Are we gonna pretend Drake hasn't surpassed Kanye?

[Wacky D]

So you say that Late Registration or MBDTF arent classics? Even 808s could be called a classic considering how influential it has been

nowhere near classic

 

[SirBiatch]

aight @SirBiatch I'll bite. Explain how Kanye has no classics? To me, he has 4 classics (College Dropout, Late Registration, Graduation, MBDTF) With those four you have influence(created the blueprint for the modern "everyman, suburban, mainstream rapper" (ie. Drake, Big Sean, Kid Cudi, J Cole, Wale, even Kendrick to a certain extent), influential production (Chipmunk soul with College Dropout, stadium music with Graduation), classic songs, "Through the Wire, Jesus Walks, Good Life, Flashing Lights, Stronger, Can't Tell Me Nothing, etc.), critical acclaim, cultural impact(you can argue LR, Graduation, MBDTF were loved by the critics more than the people but you can't do that with College Dropout. The people loved that album. That's the album that most people who don't follow critics reviews and all that other shyt fukk with the most.) commercial success, cohesiveness(all of the albums had a central theme and sound that they stuck to), and innovation.

Omnipresence doesn't make an album classic. REPLAY VALUE does. That's the number one factor.

None of Kanye's albums have replay value. Unless of course you're a Ye stan. None of the albums have amazing out-of-this-world beats (some decent beats here and there though) and Ye has a woat voice.

All those tracks you mentioned are "memorable" mostly because of hype/omnipresence. They're not classic in the same way "Represent" or "Mighty Healthy" is classic. Totally different echelon where the beats/voice/rhymes are out of this world. Of course someone will respond with the 'you stuck in da past' bullshyt Yet the irony is that Ye stans are always trying to shove Ye into that Nas/Mobb Deep/Wu/GOAT contender echelon.

If you influence transcendent artists, then I'll give you the influence award. Rakim inspired Nas. Nas inspired Ghostface and others in that period.

Ye influenced Fake, Weak Sean, shyt Cudi, and K Dot Minaj.

Don't care about hype/critical acclaim from questionable critics outside the culture. e.g. GQ, Forbes, Rolling Stone, etc

I say all of this as a dude who thinks Drake currently makes better music than Kanye and who actually agrees with you that he has surpassed him at this point(the whole ghostwriter thing is a wash since Ye' uses ghostwriters to). But your statement about Kanye having no classics strikes me as a bit gimmicky and "clickbaitish." And you haven't said anything in this thread to back up that claim besides smileys and accusing people of being biased and having no argument. You made the argument, the burden of proof is on you to back it up

I've explained why Kanye has no classics lots of times in other threads. You already know this, which is why you stalk me among others. But now you're pretending like I haven't already covered that topic

In fact, a Coli thread was made on this subject and it was declared that Ye had no classics. And that's on the Coli that's infested with KTT stans Imagine in the real world where heads don't really fukk with Ye like that.

I bet after this post you'll still accuse me of not providing any reasoning for Ye's lack of classics despite me saying in this very post that Ye's shyt doesn't have replay value

 

[Wacky D]

people who say Kanye has classics are either:

1.) young & missed out on the real classics
OR
2.) soft and are happy to get a hot album out of a soft rapper
OR
3.) biased towards his early sound(i.e. native tongue fanatics)

 

[onelastdeath]

What a shytty thread

 

[Drew Wonder]

Omnipresence doesn't make an album classic. REPLAY VALUE does. That's the number one factor.

None of Kanye's albums have replay value. Unless of course you're a Ye stan. None of the albums have amazing out-of-this-world beats (some decent beats here and there though) and Ye has a woat voice.

You can make this argument about any artist. Paid in Full is obviously a classic album but do you think anyone except the most diehard Rakim fans are bumping that heavily NOW in 2016? Same can be said for the Wu, Tribe, Outkast, etc. You'res saying his albums don't have replay value as someone whose not even a fan of Kanye, let alone a diehard stan, so how does your argument have any credibility as being objective in the first place when any person who doesn't fukk with an artist can say that about the artist they don't fukk with.

All those tracks you mentioned are "memorable" mostly because of hype/omnipresence. They're not classic in the same way "Represent" or "Mighty Healthy" is classic. Totally different echelon where the beats/voice/rhymes are out of this world. Of course someone will respond with the 'you stuck in da past' bullshyt Yet the irony is that Ye stans are always trying to shove Ye into that Nas/Mobb Deep/Wu/GOAT contender echelon.

Different sound, different goals artistically sure. I don't see how that discredits them as classic records though.

If you influence transcendent artists, then I'll give you the influence award. Rakim inspired Nas. Nas inspired Ghostface and others in that period.

Ye influenced Fake, Weak Sean, shyt Cudi, and K Dot Minaj.

Influence is influence. Don't move the goal posts.

Don't care about hype/critical acclaim from questionable critics outside the culture. e.g. GQ, Forbes, Rolling Stone, etc

Fair enough. Though as I already explained, College Dropout was the "people's classic."

I've explained why Kanye has no classics lots of times in other threads. You already know this, which is why you stalk me among others. But now you're pretending like I haven't already covered that topic

Nygga, I don't know, which is why I asked you. You made the damn thread and expect no one to question your reasoning just because you made some other ones in the past? Not everyone here is tracking your every damn move bruh. Stalk you? Get over yourself You keep saying you only keep it hip hop so I engage you on some hip hop discussion shyt and you wanna resort to that bullshyt.

