BREAKING: US tells Ukraine we’re broke, HYON

Mister Terrific

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that is for the long term health of the economy. he isnt asking for babies to become soldiers for a ukraine war 19 years from now. when i say time is not on ukraine's side, im not speaking in terms of decades of war. im saying ukraine may not have the ability to continue a grinding stalemate in a few more years.
The entire Russian Empire collapsed into civil war and a 600 year old dynasty was destroyed after 3 years of warfare in World war 1. The 70 year old Soviet Union collapsed after the war in Afghanistan. What makes you think that the 20 year old Putin regime will survive Ukraine?

A recent Russian opinion poll indicates that the number of Russians who fully support the war in Ukraine has almost halved since February 2023 and that more Russians support a withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine than do not. Independent Russian opposition polling organization Chronicles stated that data from its October 17-22, 2023, telephone survey indicates that respondents who are “consistent” supporters of the war - those who expressed support for the war, do not support a withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine without Russia having achieved its war aims, and think that Russia should prioritize military spending - decreased from 22 percent to 12 percent between February 2023 and October 2023.[1]Chronicles stated that 40 percent of respondents supported a withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine without Russia having achieved its war aims, and that this number has remained consistent at about 39 to 40 percent throughout 2023. Chronicles stated that 33 percent of respondents did not support a Russian withdrawal and favored a continuation of the war and noted that this number has been consistently decreasing from 47 percent in February 2023 and 39 percent in July 2023. Recent polling by the independent Russian polling organization Levada Center published on October 31 indicated that 55 percent of respondents believed that Russia should begin peace negotiations whereas 38 percent favored continuing the war.[2]



The Russian war in Ukraine has created new social tensions and exacerbated existing ones within Russia, which remain highly visible in the Russian information space despite ongoing Kremlin censorship efforts. Relatives of mobilized personnel continue making widespread complaints and appeals for aid for mobilized personnel despite reported Russian efforts to censor such complaints.[3] Russian opposition outlet Vazhnye Istorii reported on November 29 that Russians have sent over 180,000 complaints about issues concerning the Ministry of Defense (MoD) to the Russian Presidential Office for Working with Citizens’ Appeals since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[4] The majority of these complaints reportedly concern payments to soldiers, mobilization status, missing persons, and poor medical care.[5] The Kremlin has also been capitalizing on recent ethnic tensions in Russia to support ongoing force generation measures and appeal to Russian ultranationalists, establishing a cycle that keeps these tensions at the forefront of ultranationalist dialogue.[6] The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that protest activity and social tension are increasing in Russia, particularly in western Russia, due to the war in Ukraine and that the top echelons of Russian leadership are discussing these tensions.[7] The GUR noted that increasing crime, alcohol abuse, inflation, and high consumer goods prices also contribute to rising social tensions, and many of these factors are likely exacerbated by the continued Russian war in Ukraine.[8] The Kremlin has consistently failed to place Russian society on a wartime footing to support the Russian war effort, and the shifting poll numbers and exacerbated social tensions indicate that this failure is having a tangible effect on Russian society ahead of the 2024 Russian presidential elections.[9]



The Kremlin is likely concerned about how changing Russian perceptions of the Russian war in Ukraine will affect the outcome of the March 2024 Russian presidential election and is implementing measures to ensure that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s actual electoral support does not rest on Russian battlefield successes. Russian President Vladimir Putin will reportedly center his presidential campaign on Russia’s alleged domestic stability and increased criticism of the West instead of focusing on the war.[10] Putin and other Russian government officials have already signaled their intention to intensify censorship efforts by claiming that some Russian citizens who left Russia and others still in Russia have begun efforts to discredit the upcoming Russian presidential elections and that Russia will do “everything necessary” to prevent election meddling.[11] Russian authorities have also attempted to consolidate control over the Russian information space and have intensified measures encouraging self-censorship.[12] Russian milbloggers suggested that Russian political officials financing Telegram channels ordered milbloggers to cease debates and criticisms about the Russian military prior to the Russian presidential elections.[13] The Kremlin has likely attempted to shore up popular support for Putin throughout Russia by establishing a network of “proxies” to campaign on Putin’s behalf.[14]

 

NZA

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The entire Russian Empire collapsed into civil war and a 600 year old dynasty was destroyed after 3 years of warfare in World war 1. The 70 year old Soviet Union collapsed after the war in Afghanistan. What makes you think that the 20 year old Putin regime will survive Ukraine?

