Yahoo Sports: “A closer look at MJ’s 1988 DPOY raises questions about its validity”

[fifth column]

Don't forget the ones who called him a GOAT because he's the leading scorer in NBA history, or the ones who called him a GOAT cause he led all players in all five box score stats for an entire Finals, or the ones who called him a GOAT because he made the All-NBA team for 20 consecutive years (youngest-ever selection AND oldest-ever selection), or the ones who called him a GOAT because he plays all five positions, or the ones who called him a GOAT because he's made the Finals with some of the worst rosters ever (three times), or the ones who called him a GOAT because he's the best all-around player ever, or the ones who who called him a GOAT because he has the most playoff wins ever, or the most playoff game-winners ever, or the most playoff buzzer-beaters ever.

It's absolutely disgusting how they seem to keep coming up with more and more of these every year.

So why don’t you call Lebron the goat over MJ then?

 

[Everythingg]

You lied you said the games were easily available online and the reporter cherry picked the games he wanted your theory was fiction you made up in your mind. That tells me youll say anything to defend a point whether it’s a lie or not. If something comes out disputing what the reporter said I’ll take it into consideration. For now pippen said it before it was reported so i made a logical decision to believe the reporter

Retro Junk (Including Classic NBA)

This page features classic NBA contest, and a few television shows and clips from yesteryear. Enjoy!

www.youtube.com

Lazily looked it up and this channel has 3-5 home Bulls game that could’ve been used. But that’s besides the point. You said a lot of players had home cooked stats so why was MJ singled out with Lebrons name thrown in if it wasn’t to bring MJ down a notch and boost Lebron? You keep dodging this

And I’ll defend a lie? This same Tomcat character once presented stats to say Kobe was an overrated clutch shooter but when those same stats showed Rudy Gay bring the best in the clutch refused to call him the best or over Dirk(who I think was second). His whole goal of presenting the stats was to down Kobe and put Dirk over him but on the other hand wouldnt put Rudy over Dirk even tho the same stats he presented showed he was. You get it? He presented stats to push a certain agenda. Just as he did here

I did already.

How many steals did he average at home and how many did he average when away?

Notice that MJ stans have been reduced to

Err no. Unlike you I don’t fan out over other grown men. This is more about Klutch agents/groupies denigrating the past to prop Lebron up. On a greater scale it’s about how the media pushes propaganda to mold the public’s perception. What player that came before Magic/Bird was bashed in order to elevate them? Whose past was rewritten or retroactively reexamined to elevate MJ? How about Kobe or Shaq? Tim Duncan?

And let’s throw out MJs DPOY. That still doesn’t affect that the difference of the accomplishments between MJ and Bron equals the HoF career of KD. Since you keep skipping this, this means if you subtracted all the awards Lebron got from what MJ got, MJ would still have a career similar to KD. And this is why Klutch and their plants/groupies go to the past to tear down the accomplishments of other greats. Because they know and you know the accomplishments of Lebron (you know besides longevity) don’t measure up to MJs.

 

[RoCKetSity256]

Retro Junk (Including Classic NBA)

This page features classic NBA contest, and a few television shows and clips from yesteryear. Enjoy!

www.youtube.com

Lazily looked it up and this channel has 3-5 home Bulls game that could’ve been used. But that’s besides the point. You said a lot of players had home cooked stats so why was MJ singled out with Lebrons name thrown in if it wasn’t to bring MJ down a notch and boost Lebron? You keep dodging this

And I’ll defend a lie? This same Tomcat character once presented stats to say Kobe was an overrated clutch shooter but when those same stats showed Rudy Gay bring the best in the clutch refused to call him the best or over Dirk(who I think was second). His whole goal of presenting the stats was to down Kobe and put Dirk over him but on the other hand wouldnt put Rudy over Dirk even tho the same stats he presented showed he was. You get it? He presented stats to push a certain agenda. Just as he did here

