American-Liberians=/=African-American

IllmaticDelta

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You don't wanna quote "The Root" and HLG. He's so lost... The number of real Black "negro" slaveowners are so low. And it's so many factors those who were did so.



The quote was from John Hope Franklin

The Free Negro in North Carolina, 1790-1860

O3wx5u8.jpg



but the main reason for posting all of this is to help give context to the world those particular free people of color from the south lived in/came from

The Americo-Liberians created communities and social infrastructure closely based on what they knew - American society. They spoke English, and built churches and houses in styles resembling those they were familiar with in the southern United States. Although they never constituted more than five percent of the population of Liberia, they controlled key resources that allowed them to dominate the local native peoples: access to the ocean, modern technical skills, literacy and higher levels of education, and valuable relationships with many United States institutions, including the American government.[13]

Reflecting the system of racial segregation in the United States, the Americo-Liberians created a cultural and racial caste system with themselves at the top and indigenous Liberians at the bottom
 
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IllmaticDelta

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Ok - we all from Africa. Does that make us African? Shared lineages and being connected through them doesn't mean the same.

the free people of color on USA soil and enslaved ones are/were connected...not at all similar to people from an entire other landmass/nation

Most AA/DOS did/do not have free people of color in their tree or had any of their ancestors become free. They were enslaved from day one and stayed that way till 1865.

I already touched on this

American-Liberians=/=African-American
 

Bawon Samedi

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The distinction can still be made today when it comes to AAs and even blacks in other nations being of the “same ethnic group” but having different experiences even if all those experiences have the same root cause of systematic white supremacy.

The funny thing is for a posters who quote Yvette Carnell so much this is one of the core things she and many others address when it comes to the experiences of say P Diddy and Oprah being vastly different than the average person even though they are both AA. Because of this you can’t live viciously through other people because they are part of your ethnic group (i.e because Oprah is a billionaire that means AAs are doing good in america) AND you cannot make the assumption that they understand your circumstances even though both of you are victims of systematic white supremacy.

This doesn't make sense. The reason people argue those free colors and different from modern AAs is because as a collective they left and skipped through the majority of AA history. Whereas P Diddy's and Oprah's descendants DID. We're not just talking about experience but also history which forms the AA identity.
 

Poitier

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this 100%....to me it's faulty logic to try to separate free people color from the directly enslaved because both were actually tied together. Now, we can acknowledge that they had different experiences because those are FACTS but to say they weren't connected even IN THAT TIME is false. Aframs of today are combinations former slave lineages intertwined with free people of color lineages.

Yeah, Free People are vital parts of AA history in places like NY, Baltimore, NOLA, the Carolinas, Virginia, Spanish Florida.
A lot of them came from the Islands or Europe but there were no Caribbean or Negropean identities at that time and they assimilated.
 

Apollo Creed

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The quote was from John Hope Franklin

The Free Negro in North Carolina, 1790-1860

O3wx5u8.jpg



but the main reason for postings all of this is to help give context to the world those particular free people of color from the south lived in/came from

They also brought the AME church and Prince hall freemasonery. Are these not AA created institutions?
 

Apollo Creed

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This doesn't make sense. The reason people argue those free colors and different from modern AAs is because as a collective they left and skipped through the majority of AA history. Whereas P Diddy's and Oprah's descendants DID. We're not just talking about experience but also history which forms the AA identity.

How can you say skipped events when literally the institution of chattle slavery was a definitive event in AA history? Without that event we would not be having this discussion because people would be using their PRE SLAVERY Ethnic definitions.

:mjlol:

Did people who died before the time you want to piggy back on “skip out” on events too?

This is laughable at this point and disrespectful.
 

Apollo Creed

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The fact of the matter is you can call yourself whatever you want the point stands is there were people who were descendants of slaves from america who went to Liberian and Sirerra leone.

This can not be refuted.

Nobody has ever made the statement that Americo Liberians are AAs, it doesnt even make sense logically.

So once again what are people even trying to argue?
 

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They also brought the AME church and Prince hall freemasonery. Are these not AA created institutions?

I have already talked about them. They were successful free people of color and slave owners - mostly mulatto.

