Captain America: Civil War (Official Thread)

[Tasha And]

@gluvnast doesn't understand the difference between Cap knowing that Bucky killed Tony's parents, and Cap knowing there existed footage of this. Cap might not have known that a tape existed but he had known since The Winter Soldier that Hydra was behind the death of Tony's parents. After Cap and Falcon get a hold of Bucky, Cap asks him what Zemo wanted to know, which were the details of his mission killing Tony's parents. If you can't fill in the gaps from there (Bucky tells Cap and thus Cap knows), then sorry breh, you might wanna stick to watching Christopher Nolan movies were every plot detail is being explained to you in a five minute speech.

Yup. Even before Steve asked about the mission, when he found out about Hydra's involvement in Howard Stark's death, Bucky was literally shown on the screen as a top assassin a second before the "accidents happen" part showed Howard's dead body. That fits amazingly with Steve's reaction when he was asked by Tony if he knew. He first says he didn't know it was Buck, because he only knew it was implied by Zola that it was Buck, but when pressed by Tony, he had to come clean and stop hiding behind the fact that it was implied. He knew from the point of that video that his friend was the one that completted the hit, and from that point on he hid his knowledge from Tony. Steve would have gotten official confirmation once he and Sam asked Bucky about the mission from that night. It's pretty cool how strong it all matches up. Impressive long term storytelling that doesn't hold your hand.



0:25

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

If he knew about Bucky's op to get the super soldier serum, then he obviously knew who killed Stark's parents.

How did he know Stark had the serum? Up until this point everyone thought it was an accident right?

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

Yup. Even before Steve asked about the mission, when he found out about Hydra's involvement in Howard Stark's death, Bucky was literally shown on the screen as a top assassin a second before the "accidents happen" part showed Howard's dead body. That fits amazingly with Steve's reaction when he was asked by Tony if he knew. He first says he didn't know it was Buck, because he only knew it was implied by Zola that it was Buck, but when pressed by Tony, he had to come clean and stop hiding behind the fact that it was implied. He knew from the point of that video that his friend was the one that completted the hit, and from that point on he hid his knowledge from Tony. Steve would have gotten official confirmation once he and Sam asked Bucky about the mission from that night. It's pretty cool how strong it all matches up. Impressive long term storytelling that doesn't hold your hand.



0:25

Ok yeah it makes sense now. Still think that arc was a bit jumbled though.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

@gluvnast doesn't understand the difference between Cap knowing that Bucky killed Tony's parents, and Cap knowing there existed footage of this. Cap might not have known that a tape existed but he had known since The Winter Soldier that Hydra was behind the death of Tony's parents. After Cap and Falcon get a hold of Bucky, Cap asks him what Zemo wanted to know, which were the details of his mission killing Tony's parents. If you can't fill in the gaps from there (Bucky tells Cap and thus Cap knows), then sorry breh, you might wanna stick to watching Christopher Nolan movies were every plot detail is being explained to you in a five minute speech.

Are you implying that Nolan movies are less complicated than Marvel movies?

 

[42 Monks]

Ok but why

She was clearly on the side of Tony. TWS tried to kill her multiple times. We just gonna chalk it up to "It's Natasha being Natasha"?

She had a whole movie road tripping with Cap. She disagreed on his stance regarding the accord but at every available point in the movie she showed that the cared about Cap. She was only down for the accord because it was for his best interest. The whole cap/ironman thing was never black and white. Hell, if Tony didn't lock Wanda in his mansion with Vision as a bodyguard, maybe her, Vision, and Hawkman all end up on a different side.

shyt, Cap ALMOST signed the shyt too

 

[gluvnast]

I do think the plot would've been more interesting if the Stark/Bucky reveal happened in Act 1 so the rest of the movie is Tony and Cap fighting over it, but that's besides the point.

You say the Avengers were already divided, but there's a difference between being divided and being torn apart. The disagreement over the Sokovia Accords wasn't enough to break them up, it had to become personal and that's what Zemo achieved.

