Can any Christian / Jew explain this?

[JoelB]

christianity as you know it is herods attempt to destroy the works of your mouth.

this is why Jesus said to Peter, after he said to him "Thou art Christ, the son of the Living God", that on this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

If you understood what I understood you would know why things are the way they are. Its because you are in the womans world and the woman is not like men. And God's covenant were with men who knew Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph...because otherwise you will be in Esaus herd unknowingly and be sacrificed as you have sacrificed.

Isnt that the point of open discussion? How am I going to understand what you understand if questions and answers arent exchanged openly. I've asked you several questions which never got a direct response. Instead you responded with questions.

Some of your responses seem intentionally crafted to be ambiguous...but then you seem to get offended when I press.

Like I said brehda...no harm no foul. we can leave it here...

 

[MMS]

Isnt that the point of open discussion? How am I going to understand what you understand if questions and answers arent exchanged openly. I've asked you several questions which never got a direct response. Instead you responded with questions.

Some of your responses seem intentionally crafted to be ambiguous...but then you seem to get offended when I press.

Like I said brehda...no harm no foul. we can leave it here...

sure but I've told you already the epistles arent divine and are letters from paul to churches

you say my responses are ambigious i say they are crystal clear. How long do you read and dwell on what I've said to you?

Why do you think pagans/gentiles struggle with the idea of sacrifice?

Remember they would put up a heifer and a bull (one representing Hera, and the other Zeus) and would say "our sins be on the animals" sacrifice them. And not eat any of the meat.

Remember, sacrifice is escapism at its core. When Abel offered up an offering to God of the firstlings of his flock and the fat thereof. As I've said to others this could be interpreted as semen.

Because in the ancient way, women were considered "like God"...so Cains offering of earth represents the works of your hands. Even now people think the works of their hands will satisfy women when they do not.

If God required sacrifice he would have ordained it from the beginning.

 

[JoelB]

sure but I've told you already the epistles arent divine and are letters from paul to churches

you say my responses are ambigious i say they are crystal clear. How long do you read and dwell on what I've said to you?

Why do you think pagans/gentiles struggle with the idea of sacrifice?

Remember they would put up a heifer and a bull (one representing Hera, and the other Zeus) and would say "our sins be on the animals" sacrifice them. And not eat any of the meat.

Remember, sacrifice is escapism at its core. When Abel offered up an offering to God of the firstlings of his flock and the fat thereof. As I've said to others this could be interpreted as semen.

Because in the ancient way, women were considered "like God"...so Cains offering of earth represents the works of your hands. Even now people think the works of their hands will satisfy women when they do not.

If God required sacrifice he would have ordained it from the beginning.

Yes, you said the epistles arent divine. You also said not to throw away the whole book (im paraphrasing, I believe thats what you said. correct me if im wrong)

So when I press further and ask what you actually believe and how it can be supported, the responses become less clear.

Take for example this message im replying to you.

1. You say: "If GOD required sacrifice he would have ordained it from the beginning".
My response would be: Genesis 4:4 Abel brings the firstling of his flock "and the LORD had respect to Abel and his offering". Are you saying he respected Abel & his animal offering but didnt require it?

2. I would also bring up Abram offering 10% to Melchezidek who coincidently brought BREAD and WINE and blessed Abram. We see a foreshadowing of not only the Mosaic law, but Christ himself being called the BREAD OF LIFE that he is sharing with us.

In no way shape or form am I saying salvation is dependent on sacrificing animals. Im saying Christ on the cross is that ultimate sacrifice as prophesied in Isaiah. This is also why Caiphas prophesied "you do not know it is better for this man to die than the whole nation perish". Caiphas clearly understood what was happening in real time.




At this point in the convo your usual reply is "My god lives and walks " and then the topic shifts to something else lol.


I asked if the living god you serve will come back physically on earth you say

"my god lives and walks"

I ask did christ die for the sins of Israel. you say

"my god lives and walk. King Herod tricked you"

then wonder why I say the message is vague.

 

[JoelB]

Also I believe every biblical text you brought up, I addressed head on. I will admit, I have not read all of the wiki links tho.

 

[MMS]

Yes, you said the epistles arent divine. You also said not to throw away the whole book (im paraphrasing, I believe thats what you said. correct me if im wrong)

So when I press further and ask what you actually believe and how it can be supported, the responses become less clear.

