black feminism/womanism thread

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

Thank you, sir.

All bell hooks is doing is repackaging the old Feminist Trope:
"Men die in war, so women suffer more"....She just repackaged it to fit the struggle.

 

[godkiller]

No one gives a fukk about friends no one knows about and no one gives a fukk about your garbage opinion. I have Sankaras books and speeches. There is nothing that you can't tell me that I don't already know. But it's quite fukking evident that you don't mind talking out of your fukking ass when it suits you. Take your bullshyt back to TLR.

This is Root and the proper forum to talk about race questions. Your concerns about relevancy are thus dismissed.

Moving on, inasmuch as my opinion is right and yours is wrong, then people give me creditability over you, my opinion matters more than yours. And with respects to Africans and Africa, feminism does not exist. Patriarchy exists there as anywhere. With respects to Sankara's writings, they don't have any bearing on what black feminism is today and whether black feminism valid or worthwhile. His writings offer precious little insight into these questions.

This aside, why did you neglect to answer my question about your ethnicity?. Are you or are you not a cac or half breed? This would help explain your myopia towards questions of white supremacy.

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

Shout outs to her "black men's bodies need to be sexually liberated, they need a new sexual freedom"...I know what that means, the next chapter goes on to break down why black men shouldn't be "tough". I see the ideas on the surface. They seem to have good intentions, but underneath the surface, I see the real, and I know what's behind that. These lands she talks about had patriarchies before we were brought to America....she brings up Maroons and Native american tribes that accepted blacks....They were also Patriarchal. Most matriarchies were based on lineage...they were figurehead positions.

 

[marcuz]

If patriarchal structure isn't in place, then the fault necessarily lies with the men. You can't just wag your finger at women and blame them for the behavior of boys and young men. Ultimately men decide for themselves what it means to masculine. The Aka Pygmies of Central Africa measure masculinity in terms of nurturing their children. Why can't poor African American men do the same?

i wag my finger at men and women. women get the wag because they raise the next generation of boys and girls, and they've deemed patriarchy oppressive and evil. hell, that's the whole premise of this thread. OP getting around some damn feminist and letting them indoctrinate him with their non-sense.

and why can't i blame women for the behavior of boys and young men? BW only have them in their custody for 2 decades, they deserve a large chunk of the blame.

as for your question about poor AA's measuring masculinity based on how they nurture children; i'd need you to ask all these single mothers that are raising them that question. my guess would be that manhood/fatherhood is demonized in the black community and there's absolutely NO value or reward in being a good nurturer. most BW dont even see the necessity for a strong black father outside of a paycheck, so why would black males seek a role that has no reward?

 

[hatechall]

i wag my finger at men and women. women get the wag because they raise the next generation of boys and girls, and they've deemed patriarchy oppressive and evil. hell, that's the whole premise of this thread. OP getting around some damn feminist and letting them indoctrinate him with their non-sense.

and why can't i blame women for the behavior of boys and young men? BW only have them in their custody for 2 decades, they deserve a large chunk of the blame.

as for your question about poor AA's measuring masculinity based on how they nurture children; i'd need you to ask all these single mothers that are raising them that question. my guess would be that manhood/fatherhood is demonized in the black community and there's absolutely NO value or reward in being a good nurturer. most BW dont even see the necessity for a strong black father outside of a paycheck, so why would black males seek a role that has no reward?

Upper middle-class women deemed patriarchy oppressive and evil, not poor women. Women in the latter group only proclaim they "don't need no man," because they don't believe that a good marriage is an option for them. Many have grandmothers or great grandmothers who abandoned the institution because of spousal abuse. In the eyes of such women, government aid or financial independence is preferable to an abusive marriage.

That's not to say that black women shouldn't be held accountable for choosing poor mates. It's just that, in a patriarchal world - forget the black community - fatherless children reflect poorly on men more so than women. Whether that's fair or not is besides the point. Black men get blamed for that shyt at the end of the day.

Regarding the role of the man, once again, I agree. It's no secret that black women evaluate men according to their paycheck, or lack thereof. But who gives a shyt? I mean, there's power in p*ssy...but p*ssy doesn't dictate masculinity. There was a time when a man with two earrings was regarded as unworthy of a woman's companionship. But once a critical mass of nikkas adopted that practice, women began to view it as acceptable. They didn't have any other choice.

If I lived in a poor community where women have greater access to jobs or government aid, I would strive to get a critical mass of men in my community to undertake the task of full-time parenting (not to be confused with lazily giving orders from the couch). If you reach critical mass, who cares if black women don't see the importance of your role? Women work with what they're given.

 

[marcuz]

Upper middle-class women deemed patriarchy oppressive and evil, not poor women. Women in the latter group only proclaim they "don't need no man," because they don't believe that a good marriage is an option for them. Many have grandmothers or great grandmothers who abandoned the institution because of spousal abuse. In the eyes of such women, government aid or financial independence is preferable to an abusive marriage.

no, i'd say its across the board, if not reverse. upper-middle class women actually see the tangible benefits of a strong patriarchy. they live in safe neighborhoods, dont have to worry about bills, drive nice cars, etc. to me, a lot of the strong and independent mentality comes from women trapped in poverty.

