Can any Christian / Jew explain this?

[JoelB]

exodus only takes place if a pharaoh arises that doesnt know Joseph/Jacob

when you say holy of holies, are you willing to go into the wilderness, be sustained by manna, and suffer thirst unimaginable to begin understanding whta they are actually talking about?

I'm looking for a yes or no response. Were other nations allowed to enter the holy of holies?

 

[MMS]

Fair enough.

its important to understand that the narrative in the bible is from the perspective of the sons of israel retelling the context of their existence

whereas from the egyptian perspective they are of the mindset that they are the creators of the israelites. Its very complicated but you have to consider Amun

who gives "life" to the Gods. The magicians believed that THE God was just a silent entity not involved with peoples lives.

 

[MMS]

I'm looking for a yes or no response. Were other nations allowed to enter the holy of holies?

I think you're going off on a tangent for an argument that you no longer understand youre making.

Assyrians went into the temple and took all the Gold and put them in captivity and so did Babylon/persia

believe God needed a temple to your detriment.

As I said to @Marks there are none who can deliver out of the hand of the King of Assyria. Because surprise! It was them who decided what was preserved after they released the Israelites from captivity...

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Kings 18 - King James Version

Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of...

www.biblegateway.com

you need to study more instead of relying on what you currently know.

 

[MMS]

Yahweh made a promise to the Hebrews -> Israelites as their benefactor deity. Not to all peoples on Earth.

This is akin to Muslims stating that Allah is a universal deity, but Arabic is ostensibly a sacred language and Allah’s revelation via Jibril (Gabriel) was reserved for Muhammad alone.

to begin to understand whats happening i also recommend that you read Genesis 31 that I posted for @JoelB

Laban said "all of these daughters are mine"

its a reference to the white space that you write over with ink...there are spiritual things at play that are not easy to discern.

 

[JoelB]

2 Kings 18:11-12

​

11 And the king of Assyria did carry away Israel unto Assyria, and put them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes:
12 Because they obeyed not the voice of the Lord their God, but transgressed his covenant, and all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded, and would not hear them, nor do them.


No argument or tangent here @MMS . The chapter you're referring me to proves the original point. Who was the covenant made with...what happens when you abide by it, and what happens when you depart from it. This theme gets repeated throughout the books.


But we can end the dialogue there

 

[Koichos]

It is only necessary to negate something that is possible, not something that is impossible. Thus, when G‑d said “My face may not be seen,” He meant that the workings of Divine providence can be perceived, but not directly.

To explain: There are two ways of grasping a concept: by understanding what it is and by understanding what it is not. If a concept is within our sphere of experience, we can understand what it is. If a concept is outside our sphere of experience, we cannot understand what it is, but we can understand what it is not. We mentally remove it from possibility after possibility until, by process of elimination, we gain a glimpse of it.

Thus, G‑d’s statement, “My face may not be seen,” means that we cannot understand Divine providence directly, but we can understand it by negating what we know it not to be.

Right. And פנים אל פנים has nothing whatever to do with 'seeing' the Deity's 'face'; rather, it is a description of the type of conversation Mōshêh had with Him (not of what he saw), because God Himself said that He would only ever address the prophets (apart from Mōshêh, who, admittedly, was unique) through visions and dreams.

The meaning it conveys is that God speaks to Mōshêh plainly, openly, without the need for interpretation (as in a vision or dream), as he was the ONLY prophet to receive prophecies from God while conscious (see B'mîdbar 12:6-7). That is what is meant by פנים אל פנים; all the other prophets were either asleep or in a catatonic state.

 

[MMS]

2 Kings 18:11-12​

​

​

11 And the king of Assyria did carry away Israel unto Assyria, and put them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes:
12 Because they obeyed not the voice of the Lord their God, but transgressed his covenant, and all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded, and would not hear them, nor do them.


No argument or tangent here @MMS . The chapter you're referring me to proves the original point. Who was the covenant made with...what happens when you abide by it, and what happens when you depart from it. This theme gets repeated throughout the books.


But we can end the dialogue there

do you believe there should be a third temple? do you believe God ever told Israel to fashion a temple?

the command of Moses was "An altar of hewn earth shalt you make unto me"

its because of the covenant between God and NOAH. Not Abraham.