And Zemo didn't get the tape until he got to the base, at which point he was already drawing in Steve and Bucky. Yeah, some of the shyt that follows is plot convenience but there's nothing in the movie that suggests he wouldn't have sent the tape to Stark regardless. What do you think, that Zemo was just gonna chill in that bunker until someone finally decides to show up? You gotta think further than that.

But they still wasn't even TORN APART....even after the AIRPORT fight and the plot hole of how EXACTLY team Capt for arrested (but whatever)... team Capt was still a bit salty, but Falcon still gave Stark the location and for the most part there was a reconciliation.... and the voicemail by Rogers apologizing and Stark blowing Ross off surely meant that it wasn't completely torn apart.... I would of RATHER it did after all of that. Pretty much by the end of the film it is EXACTLY where it was in the beginning... Team Capt with his people except them now fugitives which matters little. The whole story ended up being pointless.... unless you want to say that Bucky is frozen again.

 

[Tasha And]

Are you implying that Nolan movies are less complicated than Marvel movies?

No he is arguing that Nolan's movies have long monologues that explain motivations, themes, and plot points. It's a well established criticism. Even Honest Trailers made fun of him for it. It's not necessarily a bad thing but it is a Nolan trademark at this point.


1:25

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

Zemo would of have control just like he was able to brainwash Winter Soldier again. Also, again.... it is stupid to so-called kill yourself after an assumption of dividing the Avengers when the Avengers were already divided by the Registration Act. Which again he should of JUST sent the tape at the beginning to Stark.... it made the stakes for the entire film more impactful. The fact that he somehow KNEW that Stark will show up in Siberia is terrible writing because there's no rhyme or reason for it...or anything else regarding this film.

If anything, it should of been about Zemo sending the tape to Stark.... Zemo then brainwashing Winter Soldier...and THEN the Civil War to include the airport scene making everything at stake FOR REAL rather than the last ten minutes of the movie wasting our time the whole other 2hrs of the film of mostly filler scenes.

Zemo shouldn't have been in this imo. There would've been much better ways to create a conflict.

CB readers... is this how it went in the story?

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

The best parts of this movie were the new Avengers (Ant-Man, Spider-Man, and Panther).

Scott: Hank Pym was right - you can never trust a Stark.

Tony: Who are you?

Completely agree. The conflict between Tony and Cap didn't really pull me in till the last fight

 

[TheGodling]

Are you implying that Nolan movies are less complicated than Marvel movies?

You sure you want to go into that debate?

But seriously, you never have to think or connect any dots in his movies because he over-explains everything going on. They're only complicated because Nolan tries to make it sound all complicated when he even exaggerates the simplest motivations into a long-winded dialog.

But they still wasn't even TORN APART....even after the AIRPORT fight and the plot hole of how EXACTLY team Capt for arrested (but whatever)... team Capt was still a bit salty, but Falcon still gave Stark the location and for the most part there was a reconciliation.... and the voicemail by Rogers apologizing and Stark blowing Ross off surely meant that it wasn't completely torn apart.... I would of RATHER it did after all of that. Pretty much by the end of the film it is EXACTLY where it was in the beginning... Team Capt with his people except them now fugitives which matters little. The whole story ended up being pointless.... unless you want to say that Bucky is frozen again.

You're nitpicking about what you want to happen but that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with how it went down in the movie. Nah, it's not perfect but it's all there.

 

[gluvnast]

Yup. Even before Steve asked about the mission, when he found out about Hydra's involvement in Howard Stark's death, Bucky was literally shown on the screen as a top assassin a second before the "accidents happen" part showed Howard's dead body. That fits amazingly with Steve's reaction when he was asked by Tony if he knew. He first says he didn't know it was Buck, because he only knew it was implied by Zola that it was Buck, but when pressed by Tony, he had to come clean and stop hiding behind the fact that it was implied. He knew from the point of that video that his friend was the one that completted the hit, and from that point on he hid his knowledge from Tony. Steve would have gotten official confirmation once he and Sam asked Bucky about the mission from that night. It's pretty cool how strong it all matches up. Impressive long term storytelling that doesn't hold your hand.



