Better Villain: Joker or Killmonger? Better Actor in that role: Heath Ledger or Michael B Jordan?

[Zero]

not even 24 hours yet

I'm saying

Let this shyt breathe

 

[Master Teacher]

Joker is a better villain

Killmonger motivation was incredible and backstory was well done but at the end of the day he tried to force his way to the throne and it worked temporarily. He didn’t change everything black panther st the end, opened up their borders because heir king didn’t want to make the same mistakes as past Kings and wants to help the world. A the end of dark knight, joker has corrupted the mayor and influenced ever more terrorism in Gotham and likely continued after his capture. Plus killmonger was excellent and is the greatest villain in a marvel film but he still can’t touch the nuisance and lunacy of the joker. Killmonger was more akin to clubber Lang then joker. Real motivation, letting his hatred lead him to success but then his same hatred leading to him losing it all so quickly.

Joker had a goal that he wanted Batman to kill him to flip his entire ideology on its head.

What you said has nothing to do with better villain

also Joker did succeed, the people did not blow up the boat, Batman did not kill him, all crime stopped in Gotham and Harvey's image was not tarnished like he tried to do, did you even see the movie


Joker is an overrated villain because he had zero motivations, he had no plan, even Jack Nickleson's joker had a plan and motivations

 

[Master Teacher]

Killmonger is more comparable to bane than the joker

the joker is just an arsonist with face paint he can't pose a physical threat to batman like bane could

 

[Axolotl]

Killmonger is an Anti-Villain- a villain with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there are evil.

 

[radio rahiem]

killmonger was written better, but joker's performance >*

 

[NinoBrown]

There is a popular theory that Ledger's Joker was an ex-military op/Counter-Terrorist member as he was well-versed in military doctrines and strategy. He was an expert on demolitions, explosives, firearms (his constant use of IEDs as an example), master of interregations (causing Batman to lose his shyt), and most of all charasmatic and influential, even amongst hardened crime lords.

The Joker laughing while falling off the rooftop to his imminent death isn't the actions of a sane individual.

 

[GunRanger]

We all resonate with Killmonger. Don’t even consider him a villain.

He killed his own girl, then choked a gardener.

 

[Breh13]

He killed his own girl, then choked a gardener.

The gardener should listen to his king and she let herself be caught, he needed Klaw to sweeten his entry into Wakanda and he would do anything for that.

Really though, man was going to take it to the colonisers and help his people worldwide. Instead of living in luxury and misplaced isolation. He experienced how some of the diaspora were oppressed while there was a heavily advanced powerful black nation in Africa that could elevate and inspire all of them worldwide.

He let his rage eat at him (all he knew was killing as he explained he was training and waiting for this moment) but he had some salient points aimed at the Wakandans who left him to live through racism and took his only supportive and inspirational link in his life, his father and then just forgot about him.He lost his way somewhat.

They had to make him look crazy bad in parts, I get it.

 

[Brolic Scholar]

Killmonger is an Anti-Villain- a villain with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there are evil.

Don’t most villains see their deeds as noble and the heroes deeds as villainous? That goes all the way back to the story of Lucifer being cast from heaven and becoming Satan. Every great villain sees themselves as a counter to some ideology or system they think oppresses them. It’s the paradox of a Utopia. One man’s heaven is another man’s hell. These are old themes that apply to a lot of mythological characters.

 

[Robbie3000]

i voted for joker because i dont think killmonger was a villain....people are only calling him that cause in these movies you need a hero vs a villain, but if you dont go with that perceived notion, you'll see he's not a villain per say....hell, lupita's character had his same thinking, except she didnt go as far as he did.....yes, his ultimate end goal was extreme, but that was the only part of his plan that was so...he wanted to free oppressed people, that's not a villain...he wanted to help black people that were suffering in the world, that's not a villain....he wanted to reconnect all black people in the world, that's not a villain....his character was more so a magneto type than the joker type...which coincidentally are the 2 characters/actors mbj said he used as inspiration for this performance...

Right. He is a "villain" in the same way Magneto is a "villain".

Magneto/Prof X was based on the dynamic between Malcolm/Martin.

Same as T'Challa/Killmonger.

The difference is the X-Men dynamic was an allegory. In Black Panther it was literal. Retribution on people who have historically wronged black people.

I'm still tripping that this was done in a Disney produced movie.



As far as comparing performances and character, I didn't think anyone could compete with Heath's Joker......until now.

Shouts out to Coogler.

 

[Woodrow]

Killmonger has better writing. Joker was the better villain. Cmon. This ain’t even close, and MBJ killed that shyt.

 

[Neo TheInsurrectionistONE]

havent been to see it yet

and I'm not even gonna read this thread cause I don't want spoilers

accidentally read that one fakkit that said "Killmonger wasn't a villain tho"




but just the fact that Michael B is being mentioned with Heath Ledger is telling me he killed this role.


going to see it Sat night. I'm excited brehs

 

[OmegaK2099]

Joker

 

[R=G]

What you said has nothing to do with better villain

also Joker did succeed, the people did not blow up the boat, Batman did not kill him, all crime stopped in Gotham and Harvey's image was not tarnished like he tried to do, did you even see the movie


Joker is an overrated villain because he had zero motivations, he had no plan, even Jack Nickleson's joker had a plan and motivations

Overrated? Wtf..Joker is usually voted a top 5 villain on all top 50 lists over the last 20 years.

 

[R=G]

Right. He is a "villain" in the same way Magneto is a "villain".

Magneto/Prof X was based on the dynamic between Malcolm/Martin.

Same as T'Challa/Killmonger.

The difference is the X-Men dynamic was an allegory. In Black Panther it was literal. Retribution on people who have historically wronged black people.

I'm still tripping that this was done in a Disney produced movie.



As far as comparing performances and character, I didn't think anyone could compete with Heath's Joker......until now.

Shouts out to Coogler.

There is no writing off of Magneto because when he was created the white world of the 60s wouldn't be able to handle him being a Black man at the time. The genius of Claremont of Claremont fleshing him out is why he is damn near the greatest writer in comic history. Magneto wasn't Black or African American but he lost his family in the most way that can be imagined. Those Germans saw those people like animals..just like Whites have always denounced us as inferior to them.