or Iraq and watch what happens. Hell I don't even think Chicago songs are safe. Meanwhile, you can play some nice soothing Jazz music in those countries like in the lobby of a hotel.

I don't think many realize just how revolutionary and globalized Jazz really was/is. It truly was the default popular musical genre all over world really until Rock N Roll and then Soul came along.

 

[bouncy]

This nikkas star stay touching on topics that other people won't touch.

Listening to the other people on the show, its sad how fukked up we are as black people. One American, one Haitian, one Bajan(Bahamas), and everyone going at each other, but its the west indians talking crazy. They are joking, but its still some truth of how they feel, being told.



This is Blue Pill talking about how backwards we as black people have gotten in our thinking. He notices, just like I do, the shyt for us has gotten worse then in the 80's, and 90's. I really can't understand why, but it seems like we are own worse enemy, at the worse of our people have taken over. Don't put me on the c00ntrain for that statement, but its true, when you look at how we go at each for so many different reasons, but we keep hating on whites. We are in a state of extreme cognitive dissonance!

Anyway, just listen to him talk while you are doing something else, because I think its good to hear someone put the bullshyt in your face to help you see the ignorance that can sometimes just be a part of your everyday.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

when u look at this thread and think of the hate its a real crab n the barrel like mentality people have...especially the bitter onea..i am not calling any names

call names breh

 

[IllmaticDelta]

cont from jazz fashion...


Mod (subculture in Britain)

Mod is a subculture that began in the United Kingdom in the 1960s and spread, in varying degrees, to other countries[1] and continues today on a smaller scale. Focused on music and fashion, the subculture has its roots in a small group of stylish London-based young men in the late 1950s who were termed modernists because they listened to modern jazz,[2] although the subculture expanded to include women.

According to dikk Hebdige, by around 1963, the mod subculture had gradually accumulated the identifying symbols that later came to be associated with the scene, such as scooters, amphetamine pills and R&B music.[14] While clothes were still important at that time, they could be ready-made. dikk Hebdige wrote the term mod covered a number of styles including the emergence of Swinging London, though to him it has come to define Melly's working class clothes-conscious teenagers living in London and south England in the early to mid 1960s.[14]

Mary Anne Long argues that "first hand accounts and contemporary theorists point to the Jewish upper-working or middle-class of London’s East End and suburbs."[15] Simon Frith asserts that the mod subculture had its roots in the 1950s beatnik coffee bar culture, which catered to art school students in the radical Bohemian scene in London.[16] Steve Sparks, who claims to be one of the original mods, agrees that before mod became commercialised, it was essentially an extension of the beatnik culture: "It comes from ‘modernist’, it was to do with modern jazz and to do with Sartre" and existentialism.[15] Sparks argues that "Mod has been much misunderstood ... as this working-class, scooter-riding precursor of skinheads."

Coffee bars were attractive to British youths because, in contrast to typical pubs, which closed at about 11pm, they were open until the early hours of the morning. Coffee bars had jukeboxes, which in some cases reserved space in the machines for the customers' own records. In the late 1950s, coffee bars were associated with jazz and blues, but in the early 1960s, they began playing more R&B music. Frith notes that although coffee bars were originally aimed at middle-class art school students, they began to facilitate an intermixing of youths from different backgrounds and classes.[17] At these venues, which Frith calls the "first sign of the youth movement", young people would meet collectors of R&B and blues records, who introduced them to new types of African-American music, which the teens were attracted to for its rawness and authenticity.

Without the Modernist subculture and the spark it generated, Britain’s soul would today remain a conservative grey; sterile in expression, decisively bland in flavour, humbled by a collapsed Empire. The curious and hungry spirit for something new amongst the earliest Mods eventually presented Britain’s stiff upper lip a new bosom to caress. This is the first part of a small series where we will take you through the back story of what Mod really is and how it developed into the coolest subculture in Britain and beyond.



(Authors Note – LDS, Feb 15)


‘Modernism has no birthday’; a sentence that if I made a quid for every time I heard it, I’d be sat here; the Ace Face and my tailor would be sipping cocktails in Bemuda. It is however quite true. There is no one event that symbolises the start of Mod. No awakening of the messiah, no parting of the English Channel to Peter Meaden riding a Vespa GS scooter onto Margate sands. There were however a series of events and factors that coming together introduced the UK to something fresh and exciting.

The birth of the first generation Mods or GEN-1 Mods as we’ll refer to them hereafter is a heavily debated subject with many claiming that the earliest Mods emerged in the late Forties. Regardless, what is a fact is that Britain following the Second World War was a bleak place, a once Super-Power nation that became bankrupt by the price of protecting a huge Empire under threat. Here was a generation so deprived and down-beaten by the war years that they craved something new and exciting in their lives.


