black feminism/womanism thread

[hatechall]

its hard for me to keep a positive dialogue about black feminist. they actively work against their own best interest, and usually envy the hell out of white women and all the benefits they receive from white patriarchy

I disagree with Marcuz on feminism but this comment was spot on.
Black women dislike black men because they feel that we've failed to provide them with the luxuries that white patriarchy has afforded white women. They dislike the fact that black women have always had to work, while white women historically didn't have to. They believe that non-black women are treated like princesses, and they want the same treatment.

Nevertheless, I agree with some of the tenants of feminism. The current construction of black masculinity is unhealthy, particularly in poor and working-class areas. This pervasive "hypermasculinity" is literally killing us. How can you not question what it means to be masculine when thousands of our boys murder each other over petty disputes? Not over money, but over petty arguments and slights. Let that sink in.

All men have an inborn lust for domination, which is manifested in slightly different ways across cultures and socio-economic strata. But in all cases, dominator culture has drawbacks. Look at the ease with which white and Asian men commit suicide, for example. That has a lot to do with the way they view masculinity. Failure to attain a certain status in life is worthy of death. Is that a notion of masculinity that black people should emulate? I don't think so.

We can't reach our full potential as a race without gender equality. I mentioned this in another thread when some fool said that patriarchy is a staple of prosperous societies, as if it's not a staple of unprosperous societies. If you care about black people (or humanity as a whole) reaching our full potential (or at least coming as close to it as we possibly can) then you have to care about gender equality. I don't expect women to fight wars and such, but granting them positions of leadership in academia, business and politics is a worthwhile goal.

 

[Red Shield]

I disagree with Marcuz on feminism but this comment was spot on.
Black women dislike black men because they feel that we've failed to provide them with the luxuries that white patriarchy has afforded white women. They dislike the fact that black women have always had to work, while white women historically didn't have to. They believe that non-black women are treated like princesses, and they want the same treatment.

Nevertheless, I agree with some of the tenants of feminism. The current construction of black masculinity is unhealthy, particularly in poor and working-class areas. This pervasive "hypermasculinity" is literally killing us. How can you not question what it means to be masculine when thousands of our boys murder each other over petty disputes? Not over money, but over petty arguments and slights. Let that sink in.

All men have an inborn lust for domination, which is manifested in slightly different ways across cultures and socio-economic strata. But in all cases, dominator culture has drawbacks. Look at the ease with which white and Asian men commit suicide, for example. That has a lot to do with the way they view masculinity. Failure to attain a certain status in life is worthy of death. Is that a notion of masculinity that black people should emulate? I don't think so.

We can't reach our full potential as a race without gender equality. I mentioned this in another thread when some fool said that patriarchy is a staple of prosperous societies, as if it's not a staple of unprosperous societies. If you care about black people (or humanity as a whole) reaching our full potential (or at least coming as close to it as we possibly can) then you have to care about gender equality. I don't expect women to fight wars and such, but granting them positions of leadership in academia, business and politics is a worthwhile goal.

You need only to look at their countries to see that it's worth emulating. Men are expendable in the grand scheme of things.. so it's a price worth paying.

 

[Blackking]

You need only to look at their countries to see that it's worth emulating. Men are expendable in the grand scheme of things.. so it's a price worth paying.

Science has already made a way that humans caN continue without men.

 

[Blackking]

I disagree with Marcuz on feminism but this comment was spot on.
Black women dislike black men because they feel that we've failed to provide them with the luxuries that white patriarchy has afforded white women. They dislike the fact that black women have always had to work, while white women historically didn't have to. They believe that non-black women are treated like princesses, and they want the same treatment.

Nevertheless, I agree with some of the tenants of feminism. The current construction of black masculinity is unhealthy, particularly in poor and working-class areas. This pervasive "hypermasculinity" is literally killing us. How can you not question what it means to be masculine when thousands of our boys murder each other over petty disputes? Not over money, but over petty arguments and slights. Let that sink in.

All men have an inborn lust for domination, which is manifested in slightly different ways across cultures and socio-economic strata. But in all cases, dominator culture has drawbacks. Look at the ease with which white and Asian men commit suicide, for example. That has a lot to do with the way they view masculinity. Failure to attain a certain status in life is worthy of death. Is that a notion of masculinity that black people should emulate? I don't think so.