A recent Russian opinion poll indicates that the number of Russians who fully support the war in Ukraine has almost halved since February 2023 and that more Russians support a withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine than do not. Independent Russian opposition polling organization Chronicles stated that data from its October 17-22, 2023, telephone survey indicates that respondents who are “consistent” supporters of the war - those who expressed support for the war, do not support a withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine without Russia having achieved its war aims, and think that Russia should prioritize military spending - decreased from 22 percent to 12 percent between February 2023 and October 2023.[1]Chronicles stated that 40 percent of respondents supported a withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine without Russia having achieved its war aims, and that this number has remained consistent at about 39 to 40 percent throughout 2023. Chronicles stated that 33 percent of respondents did not support a Russian withdrawal and favored a continuation of the war and noted that this number has been consistently decreasing from 47 percent in February 2023 and 39 percent in July 2023. Recent polling by the independent Russian polling organization Levada Center published on October 31 indicated that 55 percent of respondents believed that Russia should begin peace negotiations whereas 38 percent favored continuing the war.[2]



The Russian war in Ukraine has created new social tensions and exacerbated existing ones within Russia, which remain highly visible in the Russian information space despite ongoing Kremlin censorship efforts. Relatives of mobilized personnel continue making widespread complaints and appeals for aid for mobilized personnel despite reported Russian efforts to censor such complaints.[3] Russian opposition outlet Vazhnye Istorii reported on November 29 that Russians have sent over 180,000 complaints about issues concerning the Ministry of Defense (MoD) to the Russian Presidential Office for Working with Citizens’ Appeals since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[4] The majority of these complaints reportedly concern payments to soldiers, mobilization status, missing persons, and poor medical care.[5] The Kremlin has also been capitalizing on recent ethnic tensions in Russia to support ongoing force generation measures and appeal to Russian ultranationalists, establishing a cycle that keeps these tensions at the forefront of ultranationalist dialogue.[6] The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that protest activity and social tension are increasing in Russia, particularly in western Russia, due to the war in Ukraine and that the top echelons of Russian leadership are discussing these tensions.[7] The GUR noted that increasing crime, alcohol abuse, inflation, and high consumer goods prices also contribute to rising social tensions, and many of these factors are likely exacerbated by the continued Russian war in Ukraine.[8] The Kremlin has consistently failed to place Russian society on a wartime footing to support the Russian war effort, and the shifting poll numbers and exacerbated social tensions indicate that this failure is having a tangible effect on Russian society ahead of the 2024 Russian presidential elections.[9]



The Kremlin is likely concerned about how changing Russian perceptions of the Russian war in Ukraine will affect the outcome of the March 2024 Russian presidential election and is implementing measures to ensure that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s actual electoral support does not rest on Russian battlefield successes. Russian President Vladimir Putin will reportedly center his presidential campaign on Russia’s alleged domestic stability and increased criticism of the West instead of focusing on the war.[10] Putin and other Russian government officials have already signaled their intention to intensify censorship efforts by claiming that some Russian citizens who left Russia and others still in Russia have begun efforts to discredit the upcoming Russian presidential elections and that Russia will do “everything necessary” to prevent election meddling.[11] Russian authorities have also attempted to consolidate control over the Russian information space and have intensified measures encouraging self-censorship.[12] Russian milbloggers suggested that Russian political officials financing Telegram channels ordered milbloggers to cease debates and criticisms about the Russian military prior to the Russian presidential elections.[13] The Kremlin has likely attempted to shore up popular support for Putin throughout Russia by establishing a network of “proxies” to campaign on Putin’s behalf.[14]

most governments are managing unpopular policy. most of the time, it never results in a political crisis. i think we are far closer to zelensky not being able to endure anymore casualties while on the offensive than we are to putin being removed. and even if putin got removed, i have no reason to assume his successor will reverse his policy toward NATO expansion since it is viewed in russian military circles as an existential problem.
 