Mods meet in London’s West End

The many international allied forces stationed in Britain during the war were planting cultural seeds and left a remarkable impression on the younger generations. Though reasonably unaffected by the War, American lifestyle was on the up and their growing jazz and soon rock’n’roll culture became a real focal point in the years that followed the conflict. Exposure to new clothing styles and music from America revolutionised the traditional outlook and sparked an underground youth movement, one which would develop into an obsession.

The Jazz Years:
Music was the backbone, the biggest contributing factor to shake things up. Some growing Jazz musicians of the US were breaking the boundaries of traditional style with an alternative form known as bebop and were creating a whole cultural movement of their own. The GI’s had brought records across with them and told stories of this new after-dark and underground scene. The bands were publicly known for their drug fuelled sessions, they would play this new free-form style all night, looking sharp in their Zoot suits and cravats. The scene differed so greatly from the big band music and traditional jazz style popular in Britain at the time and simply oozed cool.

At this time, 1947, bop was going like mad all over America. The fellows at the Loop blew, but with a tired air, because bop was somewhere between its Charlie Parker Ornithology period and another period that began with Miles Davis. And as I sat there listening to that sound of the light which bop has come to represent for all of us, I thought of all my friends from one end of the country to the other and how they were really all in the same vast backyard doing something so frantic and rushing-about.

(‘On the Road’ – Jack Kerouac, 1957)


Miles Davis and French actress Juliette Greco (1949)
Off of the back of this new wave of music the British scene started to simmer and bands formed emulating their American idols. This saw the popular birth of skiffle, a form of music similar to Bebop in the UK, where often instruments (due to their price) would be home-made. By the mid to late Fifties there were thousands of skiffle bands including The Quarrymen (featuring John Lennon) and the Lonnie Donegan Skiffle Group who even had chart success over in America. Skiffle was the cornerstone for many of the successful bands of the Sixties. Sadly though the most original music was being syphoned rather than exposed in what was still at this time a race-separated industry. The London Decca label had a deal in America for one reason only; to poach songs off of the blacks without crediting the original artist. Mods were true to the origins though and disregarded this racial stigma.

“… black records just weren’t played on the BBC, I can assure you of that. Occasionally you’d hear something on Radio Luxembourg or the pirate radio stations when they started up. Black hits were covered by British white bands. There was never such a thing as English Rock’n’Roll…”

(Drummer Tony Meehan reflects in ‘Stoned‘)

These British bebop (skiffle) outfits needed venues to play and upon the import of the Gaggia espresso machine from Italy, coffee shops and small bars started springing up all over Soho in London’s West End. Places like The French, Sam Widges, The Bastille, Act I/Scene I and perhaps most famously the 2I’s coffee bar became a home from home for the bands (who were mostly under the legal drinking age) and likewise became institutions for the young followers of cool.

Producer Micky Most reflects “… the 2I’s was a trip from about ’56 to ’59…” The club was open all day and you could just get up and have a jam hoping to get noticed. The place breathed music and over its short 10 year existence the likes of Peter Grant (Led Zeppelin manager) could be found as the bouncer, Hank Marvin (The Shadows) could be found serving coffees and sweeping floors and Andrew Loog Oldham (Rolling Stones manager) was a regular. The coffee bar itself was small catering for only 20 people upstairs and not many more downstairs in the basement where the bands would perform. Regardless of size this was THE place to be seen, dressed to the nines, sipping an espresso and mingling with like-minded sorts. A real vibe was born in Soho but it was all becoming so… hipster.

2 I’s Coffee Bar (1959)

It’s important to realise that this was just the beginning and Mods were already two-steps ahead of this scene from the outset. From bebop came Modern Jazz (or otherwise known as ‘hard-bop‘), a refined and seriously cool rhythm and blues variation for the really serious musical ear which as Graham Lentz notes in ‘The Influential Factor’ “…separated the Mods from the bandwagon Hipsters by the mid-Fifties… It is infact from Modern Jazz that the term ‘Modernists’ was born…”

Meet the original GEN-1 Mods, a small number at first who were at the forefront of the emerging scene, they dug the real music that was being masked by the industry and ripped off by the skiffle craze. They sought out with extreme difficulty but built record collections of the real deal; black jazz often put out on Blue Note Records.

Blue Note Records – These were without doubt the coolest sleeves put out in the Fifties and styled a generation.

