Better Villain: Joker or Killmonger? Better Actor in that role: Heath Ledger or Michael B Jordan?

[prophecypro]

I've been thinking about how people view Killmonger and while I get why he resonates with a lot of people cause of his motivation, he really went about it not in the greatest way and Im still not sure MBJ bout as much gravitas as I hoped he would ( I guess cause he sounded like himself so its a bit unfair). He was fine but I dont know beyond that.

Im still not sure if he takes the greatest MCU villain role from say Baron Zemo who kind of the had the most diabolical plan and really damaged the heroes for a minute and had them fighting with each other

 

[MartyMcFly]

I've been thinking about how people view Killmonger and while I get why he resonates with a lot of people cause of his motivation, he really went about it not in the greatest way and Im still not sure MBJ bout as much gravitas as I hoped he would ( I guess cause he sounded like himself so its a bit unfair). He was fine but I dont know beyond that.

Im still not sure if he takes the greatest MCU villain role from say Baron Zemo who kind of the had the most diabolical plan and really damaged the heroes for a minute and had them fighting with each other

Baron's plans had more immediate outcomes and he succeeded for the most part. But Eric's motivations are just as understandable and a lot of people will agree with him. I think what makes a great villain is character development, which he got plenty of, and possibly a little empathy. They make you question yourself and your philosophy. Zimo is great but he never made me question whether he was right. I felt for him but ultimately, I would never see myself on his side. There's a part of me, even if it's a small part, that could be on Eric's side, much like Magneto. In fact, he and T'Challa really did have a professor X v Magneto vibe to them.

 

[Json]

The problem is that he's a one-off villain...who's not named Bane. So he was in and out. MBJ was perfect for the role, the story however, isn't going to allow him to "win" passed a certain point. Even when they did it with Bane, they had to literally write a very poor reason as to Batman winning the second 1v1 they have.

I do enjoy the story of wold domination via the history of America....had cacs walking out and I loved it.

It wasn't that he was a one-off to me.

I noticed how the movie felt a lot like Raimi's Spider-Man. The scene at the end with the sunset vs carrying Norman back to his home hiding his secret. The father son stuff.

The emotional bits worked in Raimi's story cause the contrast of Norman to Peter and Harry was upfront in several scenes. Killmonger and his dad had one scene and T'Challa and his dad had two scenes plus Civil War.

T'Challa's anger at leaving the child was the most emotional bit in the movie. He didn't want to acknowledge who Killmonger was and thus continuing the secret. Only until he died and came back did his confront the larger point about being his own king. But him and Killmonger didn't have a range of emotion between them.

 

[MartyMcFly]

It wasn't that he was a one-off to me.

I noticed how the movie felt a lot like Raimi's Spider-Man. The scene at the end with the sunset vs carrying Norman back to his home hiding his secret. The father son stuff.

The emotional bits worked in Raimi's story cause the contrast of Norman to Peter and Harry was upfront in several scenes. Killmonger and his dad had one scene and T'Challa and his dad had two scenes plus Civil War.

T'Challa's anger at leaving the child was the most emotional bit in the movie. He didn't want to acknowledge who Killmonger was and thus continuing the secret. Only until he died and came back did his confront the larger point about being his own king. But him and Killmonger didn't have a range of emotion between them.

Yeah I agree with the last point. He was more angry at his dad and the people who came before him than he was Eric. Eric was just a physical manifestation of everything he came to dislike about Wakanda and its history. Which is great storytelling actually. The villain should magnify something about the hero's journey. Even the Green Goblin (and every spider-man villain really) is what Peter could become or the route he could've gone down, with Doc Ock and Venom and possibly Electro being the best versions of that

 

[George's Dilemma]

Y'all really in here discussing this bullshyt!t. well, see what is wuz-wuz....

 

[El Bombi]

The best Joker actor didn't even play as the Joker IMO.

Jim Carrey was basically the Joker.

 

[Save $ not Hoes]

I was going to say joker. Until I realized I like killmonger more in bp than bp

 

[Save $ not Hoes]

Double post

 

[KillbertArenas]

Joker is a better villain

Killmonger motivation was incredible and backstory was well done but at the end of the day he tried to force his way to the throne and it worked temporarily. He didn’t change everything black panther st the end, opened up their borders because heir king didn’t want to make the same mistakes as past Kings and wants to help the world. A the end of dark knight, joker has corrupted the mayor and influenced ever more terrorism in Gotham and likely continued after his capture. Plus killmonger was excellent and is the greatest villain in a marvel film but he still can’t touch the nuisance and lunacy of the joker. Killmonger was more akin to clubber Lang then joker. Real motivation, letting his hatred lead him to success but then his same hatred leading to him losing it all so quickly.

Joker had a goal that he wanted Batman to kill him to flip his entire ideology on its head.

Nah..

The Joker didnt want Batman to kill him..

He told Batman that he knew that he wouldnt kill him..

The Joker was what his name implies - a "joker" - his sole intention was to never have a true intent - if you thought you had him figured out - then the joke is on you...

Which is why his backstory was never fully developed - who's to say if there was any truth to the stories he shared about his childhood..

 

[MartyMcFly]

Killmonger was planning to kill innocents and children, please stop this good guy talk

Breh killed his girl without blinking too.

As villains/characters they're quite equal in my book. Joker really zoned in on fukking with Batman, Killmonger never really lost sight of his plan for the larger scope .

Heath pushed the acting bit harder than Mike tho. Mike did his thing absolutely but Heath went out of this world with it.

Yeah I think people here are on his side cause they agree with the goal rather than looking at the fact he killed any and everyone in his path, good or bad, and was willing to kill innocents. Dude was heartless

 

[Chris Cool]

joker and it ain't even close. The hype had me thinking killmonger was gonna be on some next level shyt, that nikka was just alright black bane, went out underwhelmingly just like him too.

 

[Izanami]

Heath killed that role. I'm seeing panther on Sunday but that interrogation scene with Jokes and Batman

The Bats vs Joker interrogation scene>>>>>>Killmongers existence an the entire BP film.


I was watching MBJ playing Killmonger but for Ledgers Joker I not once thought about Heath all I saw was the joker. It's not even close. IMO they should've gave MBJ more scenes. He lacked range and needed more time to convince me

not even 24 hours yet

It's really pathetic. People are too dumb and wanna be militant that it clouds their judgement and they ignore Killmonger playing Tchalla and scooping up Klaw from receiving justice (solely to further his position for the throne), first to spill Wakanda blood, defied wakanddan traditions and burned the sacred plants for future generations, attempted to murder Shuri and caused a civil war. This guy is a hero? Dude was villian through and through. His lust for power was appearent when he burned down those sacred plants. I can relate to the reasons for Killmongers ambitions but to ignore the rest is playing yourself.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Heath and Joker got this

 

[CookisaCac]

The best Joker actor didn't even play as the Joker IMO.

Jim Carrey was basically the Joker.

Negged

 

[HHR]

Killmonger was dope, but would've better in a sequel. I wanted more of him, and there's only sp much time you can devote to a villain in the first solo film.