That's not to say that black women shouldn't be held accountable for choosing poor mates. It's just that, in a patriarchal world - forget the black community - fatherless children reflect poorly on men more so than women. Whether that's fair or not is besides the point. Black men get blamed for that shyt at the end of the day.

yeah, you had to say forget the black community because you know the shyt is bizarro world in this matriarchal bubble but you're right, the system will still comes a long and hold dead beat men accountable.

Regarding the role of the man, once again, I agree. It's no secret that black women evaluate men according to their paycheck, or lack thereof. But who gives a shyt? I mean, there's power in p*ssy...but p*ssy doesn't dictate masculinity. Time was, a man with two earrings was regarded as unworthy of a woman's companionship. But once a critical mass of nikkas adopted that practice, women began to view it as acceptable. They didn't have any other choice.

i didn't suggest sex dictates masculinity, i'm saying one of many b*stardized measures of ones masculinity.

If I lived in a poor community where women have greater access to jobs or government aid, I would strive to get a critical mass of men in my community to undertake the task of full-time parenting (not to be confused with lazily giving orders from the couch). If you reach critical mass, who cares if black women don't see the importance of your role? Women work with what they're given.

if they dont see the value in their greatest asset, the black community is finished.

 

[southpawstyle]

All bell hooks is doing is repackaging the old Feminist Trope:
"Men die in war, so women suffer more"....She just repackaged it to fit the struggle.

I generally don't agree with her, but she poses a different viewpoint that gives context to other situations

 

[J-Nice]

This is Root and the proper forum to talk about race questions. Your concerns about relevancy are thus dismissed.

Moving on, inasmuch as my opinion is right and yours is wrong, then people give me creditability over you, my opinion matters more than yours. And with respects to Africans and Africa, feminism does not exist. Patriarchy exists there as anywhere. With respects to Sankara's writings, they don't have any bearing on what black feminism is today and whether black feminism valid or worthwhile. His writings offer precious little insight into these questions.

This aside, why did you neglect to answer my question about your ethnicity?. Are you or are you not a cac or half breed? This would help explain your myopia towards questions of white supremacy.

No, the root is a place to have informed and progressive dialogue about race issues and you've done none of that. Where does calling people "cacs" and "c00ns" fall under progressive? Where does making uninformed opinions fall under proper forum talk? You can take that nonsense back to TLR.

Why do you feel comfortable talking about things you've never read or researched outside of articles and youtube clips? It's quite obvious that you haven't read any kind of literature if you think for one second that Sankara's writings are outdated. I have an entire continent and the diaspora on my side when it comes to Sankara's work, so going by your logic, my opinion trumps yours.

With all of the literature and authors that have been thrown around in this thread, you still choose to remain ignorant and uninformed. That is a sign of a mentally weak individual. Until you read and research this subject, I'll continue to ignore your garbage opinion.

 

[godkiller]

No, the root is a place to have informed and progressive dialogue about race issues and you've done none of that. Where does calling people "cacs" and "c00ns" fall under progressive? Where does making uninformed opinions fall under proper forum talk? You can take that nonsense back to TLR.

Why do you feel comfortable talking about things you've never read or researched outside of articles and youtube clips? It's quite obvious that you haven't read any kind of literature if you think for one second that Sankara's writings are outdated. I have an entire continent and the diaspora on my side when it comes to Sankara's work, so going by your logic, my opinion trumps yours.

With all of the literature and authors that have been thrown around in this thread, you still choose to remain ignorant and uninformed. That is a sign of a mentally weak individual. Until you read and research this subject, I'll continue to ignore your garbage opinion.

1. You are mistaken. The Root is merely a forum to discuss racial, not merely the ones you define as "informed and progressive". The fact you refuse to answer my question as to your origins, preferring instead to switch the goal posts, is an indictment of your intellectual honesty.

2. You have no proof I lack rigor or research in my writing. You dont even attempt to reply to my points; all you do is talk about Sankara as though his points have any bearing on black feminist tenets today and their implications.

3. I am from 2 black disaporas and do not see them reconciling Sankara's views with black feminism's. The 2 notions are obviously different and the black disapora is not feminist centric anyway. I know the continent too is this wau so which imaginary black people on this planet are " on your side", may I as

 

[J-Nice]

1.

You are mistaken. The Root is merely a forum to discuss racial, not merely the ones you define as "informed and progressive". The fact you refuse to answer my question as to your origins, preferring instead to switch the goal posts, is an indictment of your intellectual honesty.

The Root
The place for mature discussion of Race, Racism, Social Issues, Culture, Identity & more. A wide variety of topics relating to ethnicity in America and around the world.