In 1948 Club Eleven opened its doors at 41 Great Windmill Street, Soho catering specifically to the Modern Jazz crowd. In-fact this was a club that was owned by 10 jazz musicians, out of the need for somewhere to play, in a cooperative with businessman Harry Morris. One of the house bands was actually led by legendary sax player Ronnie Scott. Sadly the club was closed in 1950 when the Drugs Squad raided it. Six of the musicians were charged with possession of cannabis. Ronnie Scott recalled that when they appeared the next day at Marlborough St. Magistrates Court, ‘a police Chief Inspector informed the bench that the Club was a bebop club. ‘What,’ asked the magistrate solemnly, ‘is bebop?’ ‘A queer form of modern dancing – a Negro jive’ the policeman answered with brisk authority.’


Thelonious Monk at the Piano

In 1959 Ronnie Scott opened his own club (Ronnie Scott’s, still going strong today) with Pete King, another successful jazz musician. At Ronnie’s they managed to get around strong union rulings and have American artists perform who up until that time were not allowed to play in England. To get a drinks license the venue had to serve food, a minor detail once a relationship was made with an Indian restaurant across the road. Pete King recalls that the club originally opened so that Ronnie and he could study their bebop heroes and learn how to adapt their own playing into this new style. What they had created however was a venue of cult status with young Mods at the time. So slick was the club that Andrew Loog Oldham (working at the time for Mary Quant) took an evening job to wait tables just to get deep inside the scene.


Andrew Loog Oldham (Early Face and yet to become Rolling Stone Manager)

Remember this was just the beginning of the Modernist movement, the roots. Jazz paved the way with its style, though music was ever evolving and soon true R&B opened a much larger door.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

Who outside of the Caribbeans actually gives a fukk about reggae?

BIG's influence pales in comparison to Tupac's influence and I respect Usain Bolt but people only give a fukk about his sport once every 4 years

African Americans the most influential people by far, sorry! We're your favorite black people's favorite black people.

What!?

 

[Luken]

What!?

Madness.

 

[AB Ziggy]

I mean OP is kind of right. Jamaican culture has penetrated though many different countries including the US, UK, Canada, and even Africa. All with a population of 4 million or so people.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

because some people can't/refuse to grasp the simple concept that afram cultural influence is 10x bigger than what jamaicans export/exported around the world. So the afram per capita influence is undeniably bigger when you factor in diversity of influence, range of influence and how much older these influences are considering Jamaica had no real global impact prior to the 1960's.

a real simple way to look at this is add or remove aframs/jamaicans historically and see what changes on a global scale

remove aframs =

-no rock, dominate pop music of whites
-no jazz, the first true global takeover music that influenced everything from music to fashion to civil rights-global politics
-no british pop music as we know it
-no british invasion
-no jamaican pop music as we know it, which only came into vogue since the 1960s
- no modern EDM music/dance/modern club music and culture


remove jamaican=

-still have rock, dominant white pop music
-still have british pop music
-still have british invasion
-still have afram pop music as we know it, the most dominant global musical revolution since the mid to late 19th century
-still have edm music/dance/modern club music and culture


........let's not even get into civil rights, humanitarianism, the arts outside of music and sports

I didn't even mention the Afram influence on k-pop....motown is it's father and it's kids, modern R&B and hiphop are adding the newer flavors

The stylistic elements of k-pop also go way back. Far closer to the current spirit of idol pop than doo-wop, The Beatles, Elvis or any of the imitators they spawned was the American Motown record label. Formed in 1959, Motown were the first record label with overt “factory” aspirations and a mission statement to transform their working-class black performers into “royalty” – people that you would (hopefully) find charming and relateable and fetishise and drool over and plaster your bedroom walls with posters of, regardless of class or racial barriers. Motown specifically groomed, charm-schooled and choreographed their younger artists for maximum public appeal and success just like k-pop agencies do now and to this end they were the spiritual precursor to the k-pop labels of today. Motown had teams of in-house songwriters cranking out the hits and even had their own SM Town-style packaged concerts. Their strategies worked, with their first big payoff coming with mega-hit girl group The Supremes.

Many of the key elements that we love about today’s Korean idol groups were present in a more basic form in The Supremes. In “Stop In The Name Of Love” we can see synchronised choreography, sexy (for the time) fashions and styling, and even the first ever “girl idol hand-dance”.




This iconic hand gesture as well as the general look and feel of The Supremes was given the high-glitz modern k-pop makeover in Wonder Girls’ “Nobody

The differences between K-pop and western pop for those too lazy to write their own school essays


K-pop and 1960’s Americana: More alike than you think

K-pop and 1960’s Americana: More alike than you think

29/08/2013
The way that western pop culture has influenced the world is indisputable, and nowhere more apparent than in popular music. K-pop’s roots are usually traced back to the iconic Seo Taiji & The Boys, who introduced a world of hip-hop, pop, and dance music not previously felt as strongly in South Korea. That was the early 90’s, and it’s obvious K-pop has been taking hints from western pop, R&B, and hip-hop music ever since.

