If we can just find a way to ease itBernie still doing the “economic anxiety” shyt?!
Bernie Sanders Makes MSNBC's Jen Psaki Uncomfortable
- Thread starter Prince.Skeletor
- Start date
I thought it was a result of billionaires using big data analytics and media driven campaign to rule up racists and zealots.
Glad to see you supporting incrementalism today
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
I support organizing.I thought it was a result of billionaires using big data analytics and media driven campaign to rule up racists and zealots.
Glad to see you supporting incrementalism today
Organizing is important, but the suggestion you’re making, that things are the way they are in southern states is because of a lack of organizing seems very purposefully disingenuous.
It’s sorta why black folks turn a side eye at the Economic anxiety argument.
The suggestion that if black folks turned away from their blackness and focused solely on economic issues their problems would go away because now you aren’t turning away your racist Allie’s just seems like fantasy.
Now I know you are going to say that’s not what you’re saying, but that’s how the economic anxiety article boils down.
Off topic but no one bat an eye when a Kennedy announced running for president in 2024 election 
Last edited:
Piff Perkins
Veteran
Can't admit the obvious when your entire ideology has no room for racial identity or conflict. Socialism and communism are focused on labor, seizing the means of production, etc. This is why the leading communist thinker of our time recently caught flack for downplaying trans issues in relation to economic struggles. The only conflict they give a shyt about is that between labor and business. Yet it's very clear that some of the biggest driving discussions and debates on the "left" now are based on racial equality, trans rights, women's rights, etc. We've now had multiple elections where anger over abortion access has led to victories for democrats.
If you're Bernie you're looking at this stuff like a worthless distraction from real issues. And for anyone who disagrees with my assessment just look at his last two presidential runs and how he lost. Specifically in the south, with black voters.
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
I never said that. My point is no one is doing anything in these places. There is little to no organizing, and many people—right-wingers and those considering themselves center-left judging by this thread—tell them to stay out.
My first post in this thread was critical of Bernie and “left“ organizations for not organizing in communities and parachuting during election time. That works for the Democratic Party because it's institutional--and many people don't expect much from them--but not if you are running against them.
And, of course, it’s a fantasy. It’s called imagining a better country and world and working toward that instead of accepting that billionaire got this, and we need to follow their whims and not try. And I don’t mean to vote harder, although voting is essential. Voting is one component, as well as community engagement, being activists, organizing, etc.
Organizing, educating, being activist and earning wins is how you push back against the counterrevolution from the right and corporate class.
And, of course, supporting labor efforts and getting workers to organize. I look at Dr. King and see he is the right vision. Not getting elected and collecting checks like many of that generation's people have done since.
I and others have rebutted your assessment a dozen times and you dance over it because it’s inconvenient for you. Ironically, the person addicted to seeing things through one lens is you.
The idea that Bernie Sanders lost the black vote because he didn’t speak enough on black issues, as opposed to him being a curmudgeon who is terrible at retail politics is laughable. Having black surrogates does not equate to speaking truthfully about race issues. Moreover, Sanders is more left on every single issue than the people who he lost to - including race issues and being the first major candidate in 2016 to come around and openly say Black Lives Matter. The truth, you guys dislike Sanders because you dislike the ideology of people further to the left than you. So people like you and @Pressure focus in on the old white man and the results of the election while ignoring all intervening facts as a way to sidestep having to address the actual values of young voters and young voters of color - the core of the progressive movement and your own generation. It’s just confirmation bias being masked as objective analysis.
There’s nothing “cool” about being a centrist or incrementalism if you’re 40 or under. You’re seen as an op and so you focus on the easy op - white people instead of engaging in an actual intellectual discussion. Black voters initially supporting Hillary by 60 points over Obama and then overwhelmingly supported him while he and Hillary had identical policies. The idea that Sanders didn’t win the black vote because he didn’t speak to black issues as opposed to the fact that there is not a black leftist organizing apparatus unlike the centrist apparatus and media centers is quite frankly a childish analysis that would have you fail a political science course. That is @mastermind point - the left does not have an apparatus the way every other political arm in America does and if Sanders was serious about getting his issues on the table he would’ve developed it. Our Revolution is more about finding left-leaning candidates than creating a left-leaning populace. There’s no one who goes into the voting booth and thinks what have the leftists done for me lately. Their base is people who already believe everything they’re selling.
You’ve copied and pasted this post 85 times and been proven wrong 85 times. The Working Families Party and every left-wing political group is more radical on every black issue than centrists who were supported by older black folks. You can’t complain about Defund Police and Abolitionists - sparked by black women — on one end and then turn around and say that the left does not care about racial issues
. There are idiotic white leftists for sure, but they are no more prominent than idiot centrists. But I’m sure those good centrist white folks love us so much. You think that when I used to work and intern for Democrats that I ever once thought that they had a special affinity for people like me?Didn’t even know it was happeningOff topic but no one bat an eye when a Kennedy announced running for president in 2023
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
Piff Perkins
Veteran
I don't dislike Bernie, first off. He's fine, a decent senator. I simply recognize he's unelectable and his approach to politics is largely finished in this country.I and others have rebutted your assessment a dozen times and you dance over it because it’s inconvenient for you. Ironically, the person addicted to seeing things through one lens is you.