Mister Terrific

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most governments are managing unpopular policy. most of the time, it never results in a political crisis. i think we are far closer to zelensky not being able to endure anymore casualties while on the offensive than we are to putin being removed. and even if putin got removed, i have no reason to assume his successor will reverse his policy toward NATO expansion since it is viewed in russian military circles as an existential problem.
Unpopular policy. :laff:This isn’t going from paying $2 for a loaf of bread to $3. This is hundreds of thousands of young men dying when your nation entered point of no return demographic decline 20 years ago and an economy that will never go back to prewar levels. Zelenskyy can sell his people on NATO membership and defending the motherland. What is Putin selling since his invasion has only made NATO larger? A burnt out Donbas?

Also your comment about Russia continuing down its current geopolitical path with a Soviet era gangster with Putin’s credentials running the show is laughable. We already saw one coup attempt that only “failed” because the guy was still loyal to Putin? Who is going to be loyal to his successor if he even has one picked out? Who in Russia currently has the force of personality to unite Russia in what is going to be another 30 year Cold War where they are in demographic and economic collapse?

There will be a civil war for power once Putin kicks it and thousands of Russians dying per month in trenches will be looked at as the good ole days


 

NZA

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Unpopular policy. :laff:This isn’t going from paying $2 for a loaf of bread to $3. This is hundreds of thousands of young men dying when your nation entered point of no return demographic decline 20 years ago and an economy that will never go back to prewar levels. Zelenskyy can sell his people on NATO membership and defending the motherland. What is Putin selling since his invasion has only made NATO larger? A burnt out Donbas?

Also your comment about Russia continuing down its current geopolitical path with a Soviet era gangster with Putin’s credentials running the show is laughable. We already saw one coup attempt that only “failed” because the guy was still loyal to Putin? Who is going to be loyal to his successor if he even has one picked out? Who in Russia currently has the force of personality to unite Russia in what is going to be another 30 year Cold War where they are in demographic and economic collapse?

There will be a civil war for power once Putin kicks it and thousands of Russians dying per month in trenches will be looked at as the good ole days



you may be misunderstanding what im saying; im not even talking about zelensky having political problems. i said he has a manpower problem and it appears to be of more immediacy than russia's political problems. selling his people on NATO membership is a moot point. that's irrelevent if he cant keep sending troops forward to overwhelm russia and take land. he also cant actually become a NATO member while in war. the fastest track into NATO would be to negotiate an end to war with russia turning the captured territory into a buffer and then ukraine would have to improve the corruption and political issues in order to get allowed in.

as for wagner, a coup attempt while still being loyal to putin doesnt even make sense. that had nothing to do with the popularity of the war and everything to do with prigozhin's own precarious position within the system. he was unpopular with the generals and needed to do something to end the sabotage and attempts on his and his men's lives. as a matter of fact, the public sentiment seemed to be that wagner was popular with the citizens because they were perceived as being more effective in killing ukrainians than the russian regulars. this does not spell a political crisis in the immediate future due to the war being so unpopular. it's just impetus for him to get more effective, if anything.
 

Secure Da Bag

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At the bolded part - It's already starting to happen.

Don't get me wrong, I side with Ukraine in terms that they have a right to defend themselves and their territorial sovereignty and integrity. However, the amount of propaganda that The West was doing for Ukraine while ignoring the fukkery within Ukraine (pre and during the war) was shocking.

Ignoring or not knowing. Because I certainly didn't know. All I heard was, "Russia snatched up Crimea". From there it was on.
 