The need for a temple is a canaanite holdover (specifically JEBUSITES)

Genesis 8:20-21

20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

I personally think an ox cart is quite nice by comparison

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/how-islam-got-jesus-completely-wrong.895708/page-46#post-49691461

 

[JoelB]

do you believe there should be a third temple? do you believe God ever told Israel to fashion a temple?

the command of Moses was "An altar of hewn earth shalt you make unto me"

its because of the covenant between God and NOAH. Not Abraham.

The need for a temple is a canaanite holdover (specifically JEBUSITES)

I personally think an ox cart is quite nice by comparison

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/how-islam-got-jesus-completely-wrong.895708/page-46#post-49691461

1st Samuel allows the reader to see TMH original intention for Israel. They wanted to follow the ways of the other nations , so he let them have it . They were a stiff-necked people, were they not

1 Samuel 8:6-10
​

6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” So Samuel prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them. 8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt, even to this day—with which they have forsaken Me and served other gods—so they are doing to you also. 9 Now therefore, heed their voice. However, you shall solemnly forewarn them, and show them the behavior of the king who will reign over them.”
10 So Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who asked him for a king.

 

[timeless]

@MMS yeah I am but it's all good. Loving the debate yall are having!

 

[JoelB]

@MMS above is the biblical response to your question.

In short, No, a 3rd temple isnt needed. The need for manly priest sacrificing unto the LORD is over with.

 

[MMS]

@MMS above is the biblical response to your question.

In short, No, a 3rd temple isnt needed. The need for manly priest sacrificing unto the LORD is over with.

I wouldn't completely agree with that, otherwise, you would have no kosher meat.

So it's not that sacrificing to the LORD is over with but vainly sacrificing to him for the purpose of divination should be over with (see divers laws)

as the whole purpose of sacrifice was to feed man who was starving and could not fully do the command in Genesis 1 (i have given you every green herb for meat)

even kosher meat is an extrapolation of animals that only eat green things so it is taken to be clean meat.

now that I've revealed somethings to you...how counterintuitively can you think now?

Deuteronomy 22:9-11

9 Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled.

10 Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.

11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

divers are in reference to "diviners"

 

[MMS]

@MMS yeah I am but it's all good. Loving the debate yall are having!

no doubt, I think many christians only have surface understandings of the Old testament let alone the gospels. And judging by many responses dwell more in epistles/revelation than on Christs words in the Gospels which he himself said:

John 3:9-15

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[JoelB]

I wouldn't completely agree with that, otherwise, you would have no kosher meat.

So it's not that sacrificing to the LORD is over with but vainly sacrificing to him for the purpose of divination should be over with (see divers laws)

as the whole purpose of sacrifice was to feed man who was starving and could not fully do the command in Genesis 1 (i have given you every green herb for meat)

even kosher meat is an extrapolation of animals that only eat green things so it is taken to be clean meat.

now that I've revealed somethings to you...how counterintuitively can you think now?

Deuteronomy 22:9-11



divers are in reference to "diviners"

Im glad you brought this up. Im not saying the law is done away. Im specifically talking about the atonement of sin...otherwise, what was the purpose of the death and resurrection of the Messiah?

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed".

I told you what I thought about this text...you havent given me yours. I'm in no need of a 2nd redeemer.

Also

Rev 14:12 "Here is the patients of saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD & Faith in Jesus".

This is my response to typical christians that are anti Old Testament.

can you rephrase what you meant by "definers" not sure im following u.

 

[JoelB]

Also it seems I derailed the original premise of the thread. My bad @The Realist Perspective

 

[MMS]

Im glad you brought this up. Im not saying the law is done away. Im specifically talking about the atonement of sin...otherwise, what was the purpose of the death and resurrection of the Messiah?

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed".

I told you what I thought about this text...you havent given me yours. I'm in no need of a 2nd redeemer.

Also

Rev 14:12 "Here is the patients of saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD & Faith in Jesus".

This is my response to typical christians that are anti Old Testament.

can you rephrase what you meant by "definers" not sure im following u.

i said "diviners" not definers.

Divination - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Isaiah 44:20-25

20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?

21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;