0:25

Okay.. I give props to that... That said, my point (I say again..) it is uncharacteristic of him NOT telling Stark. And it should of been something that should of been set up for THIS film instead of a hidden Easter Egg from previous films. If I didn't recall something that seemed significantly minor... I know plenty of others would of overlooked it as well. It goes back to how poorly THIS film was written. The fact I keep saying as to how Zemo even expected Stark to show up in Siberia to begin with as well as it being uncharacteristic for Rogers not hold this as a secret all this time. That's not how he was developed from previous films. Even at the END of Winter Soldier... the whole point of exposing SHIELD and Hydra was to no longer hold on to secrecy.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

She had a whole movie road tripping with Cap. She disagreed on his stance regarding the accord but at every available point in the movie she showed that the cared about Cap. She was only down for the accord because it was for his best interest. The whole cap/ironman thing was never black and white. Hell, if Tony didn't lock Wanda in his mansion with Vision as a bodyguard, maybe her, Vision, and Hawkman all end up on a different side.

shyt, Cap ALMOST signed the shyt too

Ok but I don't really feel that really makes sense bruh but whatever. If it worked for you. I thought it was stupid. And that line she gave to BP

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

But they still wasn't even TORN APART....even after the AIRPORT fight and the plot hole of how EXACTLY team Capt for arrested (but whatever)... team Capt was still a bit salty, but Falcon still gave Stark the location and for the most part there was a reconciliation.... and the voicemail by Rogers apologizing and Stark blowing Ross off surely meant that it wasn't completely torn apart.... I would of RATHER it did after all of that. Pretty much by the end of the film it is EXACTLY where it was in the beginning... Team Capt with his people except them now fugitives which matters little. The whole story ended up being pointless.... unless you want to say that Bucky is frozen again.

Yeah like they all just show up in jail and me and Moms turn to each other like WTF

 

[42 Monks]

Zemo shouldn't have been in this imo. There would've been much better ways to create a conflict.

CB readers... is this how it went in the story?

No.

But they still wasn't even TORN APART....even after the AIRPORT fight and the plot hole of how EXACTLY team Capt for arrested (but whatever)... team Capt was still a bit salty, but Falcon still gave Stark the location and for the most part there was a reconciliation.... and the voicemail by Rogers apologizing and Stark blowing Ross off surely meant that it wasn't completely torn apart.... I would of RATHER it did after all of that. Pretty much by the end of the film it is EXACTLY where it was in the beginning... Team Capt with his people except them now fugitives which matters little. The whole story ended up being pointless.... unless you want to say that Bucky is frozen again.

cmon man, he gave iron man that info because he thought cap was outgunned, because he felt half responsible for war machine getting rekt, and because tony came correct by confirming that cap was right about zemo's move to activate the other super soldiers.

stark was blowing off dude regardless, the only reason he was on the side of signing the accord was to appease the world. he was always about moving the line back AFTER signing - so of course he gave two shyts about Ross? Especially considering how he had his girl Wanda wrapped up just like she was before Avengers 2.

Cap is gonna Cap. Dude offered the olive branch with that voice mail - that's all. shyt's still fukked. Tony is the reason half of them were in jail lol

Okay.. I give props to that... That said, my point (I say again..) it is uncharacteristic of him NOT telling Stark. And it should of been something that should of been set up for THIS film instead of a hidden Easter Egg from previous films. If I didn't recall something that seemed significantly minor... I know plenty of others would of overlooked it as well. It goes back to how poorly THIS film was written. The fact I keep saying as to how Zemo even expected Stark to show up in Siberia to begin with as well as it being uncharacteristic for Rogers not hold this as a secret all this time. That's not how he was developed from previous films. Even at the END of Winter Soldier... the whole point of exposing SHIELD and Hydra was to no longer hold on to secrecy.

He literally explains how he fukked up by not telling Tony in the movie Dude says flat out that he thought he was doing Tony a favor - and with Caps misguided sense of always knowing what's best, its perfectly within his character

 

[42 Monks]

Ok but I don't really feel that really makes sense bruh but whatever. If it worked for you. I thought it was stupid. And that line she gave to BP

??

No one in the movie knew BP outside of this film - where he's on a mission to kill Cap's best friend from the jump, same dude that he spent half of the last movie trying to keep alive - so why would it make sense for BW to just step aside for a guy she just met?