Mister Terrific

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you may be misunderstanding what im saying; im not even talking about zelensky having political problems. i said he has a manpower problem and it appears to be of more immediacy than russia's political problems.
I’m not misunderstanding what you are saying, you are misunderstanding Russia citizens political will based on a lack of knowledge of Russian military and civil history and an ignorance on how dictatorships operate. Putin needs military victories far more than Zelensky needs them. As of now Russia is struggling to advance on Adviinka and is steadily losing ground in the more vulnerable south. Russia does not have an inexhaustible manpower advantage nor are there any signs of Ukrainian lines or defenses collapsing due to manpower shortages. In fact Russian losses seem to be increasing to more than at any point of the war according to a British intel

Russia's Worst Month: November Troop Losses Comparable to World War I​

Imperial Russia in World War I suffered about 1.8 million military dead or an average 1,100 men a day. The Russian Federation last month lost 900 soldiers every 24 hours and some days were worse.
Russian soldiers are probably getting killed or wounded in combat in Ukraine at a pace unmatched for the entire war, and casualty counts during the month November 2023 appear to be nearing World War I rates.

Russian soldiers and heavy weapons loss statistics published on Nov. 29 by Ragnar Gudmundsson, a longtime Russo-Ukraine War military data researcher, placed by-week Kremlin troop casualties at an average of 994 men killed a day during the previous week and said more than 25,000 Russian service personnel died or were severely wounded in combat in Ukraine during the month of November.

That pace of casualties, primarily in attacks towards the Donbas region city of Avdiivka, exceeds by some 10 percent peak losses suffered by the Russian army during ultimately successful assaults on the Donbas cities of Severodonetsk, in March and April 2022, and in failed attacks on the city of Vuhledar, in February 2023, the Icelandic researcher’s analysis of Ukrainian claims of Russian troop losses found.







as for wagner, a coup attempt while still being loyal to putin doesnt even make sense. that had nothing to do with the popularity of the war and everything to do with prigozhin's own precarious position within the system. he was unpopular with the generals and needed to do something to end the sabotage and attempts on his and his men's lives. as a matter of fact, the public sentiment seemed to be that wagner was popular with the citizens because they were perceived as being more effective in killing ukrainians than the russian regulars. this does not spell a political crisis in the immediate future due to the war being so unpopular. it's just impetus for him to get more effective, if anything.
I’m not using the coup as an example of the popularity of the war but the general instability of the Russian political system. The fact that a general had a free March on Moscow with popular support shows that the only thing holding Russia together as a viable political entity is Putin. The thought that Putin is going to die and there being a peaceful transition of power to a subordinate when the entire western world is aligned against a country with the GDP Texas while experiencing massive demographic decline is the most laughable thing over heard yet today.

The fact that Putin has convinced his subordinates to self destruct in Ukraine is commendable in itself.
 

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Coli's anti-West weirdos like :ohhh: when they hear you can walk and chew gum at the same time
America couldn't even beat the Taliban. :mjlol:

Citizens going bankrupt over healthcare needs. :russ:

President a senile Weekend-At-Bernie's shyt show. :heh:

Opposition party lead by a fat clown C-list celebrity whose big moment was a cameo in Home Alone 2. And they can't even jail him. :deadrose:

And your police are basically just the Ku Klux Klan and you do nothing but give them more money. :childplease:

Americans are hoes and fatasses. :sas2:
 

NZA

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I’m not misunderstanding what you are saying, you are misunderstanding Russia citizens political will based on a lack of knowledge of Russian military and civil history and an ignorance on how dictatorships operate. Putin needs military victories far more than Zelensky needs them. As of now Russia is struggling to advance on Adviinka and is steadily losing ground in the more vulnerable south. Russia does not have an inexhaustible manpower advantage nor are there any signs of Ukrainian lines or defenses collapsing due to manpower shortages. In fact Russian losses seem to be increasing to more than at any point of the war according to a British intel










I’m not using the coup as an example of the popularity of the war but the general instability of the Russian political system. The fact that a general had a free March on Moscow with popular support shows that the only thing holding Russia together as a viable political entity is Putin. The thought that Putin is going to die and there being a peaceful transition of power to a subordinate when the entire western world is aligned against a country with the GDP Texas while experiencing massive demographic decline is the most laughable thing over heard yet today.