If you introduce an unsuspecting citizen to the wonders of K-pop, chances are they will come to the same conclusion. Most popularly, the flashy boy and girl groups, synchronized choreography, and upbeat tunes will draw comparisons to the wave of late 90’s and early 2000’s groups and artists prevalent in the US. I’ve often heard this sometimes “dated” view of K-pop held up as a reason that some love it, and others could do without it.

However, if you know a thing or two about the history of pop music, you know that boybands and girl groups didn’t start with N*Sync and BSB, or even NKOTB and TLC. If you really want to take it back to the source of everything you see today in music, you have get familiar with names like The Osmonds, The Jackson 5, The Chordettes, and The Supremes.

I would go far as to say that K-pop, where it is at in 2013, has more in common with the early 1960’s of western pop music than it does with the 1990’s, or 2010’s.

K-pop and 1960’s Americana: More alike than you think - Beyond Hallyu


How K-pop became a global phenomenon

K-pop began in 1992 with one electric hip-hop performance
K-pop as we know it wouldn’t exist without democracy and television — specifically, South Korea’s reformation of its democratic government in 1987, with its accompanying modernization and lightening of censorship, and the effect this change had on television.

Prior to the establishment of the nation’s Sixth Republic, there were only two broadcast networks in the country, and they largely controlled what music South Koreans listened to; singers and musicians weren’t much more than tools of the networks. Networks introduced the public to musical stars primarily through weekend music talent shows. Radio existed but, like the TV networks, was under tight state control. Independent music production didn’t really exist, and rock music was controversial and subject to banning; musicians and songs were primarily introduced to the public through the medium of the televised talent show, and radio served as little more than a subsidiary platform for entertainers who succeeded on those weekend TV competitions.

Before the liberalization of South Korean media in the late ‘80s, the music produced by broadcast networks was exclusively either slow ballads or “trot,” a Lawrence Welk-ish fusion of traditional music with old pop standards. After 1987, though, the country’s radio broadcasting expanded rapidly, and South Koreans became familiar with more varieties of music from outside the country, including contemporary American music.

But TV was still the country’s dominant, centralized form of media: As of 1992, national TV networks had penetrated above 99 percent of South Korean homes, and viewership was highest on the weekends, when the talent shows took place. These televised talent shows were crucial in introducing music groups to South Korean audiences; they still have an enormous cultural impact and remain the single biggest factor in a South Korean band’s success.

As Moonrok editor Hannah Waitt points out in her excellent series on the history of K-pop, K-pop is unusual as a genre because it has a definitive start date, thanks to a band called Seo Taiji and Boys. Seo Taiji had previously been a member of the South Korean heavy metal band Sinawe, which was itself a brief but hugely influential part of the development of Korean rock music in the late ‘80s. After the band broke up, he turned to hip-hop and recruited two stellar South Korean dancers, Yang Hyun-suk and Lee Juno, to join him as backups in a group dubbed Seo Taiji and Boys. On April 11, 1992, they performed their single “Nan Arayo (I Know)” on a talent show:

Not only did the Boys not win the talent show, but the judges gave the band the lowest score of the evening. But immediately after the song debuted, “I Know” went on to top South Korea’s singles charts for a record-smashing 17 weeks, which would stand for more than 15 years as the longest No. 1 streak in the country’s history.

“I Know” represented the first time modern American-style pop music had been fused with South Korean culture. Seo Taiji and Boys were innovators who challenged norms around musical styles, song topics, fashion, and censorship. They sang about teen angst and the social pressure to succeed within a grueling education system, and insisted on creating their own music and writing their own songs outside of the manufactured network environment.

Don’t ask what makes a K-pop song. Ask what makes a K-pop performer.
There are three things that make K-pop such a visible and unique contributor to the realm of pop music: exceptionally high-quality performance (especially dancing), an extremely polished aesthetic, and an “in-house” method of studio production that churns out musical hits the way assembly lines churn out cars.

Hip-hop tends to be a dominant part of the K-pop sound, particularly among male groups, a trend that has opened up the genre to criticism for appropriation. South Korea grapples with a high degree of cultural racism, and recent popular groups have come under fire for donning blackface, appropriating Native American iconography, and much more. Still, K-pop has increasingly embraced diversity in recent years, with black members joining K-pop groups and duo Coco Avenue putting out a bilingual single in 2017.

Last but not least, I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention South Korea’s emergent indie music scene, which includes a thriving crop of independent rap, hip-hop, and, increasingly, R&B artists, as well as a host of grassroots artists who’ve made waves on SoundCloud.

How K-pop became a global phenomenon