To me they we're not the same or practiced the same spirituality and/or religion as those who were enslaved.

Remember, when that church was established the majority of black people in America were enslaved and weren't allowed to read or write. They had church in the woods secretly at night on a plantation --and without a bible in hand.
 
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Apollo Creed

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Lol so what are people even debating at this point?

If people want to debate the status of people in America after 1865 that has nothing to do with any other country other than The USA.

Nobody has ever stated that Americo liberians are the same as AAs. That stated the fact that many of them shared the same ancestors simply cant be refuted. If it wasnt the case then there would be no AA influence present in those countries. The AME and Prince hall free masonary would not exist on those countries. American south Architecture wouldnt exist in those countries.
 

IllmaticDelta

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the free people of color on USA soil and enslaved ones are/were connected...not at all similar to people from an entire other landmass/nation


The Black Yankees (free people of color in the north)


The newly formed Black Yankee ethnicity of the early 1800s differed from today’s African-American ethnicity. Modern African-American ethnic traits come from a post-bellum blending of three cultural streams: the Black Yankee ethnicity of 1830, the slave traditions of the antebellum South, and the free Creole or Mulatto elite traditions of the lower South. Each of the three sources provided elements of the religious, linguistic, and folkloric traditions found in today’s African-American ethnicity.30

Black Yankee ethnicity was also not the same thing as membership in America’s Black endogamous group. The difference between Black Yankee ethnicity and Black endogamous group membership is that ethnicity is to some extent voluntary whereas which side of the color line you are on is usually involuntary. Mainstream America assigns to the Black side of the endogamous color line people of many different ethnicities whose only common trait is a dark-brown skin tone. These include West Indians, some East Indians (sometimes), recent African immigrants, and (until recently) African-looking Muslims and Hispanics. Finally, the endogamous color line was imposed in 1691 but the earliest evidence of Black Yankee ethnicity dates from the mid 1700s.

Although less wealthy than the Louisiana Creoles, the Black Yankees had developed a strong supportive culture that could withstand the buffeting of social upheaval. They were usually ostracized from mainstream society due to the endogamous color line. According to contemporary accounts, they responded with grace and dignity, making a virtue of their separation. It was not uncommon to see lines of quiet, well-behaved children following their parents to Sunday service with the gravitas and pietas of Roman elders. Their preachers taught that they were put on earth to be tested.31 Their lot was to serve as example to the white folks of how civilized Christians behave.

Most Black Yankees distinguished themselves from slaves—indeed many families had no history of slavery but descended from indentured servants. Nevertheless, many were active contributors to and activists in the abolition movement. This is in strong contrast to the biracial elite of the Gulf coast and Latin America, who owned slaves and defended slavery as a noble institution.32 The contrast was due to the lack of an independent Black ethnicity among Hispanic planters of part-African ancestry, and this lack was due, in turn, to the absence of an endogamous color line.

In some ways, Black Yankee culture (religion, language, music, dance, food, costume) was indistinguishable from that of White Yankees. For example, the boisterous interactive style of many African-American church services today would have been alien to them, since it originated in the slaveholding South. Daniel A. Payne was a Black Yankee, a career AME minister in Philadelphia. He was a sympathizer of the Underground Railroad, so its organizers asked him to preach to a group of newly escaped slaves. His diary reports:

After the sermon, they formed a ring, and with coats off sung, clapped their hands and stamped their feet in a most ridiculous and heathenish way. I requested that the pastor go and stop their dancing. At his request they stopped their dancing and clapping of hands, but remained singing and rocking their bodies to and fro.33

Although the endogamous color line was stricter in the antebellum North than in the antebellum South, it was less strict in 1850 and 1860 than in 1970 and 1980.34 The children of interracial marriages in the Northeast were usually census-reported as “Negroes” rather than as “Mulattoes.” This resembles today’s customs and contrasts with the more permeable color lines of the lower South. According to Joel Williamson, “In 1850 in the five states of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin, mulattoes actually outnumbered blacks by 24,000 to 22,000, while in the older-settled New England and Middle Atlantic states blacks outnumbered mulattoes by about three to one.”35


The Black Yankees set many of the patterns of modern African-American life. They developed the supportive church-centered social structure found in African-American communities today
. Long before the South was segregated, they faced isolation and cyclical rejection by mainstream society. They were also the first to articulate the dilemma that continues to occupy Black thinkers to this day: integration versus separatism.