Take for example this message im replying to you.

1. You say: "If GOD required sacrifice he would have ordained it from the beginning".
My response would be: Genesis 4:4 Abel brings the firstling of his flock "and the LORD had respect to Abel and his offering". Are you saying he respected Abel & his animal offering but didnt require it?

2. I would also bring up Abram offering 10% to Melchezidek who coincidently brought BREAD and WINE and blessed Abram. We see a foreshadowing of not only the Mosaic law, but Christ himself being called the BREAD OF LIFE that he is sharing with us.

In no way shape or form am I saying salvation is dependent on sacrificing animals. Im saying Christ on the cross is that ultimate sacrifice as prophesied in Isaiah. This is also why Caiphas prophesied "you do not know it is better for this man to die than the whole nation perish". Caiphas clearly understood what was happening in real time.




At this point in the convo your usual reply is "My god lives and walks " and then the topic shifts to something else lol.


I asked if the living god you serve will come back physically on earth you say

"my god lives and walks"

I ask did christ die for the sins of Israel. you say

"my god lives and walk"

then wonder why I say the message is vague.

1. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden during the time that Cain and Abel were born. I have alluded to my interpretation in a prior post. This also explains why Lamech says if Cain be avenged sevenfold, surely Lamech seventy and seven.
2. Abram offering 10% and the bread and wine is actually an allegory to Pharoahs butler and baker who represented his wine and bread whose dreams were interpreted by Joseph. Melchizedek AND Abram slaughtered the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah and is one of the earliest recurring Judges of man not actually found in the book of Judges

I will explain something potentially obscure to you that you may not have caught the first time through reading the gospels..

Acts 9:1-16

1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

now read here

Mark 5:1-15

1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.

2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:

4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.

5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.

6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.

11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.

12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.

14 And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.

15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

now finally, the blessing of Jacob is that he struggled with the Angel of the LORD and prevailed. and infamously this is what transpired

Genesis 32:24-31

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.

"My Name" is the Angel of the LORD. And also who Jesus was pitted against by Paul. Even Moses knows "My Name"

Exodus 20:24

24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

 

[MMS]

for more context @JoelB they chose "Ananias" for a reason

remember how I said Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt?

Elephantine papyri and ostraca - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Marriage document[edit]​

Marriage Document of Ananiah and Tamut, July 3, 449 BCE, Brooklyn Museum
Ancient marriage documents generally formalized already existing relationships. In this case, Ananiah and Tamut already had a young son when the document was drawn up. Because Tamut was a slave when she married Ananiah, the contract has special conditions: usually, it was the groom and his father-in-law who made Jewish marriage agreements, but Ananiah made this contract with Tamut's master, Meshullam, who legally was her father. In addition, special provision was made to free the couple's son, also a slave to Meshullam; perhaps Ananiah consented to the small dowry of either 7 or 15 shekels (the text is ambiguous) in order to obtain his son's freedom. Future children, however, would still be born slaves. In contrast to Jewish documents like this one, contemporaneous Egyptian marriage documents were negotiated between a husband and wife.[31]

So Ananiah(protected by YHWH) and Tamut (death) had a son and a daughter (Yehoishema or "The Word of YHWH")

 

[God Of Art]

Welp

Edit. I'm choosing to say we'll cause I'm not arguing with yall anymore. Dude said I believe in Vodou..never once did I say I believe in Vodou. I respect the deities as it is images of black gods and goddesses. And I was wrong according to that particular argument about Vodou being the oldest religion.

I believe nothing comes from nothing..I believe in a creator....yes...that's it. It doesn't govern or care about our lives as it is not an entity.

 

[MMS]

@JoelB one last thing regarding Pharaohs Butler and Baker

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 40 - King James Version

And it came to pass after these things, that the butler of the king of Egypt and his baker had offended their lord the king of Egypt. And Pharaoh was wroth against two of his officers, against the chief of the butlers, and against the chief of the bakers. And he put them in ward in the house of...

www.biblegateway.com

is that in Egypt Pharoah was considered the one who devoured peoples magic. So drinking the wine and eating the bread is an allegory to this. This is also why he charged Joseph to give him 20% of his earnings when he went throughout the land threshing grain.