We can't reach our full potential as a race without gender equality. I mentioned this in another thread when some fool said that patriarchy is a staple of prosperous societies, as if it's not a staple of unprosperous societies. If you care about black people (or humanity as a whole) reaching our full potential (or at least coming as close to it as we possibly can) then you have to care about gender equality. I don't expect women to fight wars and such, but granting them positions of leadership in academia, business and politics is a worthwhile goal.

Don't generalize black men.

Also you can be pro black that is better because it includes the empowerment and support of black women.

Black feminists do not do that.... they confront black men , act divisive, and some even support white supremacy. All of it is based in white supremacy. ...

You need to read my post on the previous pages. Plus think about it

Nearly every pro black person who has actually helped black women.... wasn't a feminist.

 

[godkiller]

I
We can't reach our full potential as a race without gender equality. I mentioned this in another thread when some fool said that patriarchy is a staple of prosperous societies, as if it's not a staple of unprosperous societies. If you care about black people (or humanity as a whole) reaching our full potential (or at least coming as close to it as we possibly can) then you have to care about gender equality. I don't expect women to fight wars and such, but granting them positions of leadership in academia, business and politics is a worthwhile goal.

It seems to me that cacs achieved their full potential as a race without full gender equality so the assertion blacks can't is absurd at face. After all sexism was common, pervasive and ingrained in society for the hundreds of years cacs' conquered different continent. But cacs warmongering succeeded nevertheless inasmuch as cac women did as they were told. Feminism might even have been detrimental to cac fortunes if given free reign.

Everything black women should expect from black men they are already given, including the right to an education, academic, business, politics, etc. Black feminsm and anti-black maleness, however, is anti-black and should not be tolerated.

 

[marcuz]

I disagree with Marcuz on feminism but this comment was spot on.
Black women dislike black men because they feel that we've failed to provide them with the luxuries that white patriarchy has afforded white women. They dislike the fact that black women have always had to work, while white women historically didn't have to. They believe that non-black women are treated like princesses, and they want the same treatment.

Nevertheless, I agree with some of the tenants of feminism. The current construction of black masculinity is unhealthy, particularly in poor and working-class areas. This pervasive "hypermasculinity" is literally killing us. How can you not question what it means to be masculine when thousands of our boys murder each other over petty disputes? Not over money, but over petty arguments and slights. Let that sink in.

All men have an inborn lust for domination, which is manifested in slightly different ways across cultures and socio-economic strata. But in all cases, dominator culture has drawbacks. Look at the ease with which white and Asian men commit suicide, for example. That has a lot to do with the way they view masculinity. Failure to attain a certain status in life is worthy of death. Is that a notion of masculinity that black people should emulate? I don't think so.

We can't reach our full potential as a race without gender equality. I mentioned this in another thread when some fool said that patriarchy is a staple of prosperous societies, as if it's not a staple of unprosperous societies. If you care about black people (or humanity as a whole) reaching our full potential (or at least coming as close to it as we possibly can) then you have to care about gender equality. I don't expect women to fight wars and such, but granting them positions of leadership in academia, business and politics is a worthwhile goal.

hyper masculinity isnt a result of a patriarchal structure though, its quite the opposite. you have men that have shunned patriarchal values that have been used to traditionally measure ones success and masculinity--like great careers, businesses, how well they provide for their family, etc. now it's about how many nikkas i can beat up, how many nikkas i killed, how many bytches i fukk, how good my pipe laying game is, how many baby mommas i got, etc

i'm all for "gender equality" in the right context. but right now, we should be striving for racial equality.

 

[Westcoastnative]

Don't generalize black men.

Also you can be pro black that is better because it includes the empowerment and support of black women.

Black feminists do not do that.... they confront black men , act divisive, and some even support white supremacy. All of it is based in white supremacy. ...

You need to read my post on the previous pages. Plus think about it

Nearly every pro black person who has actually helped black women.... wasn't a feminist.

So-called black feminists recently had a golden opportunity to prove their pro-blackness by defending black men from white feminism/white supremacy during that viral street harassment video which was just a blatant attack and demonization of black men altogether. The director of the street harassment video even admitted they purposely edited white men out of the video.