Yes you will defend a lie. I already said you can find a few games. Youve been saying since yesterday that you can find all 41 home games easily online and that he cherry picked games to prove his point. You said he only used certain games because they cant be verified. Youve been saying this with no idea of what your talking about you just assumed we could find all of the games online which you cant. then based your theory to defend Mj on that. You also keep asking the same questions repeatedly after ive already answered them. He answered the question youre asking and ive told you what he said. Not what i think but what he said. This started from Jaren Jacksons dpoy numbers. People thought his defensive stats were cooked so they went through and checked them and found out it wasnt "home cooking". So he got the idea after that to check the most historic statistical dpoy award which to his knowledge was the 88 Mj award. Mj wasnt singled out he had the most historic statistical dpoy season so thats why it was chosen. And his opinion on kobe is his opinion just like your opinion on Lebron is your opinion. i havent dodged anything im just tired of repeating answers ive given you just because you dont like the answers. Almost Everyone in this thread jordan fan or not and many reliable sources admit "home cooking" happened and its a hot topic now because many people including myself didnt know it was going on.


Edit: If they did the same for any nba player i would say they cheated for them too including lebron. The assists are too subjective. 1 person can say it is an assist and another can say it isnt and it isnt cheating because its so subjective. Giving 24 second violations to someone as a steal is not subjective its cheating.

 

[Pacni99a12]

This stan war shyt is hilarious

 

[FabTrey]

This whole thing makes me laugh, brehs.
I'm old enough to remember the whole season. Yall haters are disgusting.


Jordan's DPOY win in '88 wasn't just about steals and blocks.



It was about his overall contributions and setting the tone for the Bulls' defense. Steals and blocks are nice, but it was his intensity that really made the difference. Back then, we actually watched the games and didn't obsess over analytics like now.

Questioning the validity of his award based on cherry-picked stats totally misses the bigger picture of his impact. I'm really disgusted by this revisionist history nonsense.

 

[RoCKetSity256]

This whole thing makes me laugh, brehs.
I'm old enough to remember the whole season. Yall haters are disgusting.


Jordan's DPOY win in '88 wasn't just about steals and blocks.



It was about his overall contributions and setting the tone for the Bulls' defense. Steals and blocks are nice, but it was his intensity that really made the difference. Back then, we actually watched the games and didn't obsess over analytics like now.

Questioning the validity of his award based on cherry-picked stats totally misses the bigger picture of his impact. I'm really disgusted by this revisionist history nonsense.

Everyone in here isnt saying he shouldnt have won the dpoy in 88. I for 1 cant say if he should have or not i wasnt old enough to understand the game in 88. Its funny that people are acknowledging that cheating was going on but just brushing it off and basically saying "so what they cooked his stats he still was the dpoy". Muhfukkas didnt say "it dont matter if the patriots cheated they still the champs" they said "these muhfukkas is cheaters put a asterisk by them years" i just find it funny that alot of the mj fans tune changing when it comes to mj

 

[Illin Degenerate]

Everyone in here isnt saying he shouldnt have won the dpoy in 88. I for 1 cant say if he should have or not i wasnt old enough to understand the game in 88. Its funny that people are acknowledging that cheating was going on but just brushing it off and basically saying "so what they cooked his stats he still was the dpoy". Muhfukkas didnt say "it dont matter if the patriots cheated they still the champs" they said "these muhfukkas is cheaters put a asterisk by them years" i just find it funny that alot of the mj fans tune changing when it comes to mj

youre comparing integrity on the outcome of games vs boxscore stats in an age when daily fantasy bets werent a thing. this does slightly ding the mythos behind that 87-88 season but clearly boxkeepers played it loose back then. there wont be a huge investigation into it because theres no practical reason or way for them to verify the steals, rebounds, blocks, assists, fouls, for a single player or everyone 30-40-50 years ago. theres the famous quote, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

[fifth column]

Everyone in here isnt saying he shouldnt have won the dpoy in 88. I for 1 cant say if he should have or not i wasnt old enough to understand the game in 88. Its funny that people are acknowledging that cheating was going on but just brushing it off and basically saying "so what they cooked his stats he still was the dpoy". Muhfukkas didnt say "it dont matter if the patriots cheated they still the champs" they said "these muhfukkas is cheaters put a asterisk by them years" i just find it funny that alot of the mj fans tune changing when it comes to mj

What would you like to see happen in this situation? You are obviously deeply entrenched in it. Were the Jordan 1s really the 1st Jordans, is MJ really a made up AI bot?