ANCIENT EGYPT : The Cannibal Hymn in the tomb of Pharaoh Unis

The Cannibal Hymn - Pyramid Texts - Spell 273-274 - the overpowering cannibalistic god and image of images - a few philosophical remarks

www.sofiatopia.org

Utterance 274

It is Pharaoh who eats their magic and gulps down their Akhs.
Their big ones are for his morning meal,
their middle-sized ones are for his evening meal,
their little ones are for his night meal,
their old men and their old women are for his incense-burning.
It is the Great Ones in the North of the sky (7) who light the fire for him
to the cauldrons containing them,
with the thighs of their eldest (as fuel).

Those who are in the sky serve Pharaoh,
And the butcher's blocks are wiped over for him,
with the feet of their women.

He has revolved around the whole of the two skies.
He has circled the two banks (8).
For Pharaoh is the great power that overpowers the powers.
Pharaoh is a sacred image, the most sacred image
of the sacred images of the Great One.
Whom he finds in his way, him he devours bit by bit (9).

Pharaoh's place is at the head of all the noble ones (10) who are in the horizon.
For Pharaoh is a god, older than the oldest.
Thousands revolve around him, hundreds offer to him.
There is given to him a warrant as a great power by Orion (11),
the father of the gods.

Pharaoh has risen again in the sky.
He is crowned as Lord of the Horizon.
He has smashed the back-bones,
and has seized the hearts of the gods.
He has eaten the Red Crown (12).
He has swallowed the Green One (13).
Pharaoh feeds on the lungs of the wise.
And likes to live on hearts and their magic.

Pharaoh abhors against licking the coils of the Red Crown.
But delights to have their magic in his belly.
Pharaoh's dignities will not be taken away from him.
For he has swallowed the knowledge of every god.
Pharaoh's lifetime is eternal repetition.
His limit is everlastingness.
In this his dignity of :
'If-he-likes-he-does. If-he-dislikes-he-does-not.'
He who is at the limits of the horizon,
for ever and ever.

Lo, their Ba is in Pharaoh's belly.
Their Akhs are in Pharaoh's possession,
as the surplus of his meal out of the gods.
Which is cooked for Pharaoh from their bones.

Lo, their Ba is in Pharaoh's possession.
Their shadows are removed from their owners,
while Pharaoh is this one who ever rises and lasting lasts.

The doers of ill deeds have no power to destroy,
the chosen seat of Pharaoh,
among the living in this land.
For ever and ever.​

 

[JesusFOREVER]

So first one says Moses spoke to god face to face like a friend would. (Couldn’t be made any clearer that Moses was seeing gods face)

The second, god tells Moses no man can see my face and live.

What is this about.

You just answered your own question

Moses had G14 classification and thus got to see God's face, same way Elijah and Enoch got early access to Heaven, a regular man would have died because they don't have even close to the relationship those 3 have with God

Next

 

[JesusFOREVER]

The first scripture is Moses encountering Christ in the cloud.

The second scripture is referencing God the Father. No mortal has beheld the face of the Father in all his glory.

I've heard this explanation too and it makes sense when you account for the transfiguration, but is there anything else that makes this quote the true answer

 

[DoubleClutch]

It is only necessary to negate something that is possible, not something that is impossible. Thus, when G‑d said “My face may not be seen,” He meant that the workings of Divine providence can be perceived, but not directly.

To explain: There are two ways of grasping a concept: by understanding what it is and by understanding what it is not. If a concept is within our sphere of experience, we can understand what it is. If a concept is outside our sphere of experience, we cannot understand what it is, but we can understand what it is not. We mentally remove it from possibility after possibility until, by process of elimination, we gain a glimpse of it.

Thus, G‑d’s statement, “My face may not be seen,” means that we cannot understand Divine providence directly, but we can understand it by negating what we know it not to be.

Put it in laymen’s terms:

God is too big and complex to see (if he is even visible) or understand completely or even comprehend from mans limited POV or perspective

That’s why Jesus came to simply things, bridge the gap and also have someone we can relate to directly as humans

Before Jesus how did regular people even know God?

Through Prophets/Priests who sinned just like any other man?