Despite all this proof of white supremacy they still sided with white feminism/white supremacy by attacking us even more.

Black feminism is a mouthpiece for white supremacy. Why? Ask a black feminist why they're not going after white supremacy (who they should being going after) and they'll get pissed and defensive, accuse of you of deflecting and remind you that everything is the black mans fault.

 

[Vice Queen]

I just want some literature from the women and gentlemen mentioned in this thread to read. I don't have the heart for this argument.

 

[Gravity]

You are right. I didn't directly address everything in your post and that is because I understand the gits of what you are implying and so I responded to that. As for the criticism, what criticism have I dismissed? I acknowledge that black feminism can be misused so what more is there to say?

You're the one who doesn't understand. You haven't responded to the gist of my argument, which is that black feminism(the movement started in the 70s) is rooted in resentment toward black men.

Challenge feminism as an ideology? You can't challenge something you do not understand. You believe black feminism to be a weapon against the black community. That is false, so I don't know what you are "challenging". Maybe these "bad apples" as you put it but they are not what black feminism is.

"You believe this, but that's false so......." is such a strong counter argument. You should be a lawyer. I'm being sarcastic just in case it flies over your head.

The black feminist movement was started in the 70's on the strength of resentment toward black men. If you are only rebut to that is "that's false" then you have no rebut.

Yes, you listen but you listen to retaliate not to understand.

I don't "retaliate" I respond.

I never denied the fact that BM face discrimination but sexism doesn't only relate to WM (read the definition) because you are suggesting that BM cannot be sexist or experience sexism. That is untrue.

White male sexism is the only form of sexism that's institutionalized in this society. I didn't say that black men cannot be sexist, I said that black men aren't responsible for any systematic/institutional sexism. Black men are probably the biggest victims of sexism in this society. We certainly experience extremely intensified forms of discrimination just for being black men.

In our society, as it is now, M are ranked higher than W in terms of social status. Now add race into the mix. Because of their male status, BM now can exert power upon BW whether they acknowledge it or not. That's how it works but black feminism (or whatever you want to call it) is here to level that.

This is the lie that blCk feminism is built on that I was talking about. This is not how it works. Men are not ranked above women in this society. Whites are ranked above non whites in this society. If men were ranked above women then why are white women privileged above black men? In this society white men are one, white women are two, white children are 3. Blacks are at the bottom with black men being at the very bottom. No other demographic has as big of a target on their back as black men.

Who has black feminism empowered? BW. I didn't answer your question because I know where this is going and I rather not play that game. Say what you will but I'm not up for the "what have you guys accomplished, huh?" tactics were every time you answer it's "well, there not self-identified", "that's not recent enough", "nobody know them", "that's not significant enough", et cetera. There are programs, literature/media, people and so on that are dedicated to empowering BW so I'm not going to do this.

at this weak shyt. Save the simple psychology. I asked you a simple question. I'm not playing any games. You didn't answer that simple question because you can't. Period. You can't name anything that the black feminist movement has accomplished for black people since it's inception in the 70s. Can't even believe you posted that "uh uh I'm not gon answer your question cause you tryna play a game. You just gon shyt on my answer anyway" That's how weak your position/argument is.

 

[PlainSight]

I don't know what kinda black feminists you guys speak to

 

[J-Nice]

I read that thing you posted about Sankara ... that's actually what I was talking about.

You're still telling me what white people, liberals, and racist feminist "regarded" Thomas sankara as. I'm not cherry picking anything... I'm saying it how he said and you're saying how white supremacist state it


What makes you think I have an attitude about it , just because I said pro black is For ALL black people?

I actually Activity participate in causes here. I even went to africa to educate on female Genital Mutations where my peps from. I always notice the Hillary Clinton style black feminist ( like you)... and the Assata Shukur , Thomas Sankura type women liberation activist....

There is a huge difference. I'm not mad, so don't be upset with me just for pointing it out

Spoiler

If you knew what I was talking about and in the context in which I was talking, you would have no problem agreeing with me on this point. Seems like you recently found out about Sankara to be honest and haven't fully delved into his story yet.

And when did African people on the continent and in the diaspora become white liberals and white supremacists?

