Are Africans and people of African descent who aren't AA black?

[Bawon Samedi]

I love when @IllmaticDelta and @Diasporan Royalty start discussing things....

So informative...

I be sitting here reading like...

Thx


Cant debate to my best cus my keyboards are screwed up

 

[IllmaticDelta]

You missed wat I was getting at

nah...I see where you were going but I just see it as a bad excuse

 

[Bawon Samedi]

nah...I see where you were going but I just see it as a bad excuse

Lets agree-disagree

Like I said cant debate at my best rit now look at my typing rit now

 

[AlainLocke]

Thx


Cant debate to my best cus my keyboards are screwed up

I haven't read back far enough to see what the disagreement is...

I think what you are guys are discussing is the origin of Blackness and the term Black and when it was invented...

I always had the understanding that White people invented "Black" people by comparing their appearance to our appearance...and came up with names like the whole Ethiopia thing....

And then with the Trans-Atlantic slave trade and the USA slave laws where the status of the mother determines the status of the child, that Blackness became more ancestry based...

But @IllmaticDelta seemed to have introduced some evidence that even before White people African people differentiated themselves amongst the darker versions of themselves....

 

[Laidbackman]

How did we get stuck identifying with a name that you will never see on any globe or map.

 

[Yo Mama]

I have never met a black person who is African (from diferent countries) refer to themselves as anything but black.

In Zimbabwe when you fill out forms.

Race - black.
Nationality - Zimbabwean.

I have to assume any African person who is in a western country who suddenly denounces their blackess is either dumb, confused or has visa issues.

A few years ago I was in the UK and this guy was selling sneakers (high street stall). He asked me where I'm from and I said Zimbabwe. He was elated and started telling me how every other African he spoke to always claims to be black British or from the Caribbean... Probably visa/stay issues.

The guy with the shoe stall was from Libya.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

Jesus Christ! Haitians were CLEARLY subscribing to the phenotypic version of black. Hell even today not all people of African descent subscribe to the DNA AA version of black.

To be honest no one has an agreed definition to what "black" means.

I KNOW THAT! Which is what I been screaming. I said AAs created a new and improved version of black which is "genetic based!" And NOT based on dated physical anthropology.

HOWEVER.... What IM saying is that NOT EVERY person of African descent goes by the "updated" version of black. So there is no universal agreement to what black means. However I do agree the AA version of black is becoming more popular.

But still black as a racial concept predates AAs.

My problem is that SOME people think Non-AAs are retarded and had to be taught they were black.

This is exactly one of the main reasons I stay out of these conversations

When I discus these things I try to make a clear distinction between....

1. Institutional policy/laws
What does the...

• U.S. Census dept
• Office of Budget Management
• African Union
• UNESCO
• U.N.
• doctors form
• school enrollment forms
• etc etc etc

...mean when they refer to someone as African, African American, Black, etc etc?

2. Individual points of view.
Socially & historically how did those terms come to be adopted?
(It's only at this point where I start to give weight to what individuals have said "historically".)


For instance in my post Why did they start calling us "African American"? I pointed out historically how people were using the terms "African American", black, colored, negro. But only in the service of understanding how the term "African American" became institutionalized in local, state, federal forms and demographic data.

Now you can say "well (african american, black, etc.) means (this) to me not what you said" and I'm like O.K.
@IllmaticDelta has a lot of different accounts of how people refer to themselves and I'm like O.K.
...and when they go fill out a U.S. form saying your Kenyan, Nigerian, Haitian, etc. they are going to group you with all the other "African Americans" or "Blacks"


Definition of Race Categories Used in the 2010 Census
“Black or African American” refers to a person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa. It includes people who indicated their race(s) as “Black, African Am., or Negro” or reported entries such as African American, Kenyan, Nigerian, or Haitian.
https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf



So conversations like this end up turning into

• Well I think it should be this...
• Well I think it should be that...
• Tit for tat contests...

Personally if that view point isn't institutionalized then cool the rhetoric(doesn't mean stop the convo, but lower the weight of it).