Or through visions/experiences..... which we all know can be anything such as manifestations of spirits/demons like false Gods of Egypt (@MMS ) Canaanites, etc.... or even Satan himself (or an ANGEL ) as in the case of Muhammad...... “allegedly”

Alleged Satanic Verse - IslamOnline

An answer to the allegation that Satan threw in a certain couplet when the Prophet (Pbuh) was reciting Surah An-Najm 53.

islamonline.net

 

[MMS]

Welp

Edit. I'm choosing to say we'll cause I'm not arguing with yall anymore. Dude said I believe in Vodou..never once did I say I believe in Vodou. I respect the deities as it is images of black gods and goddesses. And I was wrong according to that particular argument about Vodou being the oldest religion.

I believe nothing comes from nothing..I believe in a creator....yes...that's it. It doesn't govern or care about our lives as it is not an entity.

why do you say this? and with certainty

if God didn't care about mankind...why make them at all? further, why does the biblical narrative even exist let alone all the myriad religions and their testimonies of God (which i havent invalidated)

remember the major context for witches is an inactive God that doesnt influence them. This is why I cant get behind some beliefs because they inherently set you up.

 

[MMS]

Put it in laymen’s terms:

God is too big and complex to see or understand completely or even comprehend from mans limited POV or perspective

That’s why Jesus came to simply things, bridge the gap and also have someone we can relate to directly as humans

Before Jesus how did regular people even know God?

Through Prophets/Priests who sinned just like any other man?

Or through visions..... which we all know can be anything such as false Gods of Egypt (@MMS ) Canaanites, etc.... or even Satan himself as in the case of Muhammad...... “allegedly”

Alleged Satanic Verse - IslamOnline

An answer to the allegation that Satan threw in a certain couplet when the Prophet (Pbuh) was reciting Surah An-Najm 53.

islamonline.net

rather than saying "Satan" a better estimation is Balaam OR Nimrod (might be both )

and consider how people have viewed the passages regarding them. Remember the scriptures are a static source of information being read by dynamic beings. God knows that the static source will ultimately create a dynamic condition in us. Its up to us to consider what it is we are eating spiritually.

 

[DoubleClutch]

rather than saying "Satan" a better estimation is Balaam OR Nimrod (might be both )

and consider how people have viewed the passages regarding them. Remember the scriptures are a static source of information being read by dynamic beings. God knows that the static source will ultimately create a dynamic condition in us. Its up to us to consider what it is we are eating spiritually.

Is the word of God “static”?

 

[JoelB]

1. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden during the time that Cain and Abel were born. I have alluded to my interpretation in a prior post. This also explains why Lamech says if Cain be avenged sevenfold, surely Lamech seventy and seven.
2. Abram offering 10% and the bread and wine is actually an allegory to Pharoahs butler and baker who represented his wine and bread whose dreams were interpreted by Joseph. Melchizedek AND Abram slaughtered the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah and is one of the earliest recurring Judges of man not actually found in the book of Judges

I will explain something potentially obscure to you that you may not have caught the first time through reading the gospels..

Acts 9:1-16



now read here

Mark 5:1-15



now finally, the blessing of Jacob is that he struggled with the Angel of the LORD and prevailed. and infamously this is what transpired

Genesis 32:24-31


"My Name" is the Angel of the LORD. And also who Jesus was pitted against by Paul. Even Moses knows "My Name"

Exodus 20:24

1. I agree, this takes place after being kicked out of Eden. As there was no sin in eden, there would be no need for sacrifices to atone for. The moment sin is introduced, we see the first examples of offerings and sacrifice.

2. We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. "Do not thing I've come to abolish the law or the Prophets. I did not come to abolish but to fulfill" Bread & Wine, the body/temple being destroyed and resurrected, sacrifices, atonement, all point to the messiah who would crush the head of the serpent. (It shall bruise thy head, thou shall bruise thy heal) Genesis tells us how the story ends. Remember Exod 19-5...Israel was meant to be a holy nation, a kingdom of priests. Abram/Abraham/Issac/Jacob/Israel/12 Tribes/David/Solomon (Israel turns to idolatry. They are destroyed) Christ comes and sits on davids throne. That is the fulfillment.



As far as the texts in acts, im not sure what the connection is between the demons Legion introducing themself when in the presence of Christ and Paul. For clarification are you saying Paul did not in fact hear from Christ, but someone else?

Let the record show MMS didnt answer my question about Christ dying for atonement, Kingdom rulership on earth, etc but Imma leave that alone at this point

Im going to get something to eat and the read the link you posted about ananias and Tamut