 

[RoCKetSity256]

What would you like to see happen in this situation? You are obviously deeply entrenched in it. Were the Jordan 1s really the 1st Jordans, is MJ really a made up AI bot?

What should happen already has happened. we’ve been informed that they was some cheating muhfukkas back then. Ive already stated in this thread that this isnt changing anyones mind on MJ. If you believe mj was the GOAT before this that aint changing because this shyt was exposed. My initial posts in this thread were about fans denying it was happening. Majority of my posts the past 2 days are because im responding to being quoted thats what we do on message boards right?

These folks went back and watched the games breh. If you think he still deserved the award then thats what you think but they juiced the stats up and thats not the same as playing better at home.

This is my 1st post from this thread It dont say anything about mjs career or legacy its saying that these folks were cheating and if you still think he deserves the dpoy then more power to you but dont act like these folks wasnt cheating

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I'm old enough to remember the whole season.

Back then, we actually watched the games and didn't obsess over analytics like now.

Questioning the validity of his award based on cherry-picked stats totally misses the bigger picture of his impact. I'm really disgusted by this revisionist history nonsense.

I love watching people talk about shyt they saw when they were 12 (probably more like 7) and pretending like they were learned students of the game.

Breh, when you were watching in real time you had NO fukkING IDEA who deserved the DPOY. How many Rockets games did you see that season? How many Jazz games? Talking about "I remember the whole season" when you saw other teams 1-2 times on national TV tops and didn't know what the fukk you were watching because you hadn't even gone through puberty yet and couldn't name a single set on offense or defense.

Come on now, this "We actually watched the games!" jumped the shark a long time ago.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

So why don’t you call Lebron the goat over MJ then?

Honestly, at their level it's completely subjective. They both have great cases. Jordan for me has the better argument because his floor was higher, he doesn't have a low point that compares to the '11 Finals. But at the same time, Bron has accumulated more remarkable high points and keeps expanding his game and accomplishments. So to me it's not like there's any definitive answer.

 

[IsThatBrothaMouzone?]

MJ - he was a great defender for a guy that was expected to get buckets the way he did.

Scottie was always the better defensive player and got tasked with the toughest assignments. Flip side is that if MJ played on, say, the Showtime Lakers or Bird's Celtics...he wouldn't have to worry about scoring as much and could focus on defense more. Scottie would have been a worse defender if he was expected to drop 30 ppg.

 

[IsThatBrothaMouzone?]

Honestly, at their level it's completely subjective. They both have great cases. Jordan for me has the better argument because his floor was higher, he doesn't have a low point that compares to the '11 Finals. But at the same time, Bron has accumulated more remarkable high points and keeps expanding his game and accomplishments. So to me it's not like there's any definitive answer.

Agree with this.

I think MJ has fewer blemishes on his resume, so he's better in that sense.

However if you're picking one guy to build a team with, Bron seems like the best choice because of his versatility. Magic Johnson but bigger, more athletic, a better defender and better scorer.....Magic (I think) was tougher mentally....closer to MJ in that sense but not as much of a psychopath.

 

[fifth column]

Agree with this.

I think MJ has fewer blemishes on his resume, so he's better in that sense.

However if you're picking one guy to build a team with, Bron seems like the best choice because of his versatility. Magic Johnson but bigger, more athletic, a better defender and better scorer.....Magic (I think) was tougher mentally....closer to MJ in that sense but not as much of a psychopath.

Build a team in 2k or real life? What track record has LeBron demonstrated that he’s someone to build a sustainable team around? He is an hired gun for short team volatile success rather than a set the culture dynasty leader like MJ, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Steph and Tim.

 

[fifth column]

MJ - he was a great defender for a guy that was expected to get buckets the way he did.

Scottie was always the better defensive player and got tasked with the toughest assignments. Flip side is that if MJ played on, say, the Showtime Lakers or Bird's Celtics...he wouldn't have to worry about scoring as much and could focus on defense more. Scottie would have been a worse defender if he was expected to drop 30 ppg.

If MJ played on the Lakers or Celtics he would still be their #1 scoring option.