 

[Drew Wonder]

people who say Kanye has classics are either:

1.) young & missed out on the real classics
OR
2.) soft and are happy to get a hot album out of a soft rapper
OR
3.) biased towards his early sound(i.e. native tongue fanatics)

The shyt you come up with to justify why people fukk with music/artists that you don't fukk with is absolutely hilarious

 

[Wacky D]

The shyt you come up with to justify why people fukk with music/artists that you don't fukk with is absolutely hilarious

I f*ck with the good Kanye albums actually.

I just know whats what - generally speaking.

it sounds like you think Kanye has classics and you realize that you fall into at least one of those categories that I mentioned.

 

[SirBiatch]

You can make this argument about any artist. Paid in Full is obviously a classic album but do you think anyone except the most diehard Rakim fans are bumping that heavily NOW in 2016? Same can be said for the Wu, Tribe, Outkast, etc. You'res saying his albums don't have replay value as someone whose not even a fan of Kanye, let alone a diehard stan, so how does your argument have any credibility as being objective in the first place when any person who doesn't fukk with an artist can say that about the artist they don't fukk with.

There you go trying to force Ye into the Rakim/Wu/Tribe echelon. Predictable

"If Kanye aint classic, then nothing you think is classic is classic."

Microphone Fiend is a better song than anything Ye has ever made as a solo artist. You don't have to be a Nas stan to find Illmatic amazing. That's the difference.

You have to be a Yeezy stan to even think his albums are dope, not to talk about classic.

Influence is influence. Don't move the goal posts.

Don't be desperate and naive. What you influence obviously matters. Which is why we even talk about influence.

Fair enough. Though as I already explained, College Dropout was the "people's classic."

no it wasn't.

It hit big among the young and poppy crowd but heads overall never looked at it as classic. I was in college when College Dropout came. We weren't bumping it like that. Middle school and high school cats were big on it, being young and impressionable.

Heads of all ages consider Nas/Wu/Mobb Deep's music to be classic. Whether you're 20 or 60. Something to think about

 

[Wacky D]

Come back to me when Drake has something as good as this:

LOL.

this is terrible.

I see what you tried to do. post both an abstract & spiritual song and hope nobody feels comfortable critiquing it.

 

[southpawstyle]

good thread, ms. elaine. I learned a lot.

 

[SirBiatch]

good thread, ms. elaine. I learned a lot.

@Ms. Elaine

 

[Drew Wonder]

There you go trying to force Ye into the Rakim/Wu/Tribe echelon. Predictable

"If Kanye aint classic, then nothing you think is classic is classic."

Microphone Fiend is a better song than anything Ye has ever made as a solo artist. You don't have to be a Nas stan to find Illmatic amazing. That's the difference.

You have to be a Yeezy stan to even think his albums are dope, not to talk about classic.

Nas imo is the GOAT rapper and Illmatic is the GOAT hip hop album, but if you're not a fan of that early to mid 90s NY sound(which plenty of people aren't) that album won't have any replay value for you. Shyt, for a lot of people It Was Written has more replay value because the sound is less distinctly NY. But that doesn't take away from Illmatic's classic nature. The point is, you can't make the replay value argument if you're not even a fan of the artist in the first place.

Don't be desperate and naive. What you influence obviously matters. Which is why we even talk about influence.

Biggie influenced Guerilla Black, Jay influenced Sicario, 2pac influenced Lil Zane. It's unfair to hold who an artist influences against them. You're also judging artists who already have established legacies against artists who are still currently forging their own.

no it wasn't.

It hit big among the young and poppy crowd but heads overall never looked at it as classic. I was in college when College Dropout came. We weren't bumping it like that. Middle school and high school cats were big on it, being young and impressionable.

This will just end up just turning into a "my group of friends fukked with it/didn't fukk with it" argument so I'll leave this one alone.

Heads of all ages consider Nas/Wu/Mobb Deep's music to be classic. Whether you're 20 or 60. Something to think about

I agree with you on this. Imo, Kanye's music hasn't touched that timeless quality of the Nas/Wu/Mobb and he's in no way shape or form seeing them lyrically. But I also say this as someone who has a heavy bias towards the early to mid 90s NY sound. Something to think about as well.

 

[Wacky D]

you gotta be grading on a serious 2000s gateway curve if you think Kanye has classic albums.

 

[Pifferry]

LOL.

this is terrible.

I see what you tried to do. post both an abstract & spiritual song and hope nobody feels comfortable critiquing it.

No I posted this song because it's almost universally agreed upon as amazing including by people including those I know aren't Kanye stans and heavily critique him
I also picked it because it was recent which means he's still putting out quality.
I love the song, so I picked it, no different than if I would have picked out Runaway or Can't Tell Me Nothing or something.
What you think people are pretending to like Ultra Light Beam?

 

[Pifferry]

you gotta be grading on a serious 2000s gateway curve if you think Kanye has classic albums.

Nope i'm grading it on a Kanye makes amazing timeless music curve, there's no reason why I can't look at his catalog and put any given album against whichever 90's "real hip hop" record you find precious.