The fact that Putin has convinced his subordinates to self destruct in Ukraine is commendable in itself.
i never said they were collapsing, i said it does not appear they can sustain an offensive enough to take back all they lost due to manpower.

america had a civilian assault on the capital with tons of high level conspirators including the president himself. by that logic, we are even closer to political collapse than russia.

you are far more optimistic than NATO generals. i think that is probably not a good idea. we will see in the coming years...
 

Mister Terrific

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i never said they were collapsing, i said it does not appear they can sustain an offensive enough to take back all they lost due to manpower.
They don’t need to sustain an offensive. Keeping pressure on the Russians until their inevitable political collapse is all that is necessary. Russia has to simultaneous maintain defense of a bombed out Donbas but also eventually provide some type of civil administration while maintaining its military commitments abroad, mainly Africa. This while selling off its economy to China for a pittance. How long can Russia maintain an occupation of east Ukraine? Forever? Lol.

america had a civilian assault on the capital with tons of high level conspirators including the president himself. by that logic, we are even closer to political collapse than russia.
Utter nonsensical comparison. Unarmed civilian rioters is in no way comparison to an actually army with artillery support literally marching on the capital of a one man dictatorship. The conspirators were literally tried and sentenced in a court of law. Putin struck a deal with the rogue commander then assassinated him. The capital insurrectionists didn’t have military support, meanwhile units were defecting to Wagner and they were only paralyzed when they realized that Putin had 0 defense and that they were marching unimpeded to Moscow.

Silly assertion. The US has had a peaceful transition of power every 4 years give or take for 230 years. Russia hasn’t had a peaceful transition of power without full blown dictatorship/political assassinations in its entire existence. But that’s going to end when Putin kicks it I’m sure. :mjlol:

you are far more optimistic than NATO generals. i think that is probably not a good idea. we will see in the coming years...
What NATO generals and what are they saying?
 

NZA

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They don’t need to sustain an offensive. Keeping pressure on the Russians until their inevitable political collapse is all that is necessary. Russia has to simultaneous maintain defense of a bombed out Donbas but also eventually provide some type of civil administration while maintaining its military commitments abroad, mainly Africa. This while selling off its economy to China for a pittance. How long can Russia maintain an occupation of east Ukraine? Forever? Lol.


Utter nonsensical comparison. Unarmed civilian rioters is in no way comparison to an actually army with artillery support literally marching on the capital of a one man dictatorship. The conspirators were literally tried and sentenced in a court of law. Putin struck a deal with the rogue commander then assassinated him. The capital insurrectionists didn’t have military support, meanwhile units were defecting to Wagner and they were only paralyzed when they realized that Putin had 0 defense and that they were marching unimpeded to Moscow.

Silly assertion. The US has had a peaceful transition of power every 4 years give or take for 230 years. Russia hasn’t had a peaceful transition of power without full blown dictatorship/political assassinations in its entire existence. But that’s going to end when Putin kicks it I’m sure. :mjlol:


What NATO generals and what are they saying?
as i said in the last post, you are more optimistic than the people who have been backing and advising on this. im gonna get let you go now.
 
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Is that you Joe Biden!?
 

YouMadd?

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I mean who actually thought Ukraine was winning? When you watch any of those YouTube war maps it’s clear Russia is solidifying the east and Ukraine eventually would just run out of people to hold them back. Ukraine has international backing, but eventually they run out of bodies. Someone has to control those expensive remote control toys the US sends over. Russia has more people to feed to the fodder.
 

YouMadd?

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Who were/are trying to overthrow Ukraine... :dead:

Why wouldn't Ukraine bomb clowns that are trying to overthrow it with help from Russia? :skip:

moron.
Innocent people died apparently. Or is this a Israel Palestine situation where we don’t count them because Russia is a bigger player so they can’t be mad about their innocent lives lost
 
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