EXAMPLE: - Panafricanism
Not everyone agrees with or even understands panafricanism ...and if you ask 10 people you could that many different variations. All said and done pan-Africanism is institutionalized in the form of the A.U., African economic blocks, etc

I'm not going to have a long form dialog about the definition of panafricanism over some random dude in Gabon, Trinidad, France, Detroit, etc not agreeing with panafricanism or some random is arguing against panafricanism because the British used Fante, Hausa, Mande, Caribbean troops, and Swahili coast Africans to attack & break the Ashanti in the 1800's.


Again the questions are...

1. What is the institutionalized form of the term in question?
2. How did that particular form of the term come to be institutionalized as opposed to others?

While the etymology of terms hold a value in and of them selves the way coli approaches it is typically just arguing in circles.

 

[The Fade]

I thought continental Africans commonly referred to black people as being different from them

Saw that Yvette video where this African chick kept referring black people as "they" as in CAs are not black

 

[Laidbackman]

So the only two races in the world that identify by color are African Americans or Africans, and Europeans...who didn't start identifying as White until they got to America, and started Black slavery. Something sounds fowl here, and it's obvious the world wants to keep us identifying as Black for their own benefit. Anybody who can't see through that by now is chasing their own tail.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

I thought continental Africans commonly referred to black people as being different from them

Saw that Yvette video where this African chick kept referring black people as "they" as in CAs are not black

Ok, so lets say that is true.
Matter a fact lets say you came across 200 Africans from the continent who said that....
so what?
Now you could say that those 200 represent a sampling of other continental Africans(which would be reasonable to assume).




But to say I came across 1 ...hell 200 continental Africans who said some slick shyt and assume....

I thought continental Africans commonly referred to black people as being different from them

Saw that Yvette video where this African chick kept referring black people as "they" as in CAs are not black

...your taking it a bit far bruh.



The same diversity of thought you find between AA you'll find elsewhere. I've had great conversations with people on the continent and I've had hellish convos where I find myself defending Africa/African history against misconceptions from other Africans. I'm talking silly shyt like "Africans didn't have clothes, houses before Europeans came". Hell I remember this one Hausa from a previous forum who didn't want to be lumped with other Africans or "black people" and thinks that everyone should only identify with their ethnic group.( @Diasporan Royalty probably knows who I'm referring to) That said, I suggest you don't get hung up on wild shyt you here from any one person.

In closing it's not enough to know a thing(or what someone said), just like it isn't enough to have fresh food. If you fail in properly interpreting what you know it'll ultimately be just as useless as if you under/overcooked your food.





The interpretation of knowledge is just as important as the acquisition of knowledge.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

So the only two races in the world that identify by color are African Americans or Africans, and Europeans...who didn't start identifying as White until they got to America, and started Black slavery. Something sounds fowl here, and it's obvious the world wants to keep us identifying as Black for their own benefit. Anybody who can't see through that by now is chasing their own tail.

(Time stamped for convenience) ​

 

[10bandz]

only broke nikkas spend hours and hours debating about and trying to tell other black people they aren't black

@ somebody who is AA and Somalian being called a "tragic mulatto"

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

only broke nikkas spend hours and hours debating about and trying to tell other black people they aren't black

@ somebody who is AA and Somalian being called a "tragic mulatto"

That shyt had me gone bruh

 

[StretfordRed]

only broke nikkas spend hours and hours debating about and trying to tell other black people they aren't black

@ somebody who is AA and Somalian being called a "tragic mulatto"

The thread title was excused by the OP

This has to be THE most pointless and probably stupid debate. OP should have smacked someone

Btw: as per official legal status I am “Black British”

 

[intruder]

. A few poster's took the stance that the term black is solely in reference to AA's and that only AA's were black.

Dumbest shyt ever, period.

I'm haitian. I knew I was black way before I ever knew African-Americans existed. The first time I ever met an African-American I was probably 8 or 9 y/o and for me to hear English words come out of a black persons mouth was like


By then you're already deep into your studies of history there which clearlyly stated we were noir(black) while making sure to distinguish between Taïno-Arawaks, blacks, mulattos and whites.