Better Villain: Joker or Killmonger? Better Actor in that role: Heath Ledger or Michael B Jordan?

[MostReal]

Heath's Joker = better performance

MBJ's Killmonger = better motivation/villain on paper.

I always said for me what makes a good antagonist is three things...
1. Capability
2. Legitimacy
3. Charisma

Both villains have 1 and 3 but only Killmonger has #2. An antagonist that is privy to the same knowledge, resources, and status as the protagonist makes them compelling. The conflict becomes much deeper than just physical or mental prowess. Just being an anarchist like the Joker is fun to watch but in the end it just makes him a crazy guy who can fukk some shyt up...not a guy who's going to mold the future of nations and the world. Which is what Killmonger was on the road to doing.

Also, recognize that Killmonger's motivation was in some way a twisted form of justice, his way of making the world pay for its treatment of black peoples. So to black people this sounds perfectly legit. However, he lost sight of the human cost, potentially bringing the might of the entire world (and its superheroes) upon one tiny nation. Attrition is still a powerful tool...one that Wakanda actually doesn't have. So in the end his plan was short sighted.

Excellent post I voted the same.
Performance wise Ledger tops him but best character was Killmonger.
But Killmonger was a Villain, just because his cause is righteous doesn't negate all the twisted ways he wanted to accomplish his goal.

 

[Master Teacher]

Overrated? Wtf..Joker is usually voted a top 5 villain on all top 50 lists over the last 20 years.

I'm taking heath ledger in the movies man not the goddamn comic book character I don't read comics

 

[tuckgod]

Not even close.

Jordan/Killmonger was cool, but the performance was nothing like what I expected after all the hype.

 

[Brolic Scholar]

TDK Joker is a far better villain and performance.

Heath Ledger became a whole other person. MBJ became Michael B Jordan with dreads.

Joker took over the crime families, and did his dirt with their money. Corrupted Gotham's beacon of light Harvey Dent, had an elaborate plan to get to Dent and Rachel that was well executed, and mad other shyt.

Killmonger dragged a dead body man miles, fought T'Challa to be king, tried to send Wakandan weapons out to the rest of the world, and then died. His reign on top was short like leprechauns.

Outside of dressing that white woman down on some Hidden Colors shyt, Asking Africans "why ya'll aint come save us?", and the bury me with my ancestor line; Killmonger was on some typical villain shyt.

Bruh, you’re really downplaying what Killmonger did. He found out as a kid that he was royalty and instead of finding his way home, he worked on his revenge for over 20 years. He joined every special force to hone his combat and tactical skills. He then linked up with not just regular criminals, but SUPER VILLAINS to get clout in the underworld and gain Klaw’s trust. He had Klaw thinking he was a goon and crept up on him with chess moves when he needed to harvest him for his body. Imagine... this dude played the fukk outta Klaw when all he needed and wanted was him dead. Then he used his dead body to manipulate all of Wakanda. Bruh... Killmonger was a SUPREME individual.

 

[R=G]

I'm taking heath ledger in the movies man not the goddamn comic book character I don't read comics

Heath is highly rated too..u know that already.

 

[Brandeezy]

Wrong. Go rewatch it.

His goal was to make Batman break his code of non-lethal justice and kill The Joker and let other’s die for him. He failed. Harvey Dent basically killed himself. Batman killed no one in the movie and had The Joker committed rather than executed on the spot for all the violence and chaos he caused.

If you’re going to cite a movie, at least know what the plot was.

did you even watch the movie?

Bats tackles Dent off the ledge at the end and tells Gordon to pin the murder on him because he doesn't want Gotham to see what Joker turned Dent into. Had the Joker committed? What are you talking about, the last we see/hear of Joker is him dangling over the building at the end of TDK then the cops show up.

 

[Wiles]

Killmonger wasn't a villian though

facts

just misguided I wouldof saved cuh but he wanted to go...

 

[Wiles]

Put it like his
Killmonger was a better character on screen
Joker was a better villain
Mbj was the best marvel villain
Heath ledger is still the best acting performance in a hero movie

/thread

 

[Brolic Scholar]

did you even watch the movie?

Bats tackles Dent off the ledge at the end and tells Gordon to pin the murder on him because he doesn't want Gotham to see what Joker turned Dent into. Had the Joker committed? What are you talking about, the last we see/hear of Joker is him dangling over the building at the end of TDK then the cops show up.

Batman didn’t kill The Joker bruh. He always has him committed to Arkham. If Heath Ledger didn’t die he was going to be in the third movie.

Like I said Harvey basically killed himself playing with Gordon’s kids.

 

[Axolotl]

Don’t most villains see their deeds as noble and the heroes deeds as villainous? That goes all the way back to the story of Lucifer being cast from heaven and becoming Satan. Every great villain sees themselves as a counter to some ideology or system they think oppresses them. It’s the paradox of a Utopia. One man’s heaven is another man’s hell. These are old themes that apply to a lot of mythological characters.

Eh no. Most villains know that their goals are primarily selfish and egocentric. Its that they simply dont care or are unable to care, E.g. psychopaths and narcissists. Im assuming the Satan depiction that your describing if from the novel Paradise Lost. The Satan from the Bible, however, is simply an antagonist to God with no real backstory or explanation.

 

[Still FloW]

I'm sorry to say, but no one i think in my opinion is ever touching Heaths performance.. that was a flash in a bottle typa shyt we'll ever see

and this isn't saying Killmonger wasn't dope..

put it this way, can you put any other black actor as Killmonger and get the same results ?? most def

can you do the same with Heath's joker ?? No

and that says a lot for the shyt he brought to the table..

 

[Still FloW]

Bruh, you’re really downplaying what Killmonger did. He found out as a kid that he was royalty and instead of finding his way home, he worked on his revenge for over 20 years. He joined every special force to hone his combat and tactical skills. He then linked up with not just regular criminals, but SUPER VILLAINS to get clout in the underworld and gain Klaw’s trust. He had Klaw thinking he was a goon and crept up on him with chess moves when he needed to harvest him for his body. Imagine... this dude played the fukk outta Klaw when all he needed and wanted was him dead. Then he used his dead body to manipulate all of Wakanda. Bruh... Killmonger was a SUPREME individual.

my nikka we GET IT.. you hella pressed people aint agreeing with your opinion.. no one is saying what YOU think is wrong, we KNOW you think MJB is the best villain stop trying to coerce people to agree with you, we all have our opinions on who we think is better and majority think its Joker.. let it go

 

[Jax]

I loved MBJ Killmonger in Black Panther, matter fact he was the best part about the movie but Heath's Joker is just on another level...

 

[Brolic Scholar]

my nikka we GET IT.. you hella pressed people aint agreeing with your opinion.. no one is saying what YOU think is wrong, we KNOW you think MJB is the best villain stop trying to coerce people to agree with you, we all have our opinions on who we think is better and majority think its Joker.. let it go

fukk outta here. I’m pressed because I’m replying in disagreement? I started the thread so my opinion is pretty obvious.

 

[NinoBrown]

The Joker still won based on the fact Gordan and Batman's victory were built upon a lie. Even though Bats didn't murder anyone, he copped to the murders, which in everyone's eyes is him going off the deep end and being a lunatic like Joker.

This is a testament to the Joker being influential and charming (as most sociopaths are) when he coerced Dent to go over the edge. The hospital scene depicts this perfectly as he risked getting his head blown off or turning Dent, either way, The Joker was going to complete his mission..

Both Joker and Killmonger were anarchists designed to overthrow authority and that is where it ends.

Erik had a legitimate claim to the throne....so his actions were justified...