The idea that Bernie Sanders lost the black vote because he didn’t speak enough on black issues, as opposed to him being a curmudgeon who is terrible at retail politics is laughable. Having black surrogates does not equate to speaking truthfully about race issues. Moreover, Sanders is more left on every single issue than the people who he lost to - including race issues and being the first major candidate in 2016 to come around and openly say Black Lives Matter. The truth, you guys dislike Sanders because you dislike the ideology of people further to the left than you. So people like you and @Pressure focus in on the old white man and the results of the election while ignoring all intervening facts as a way to sidestep having to address the actual values of young voters and young voters of color - the core of the progressive movement and your own generation. It’s just confirmation bias being masked as objective analysis.
There’s nothing “cool” about being a centrist or incrementalism if you’re 40 or under. You’re seen as an op and so you focus on the easy op - white people instead of engaging in an actual intellectual discussion. Black voters initially supporting Hillary by 60 points over Obama and then overwhelmingly supported him while he and Hillary had identical policies. The idea that Sanders didn’t win the black vote because he didn’t speak to black issues as opposed to the fact that there is not a black leftist organizing apparatus unlike the centrist apparatus and media centers is quite frankly a childish analysis that would have you fail a political science course. That is @mastermind point - the left does not have an apparatus the way every other political arm in America does and if Sanders was serious about getting his issues on the table he would’ve developed it. Our Revolution is more about finding left-leaning candidates than creating a left-leaning populace. There’s no one who goes into the voting booth and thinks what have the leftists done for me lately. Their base is people who already believe everything they’re selling.
You’ve copied and pasted this post 85 times and been proven wrong 85 times. The Working Families Party and every left-wing political group is more radical on every black issue than centrists who were supported by older black folks. You can’t complain about Defund Police and Abolitionists - sparked by black women — on one end and then turn around and say that the left does not care about racial issues
Nor am I going to waste my time with some long retort about an issue that was settled years ago in two presidential elections. You're right, he's a terrible retail politician. And being a terrible retail politician kills presidential campaigns, especially in the south. Not just for democrats/black voters, but republicans/white voters as well. I want to say Romney is the only guy I remember who largely failed in the south and still won a nomination. Retail politics matters throughout the country but in the south it takes on more importance. You can have all the right opinions on paper, but if people don't trust you - OR if people don't believe you are concerned about the things that matter to them - it doesn't matter. That's clearly what happened twice, and you can cry about for another decade but I'll keep saying it. And I'm somebody who can't really stand Hillary, mind you.
November 2022 also ended this conversation for me. An army of leftists giddily awaited a political drubbing that never came because they routinely ignore issues that most Americans give a fukk about. And nearly every noteworthy election since then - most recently the Wisconsin Supreme Court race - has had similar results for the same reasons. And the same thing is likely going to happen next year, with Trump as the likely nominee.
Here we go for the 100th time. Someone say something about Bernie or Kd and it’s lit 
CEO of Morgan Industries
Superstar
This is one of those conversations where I think people are talking past one another a little bit and are both essentially right. People on the political left do, in fact, fail to do the grassroots stuff that right-wingers do. For example, there are so many school boards run by knuckle-dragging right-wingers. Where are the left-wing school boards at in comparison? Leftists run ineffectually for the presidency or maybe the Senate, but they ignore the city councils, school boards, etc., at the local level that they can use to build an actual base of power where they can get stuff done.
On the other hand, that grassroots organizing is not going to convince most voters, who know perfectly well that they are trading economic safety for racism, homophobia, etc. They've made that calculus and are glad dying broke and hungry if that means a black person also dies broke and hungry along with them. Organizing isn't to capture the voters who love 'cism. It's to keep left-wing voters engaged and empowered and to push back locally against conservative power.
Basically, everyone has great points and I agree with all of you.
On the other hand, that grassroots organizing is not going to convince most voters, who know perfectly well that they are trading economic safety for racism, homophobia, etc. They've made that calculus and are glad dying broke and hungry if that means a black person also dies broke and hungry along with them. Organizing isn't to capture the voters who love 'cism. It's to keep left-wing voters engaged and empowered and to push back locally against conservative power.
Basically, everyone has great points and I agree with all of you.
I’m actually very involved and was involved around Bernie’s campaign here by proxy of having a large amount of crossover with Warren as well as my work with LEAD NC. The reality is much of the organizing that happened on a local level reflected what you saw from a national level.
Unfortunately, that message ran flat for black southern voters. In fact, I think the data and Bernie’s own admission agrees with what we’re saying — he did not activate a revolution of young voters.
If you were capable of doing an honest post-Mortem you would also come to and accept that conclusion.
@No1 already tore you a new one, and you've been embarrassed on this point before, but let me just pile on.
Anyone who claims that socialism/communism is an ideology with no room for racial identity and conflict is ignorant. The vast majority of race activists in the last 130 years of American history were socialists or communists. That was true in the early 1900s, that was true during and after the CRM, that's even true now. Show up at any radical racial justice group and ask how many of them are socialists.
And the idea that Joe fukking Biden won because he's ideologically more comfortable with pro-black issues.