The very purpose of the Root itself ties into my definition of MATURE discussion that is progressive and informative. Calling people "Cacs" and "c00ns" hardly coincides with the feeble minded rhetoric you have shown in this thread. My origins aren't up for debate. What is being discussed in this thread is Black Feminism/womanism in which you have offered zero input.

2. You have no proof I lack rigor or research in my writing. You dont even attempt to reply to my points; all you do is talk about Sankara as though his points have any bearing on black feminist tenets today and their implications.

You don't even know basic Black feminist/Womanist theory outside of youtube clips and articles that speak to your bias, so you can't be taken seriously. The proof is in your statements and your lack of comprehension when it comes to this topic. The mere suggestion that Thomas Sankara's writings are irrelevant in today's climate is proof as such that you have not read a single book or speech by said person. Neither have you read or researched any literature pertaining to this subject.

3. I am from 2 black disaporas and do not see them reconciling Sankara's views with black feminism's. The 2 notions are obviously different and the black disapora is not feminist centric anyway. I know the continent too is this wau so which imaginary black people on this planet are " on your side", may I as

You don't see anything because you have not read or researched said subject and now you're attempting to move the goal posts in an effort to be taken seriously, and you won't be on this subject when you come back with books read and solid research. There have been authors and books on offer in this thread and yet I have seen none by you whatsoever to the contrary.

I am an African American from the Bronx who's ancestors were slaves that built wall street. I'm active on the ground in my community and I've been to Africa. My most recent trip was last summer. You on the other hand are not African American, have never set foot in this fukking hemisphere, and you haven't set foot in Africa either. This will be my last reply to you until you come back with a valid opinion. Until then, don't bother replying. You won't get a response.

 

[DEAD7]

 

[OsO]

Ladies, we are looking for volunteers to appear on next week's podcast to respond to the comments on Feminism made by Digga38 and @gonzo8402 during our most recent show.

If you're interested just reply to this thread or inbox @DEAD7 for details on how to join next week's podcast. It's every Wednesday at 10PM EST.

I hope a couple of ya'll come out... @thirdeye @lotuseater80

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

You and most of the black males here seem to be insinuating that these deadbeats are a rare minority amongst you when that's not the case. 1/3 of you will go to prison in your lifetimes. Only 10% of you bother to further your eduction. And still a group of people with those dismal stats make more than black women, and have astronomically more personal wealth than black women due to the rampant sexism in society. The fact is an educated non-jailbird is a rarity. Coupled with the fact that highly intelligent/educated people tend to have less children it's an imaginary world in which a plethora of black children will be made with non-deadbeat black males. There's a reason that black male abandonment of their offspring transcends culture and race (it's seen across the black diaspora AND in the mulatto population), and it has nothing to do with the "poor choices" that black women make.

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

Women know nothing of war or conflict, so they speak of such things as they are existential or irrelevant.

really..?

Violence against women, especially rape, has added its own brand of shame to recent wars. From conflicts in Bosnia and Herzegovina to Peru to Rwanda, girls and women have been singled out for rape, imprisonment, torture and execution. Rape, identified by psychologists as the most intrusive of traumatic events, has been documented in many armed conflicts including those in Bangladesh, Cambodia, Cyprus, Haiti, Liberia, Somalia and Uganda.

Systematic rape is often used as a weapon of war in 'ethnic cleansing'. More than 20,000 Muslim girls and women have been raped in Bosnia since fighting began in April 1992, according to a European Community fact-finding team. Teenage girls have been a particular target in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia, according to The State of the World's Children 1996 report. The report also says that impregnated girls have been forced to bear 'the enemy's' child.

In some raids in Rwanda, virtually every adolescent girl who survived an attack by the militia was subsequently raped. Many of those who became pregnant were ostracized by their families and communities. Some abandoned their babies; others committed suicide.

Sexual violation of women erodes the fabric of a community in a way that few weapons can. Rape's damage can be devastating because of the strong communal reaction to the violation and pain stamped on entire families. The harm inflicted in such cases on a woman by a rapist is an attack on her family and culture, as in many societies women are viewed as repositories of a community's cultural and spiritual values.

In addition to rape, girls and women are also subject to forced prostitution and trafficking during times of war, sometimes with the complicity of governments and military authorities. During World War II, women were abducted, imprisoned and forced to satisfy the sexual needs of occupying forces, and many Asian women were also involved in prostitution during the Viet Nam war. The trend continues in today's conflicts.

The State of the World's Children 1996 report notes that the disintegration of families in times of war leaves women and girls especially vulnerable to violence. Nearly 80 per cent of the 53 million people uprooted by wars today are women and children. When fathers, husbands, brothers and sons are drawn away to fight, they leave women, the very young and the elderly to fend for themselves. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, Myanmar and Somalia, refugee families frequently cite rape or the fear of rape as a key factor in their decisions to seek refuge.

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

I have some authors I brought up on the first page. I also have some PDF material of Bell Hooks and Angela Davis

can I get a pm of those?