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On the interactions between the Black Yankees and Southern Plantation Blacks:

The aftermath of the Civil War dramatically accelerated the process of cultural osmosis. In the same way that Northern entrepreneurs (carpetbaggers) flooded the Reconstruction South seeking business opportunities, tens of thousands of Black Yankees left homes and careers and also migrated to the defeated South. They built the schools, printed the newspapers, and opened the businesses that taught the newly freed to flourish as Americans.68 Joel Williamson particularly distinguishes between Northern Black Yankees and Southern former slaves, especially among former Union soldiers:

The channels though which mulatto leadership moved from the North to the lower South are clearly visible. Many of the migrants, women as well as men, came as teachers sponsored by a dozen or so benevolent societies, arriving in the still turbulent wake of Union armies. Others came to organize relief for the refugees…. Still others… came south as religious missionaries… Some came south as business or professional people seeking opportunity on this… special black frontier. Finally, thousands came as soldiers [Black Yankees in regiments that served in the South], and when the war was over, many of [their] young men remained there or returned after a stay of some months in the North to complete their education.69

Culture clash made for bumpy times for some of the volunteers. Slave religious services were characterized by the ring-shout ceremony. In a ring-shout, as Daniel Payne had noticed,70 the outdoor congregation shuffles, dances, claps, and sings as they circle the preacher, loudly responding to his or her every utterance. Although the ring-shout is ostensibly Christian, the old Yoruba orixas Exu, Ogun, Xango, Oxossi often make an appearance by taking possession of a dancer, especially in the Sea Islands and in Louisiana bayous.71 Black Yankees, in contrast, were staid Methodist Episcopalians. Slave music had exceedingly simple melodies and harmony was unknown, but the music gloried in dazzling rhythmic syncopation. Black Yankee music was characterized by the subtle and changing harmonies of Anglican hymns and a steady British beat.72

Many AME ministers sent south insisted on an educated ministry, undercutting the authority of self-taught slave-born preachers, and demanded more sedate services than new freedmen were used to. “The old people were not anxious to see innovations introduced in religious worship,” one wrote home, telling how a Black Yankee preacher was mocked as a “Presbyterian” by his new flock.73 Nevertheless, the overall attitude of the Black Yankees reflected solidarity with their charges. New England Black Yankee teacher Virginia C. Greene wrote home, “I class myself with the freedmen. Though I have never known servitude they are in fact my people.”74 Some of the southbound migrants even married white southern Republicans during Congressional Reconstruction. Carrie Highgate, a Black Yankee schoolteacher from New York married White Mississippi state senator Albert T. Morgan.75

Essays on the U.S. Color Line » Blog Archive » The Color Line Created African-American Ethnicity in the North
 

Apollo Creed

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Plenty of people say "look at what AAs did in Liberia."
No one has to make that up :mjlol:

Same folks who want to get all nuanced about Black immigrants in America being a fringe representation of the greater African population :sas2:

Quote those people then. They are either mispeaking or dont know history.

Plenty of people say AAs are Hebrew Israelite Moors and slave ships never existed too.
 

IllmaticDelta

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Lol so what are people even debating at this point?

If people want to debate the status of people in America after 1865 that has nothing to do with any other country other than The USA.

Nobody has ever stated that Americo liberians are the same as AAs. That stated the fact that many of them shared the same ancestors simply cant be refuted. If it wasnt the case then there would be no AA influence present in those countries. The AME and Prince hall free masonary would not exist on those countries. American south Architecture wouldnt exist in those countries.

pretty much this...

Plenty of people say "look at what AAs did in Liberia."
No one has to make that up :mjlol:

yup

Quote those people then. They are either mispeaking or dont know history.

Plenty of people say AAs are Hebrew Israelite Moors and slave ships never existed too.


tons of people bring that afram/liberia thing up:mjgrin:
 
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