You too busy chasing boogeymen instead of actually reading books and researching. I've been to Africa and I have lived there before. There is no excuse for you to feign your ignorance in this thread. If you went there and did what you say you did, then you should have a working knowledge of African feminism/womanism (Especially after working with victims of Genital mutilation).

Get to reading these so you can have a better understanding. That's all I'm asking breh. Arguing with you isn't gonna get us anywhere.

“Within neo-colonial white supremacist capitalist patriarchy, the black male body continues to be perceived as an embodiment of bestial, violent, penis-as-weapon hypermasculine assertion. Psychohistories of white racism have always called attention to the tension between the construction of black male body as danger and the underlying eroticization that always then imagines that body as a location for transgressive pleasure. It has taken contemporary commodification of blackness to teach the world that this perceived threat, whether real or symbolic, can be diffused by a process of fetishization that renders the black masculine ‘menace’ feminine through a process of patriarchal objectification.”
― Bell Hooks, We Real Cool: Black Men and Masculinity

“Black males who refuse categorization are rare, for the price of visibility in the contemporary world of white supremacy is that black identity be defined in relation to the stereotype whether by embodying it or seeking to be other than it…Negative stereotypes about the nature of black masculinity continue to overdetermine the identities black males are allowed to fashion for themselves.”

― Bell Hooks, We Real Cool: Black Men and Masculinity

I have this book in PDF as well as "Ain't I feminist: African American men speak out on fatherhood, forgiveness, and freedom" if you would like to read them.

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

Gloria Steinem and Cointelpro:
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/02/310075.shtml

Gloria Steinem and Henry Kissinger, CIA PAY?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a1M9EAly2hog



The whole black feminist movement came from a CIA infiltration. It was not an original black idea. It was "introduced". Your narrative was created for you afterward. Good day, c00n.

 

[bcrusaderw]

You no care about the next generation of black men? Why not? How can you care about one half of a population and not the other?

And if you do only care about one side, then how are your ideals healthy for the larger population?

And what about the mates for the "next generation of black women"? If you don't care about black men, then one can only assume

Peace

The only people who can fix black men are black men.

You see it too right?

All of her talk centers around black women yet she doesnt show much priority with connecting with black men.

Not to mention without both black women and black men having black love that just leaves biracial/mixed women and less black women.

I guess she plans on being a lesbian or something...

Coli woman-haters are always accused of being gay, so its only fair to assume that their counterparts are lesbians...

I don't hate men, and I am not a lesbian.

 

[Blackking]

If you knew what I was talking about and in the context in which I was talking, you would have no problem agreeing with me on this point. Seems like you recently found out about Sankara to be honest and haven't fully delved into his story yet.

And when did African people on the continent and in the diaspora become white liberals and white supremacists?

You too busy chasing boogeymen instead of actually reading books and researching. I've been to Africa and I have lived there before. There is no excuse for you to feign your ignorance in this thread. If you went there and did what you say you did, then you should have a working knowledge of African feminism/womanism (Especially after working with victims of Genital mutilation).

Get to reading these so you can have a better understanding. That's all I'm asking breh. Arguing with you isn't gonna get us anywhere.








I have this book in PDF as well as "Ain't I feminist: African American men speak out on fatherhood, forgiveness, and freedom" if you would like to read them.

I made a thread on sankura ten years ago on sohh.


I spoke out against feminism before feminism was even trendy.

And I participate and support real woman liberation initiatives. Not one thing that has has ever helped black women was started or supported by feminist.


You don't understand feminism , you're a trend following new black and in the above post @ODOT META describes you perfectly.

 

[TMNT4000]

So-called black feminists recently had a golden opportunity to prove their pro-blackness by defending black men from white feminism/white supremacy during that viral street harassment video which was just a blatant attack and demonization of black men altogether. The director of the street harassment video even admitted they purposely edited white men out of the video.

Despite all this proof of white supremacy they still sided with white feminism/white supremacy by attacking us even more.

Black feminism is a mouthpiece for white supremacy. Why? Ask a black feminist why they're not going after white supremacy (who they should being going after) and they'll get pissed and defensive, accuse of you of deflecting and remind you that everything is the black mans fault.

What so sad about that was non-black feminist called the video racist and wrong before the black feminist did.

Than they wanna jump on the ban wagon on calling the video racist because non-black feminist was calling bullshyt on the video, before that they were cool on targeting their own men.