Yahoo Sports: “A closer look at MJ’s 1988 DPOY raises questions about its validity”
- Thread starter HandyWithTheSteel
- Start date
fifth column
Superstar
You don’t get it, Jordan wasn’t MJ cause of any stat/accomplishments/talent. It was because of who he was as a competitor. Nobody has ever seen that before in a basketball player. It’s the same fascination people have with Lions and Tigers, they are not just big cats, they kill as apex predators
fifth column
Superstar
My favorite player is Kobe
You've reached peak stanhood, your favorite player is now officially mythical.
Breh, if you were both in 1975 then you were 12 years old when that season started, if you were born in 1979 then you were 8. There was zero chance that you were watching a game at 9-10 years old and could see jack shyt about who deserved DPOY from just watching the games, even teenagers are pretty ignorant about the intricacies of the game, much less children.
There were only 15 nationally televised regular season NBA games on network TV that year. A few more on cable, but not many. It's unlikely that you saw more than 1-2 Houston or Utah games that entire year, if even that.
So you were going by stat lines just like we are now, except we have 10x as much information.
And we KNOW that MJ's stat lines were false now. Back in 1988, you thought they were legit.
MJ got ZERO votes for the All-Defensive teams the year before this breh. He ONLY became a candidate when he started bytching about deserving the award. So clearly your memory is faulty.
MJ was great, but he was also the beneficiary of the biggest advertizing campaign starting from his rookie year. Of course he was the guy who "walked on water", you were besieged by a CONSTANT stream of advertizements telling you that he was different. No matter how good Michael Cooper or Mark Eaton or Hakeem Olajuwon were at defense, they weren't getting no ads like that.
So what makes you think, as a 9-10 year old inundated by that much advertizing and knowing so little about the defensive side of the game, that you could be objective at all regarding this issue?
I was 11 and knew everything about players, from their colleges to their stat lines, breh. If you weren’t in diapers when MJ retired, you’d understand what we saw. You can dissect YouTube vids all you want, but we lived through the whole season. Ask anyone who grew up watching basketball in the 80s—they'll tell you MJ was an experience. You can revise history, but you can’t change the facts.
back then i pretty much watched every Pistons game on TV, including cable. We weren’t in the dark, breh. We talked, debated, and analyzed every bit of info we got. MJ’s stats? Factual. Home cooking? Part of his legend. He probably got more aggressive at home because he knew he’d get the calls. Why wouldn’t he? Players perform better at home with supportive crowds and favorable officiating.
Great late jerry west agrees jordan was the best defensive player
And the advertising? Are we really going there? So what if he had commercials? He was a superstar. He backed it up with routine 40-point games and occasional 50-point games, intensity, and energy. Backed it up in the playoffs putting up serious numbers home or road. MJ was the biggest game in town. Yes, we were collectively duped by Nike's campaign. Nike gave him 6 rings too, I guess.
In the end, Jordan's performances spoke louder than any commercial. He left a lasting impression that no marketing could fabricate. It didn't matter if there were 15 televised games or 50—if you saw him once, you'd never forget. You don't need to watch Tyson's previous 20 fights to know he was a wrecking ball. all you had to do was watch berbick or sphinx fight. all you needed to watch was all star games or whenever jordan was on TV. game over. check mate. nikkas be thinking about jordan in sleep.
back to DPOY, 3.2 steals/1.6assts are DPOY worthy no matter how you slice it. just deal with it.
I was the same age during MJ's first run that you were in 1988, but I'm self-aware enough to know that no 11-year-old in the country can evaluate the DPOY race based on just 15 nationally televised games across the whole league.
Take a fukking psychology class breh, you'll realize that "living though the experience" is all about perception, it's the OPPOSITE of "facts".
People who lived through the Reagan years thought he was the greatest president, how did that turn out?
Thank you for proving my point for me.
Holy shyt, did you really say this after it was already proven the 3.2 steals / 1.6 blocks never even happened?
We have peak example of an MJ stan's connection to reality in this comment.
Trojan 24
Veteran
LeDesperation in this thread is 
I was the same age during MJ's first run that you were in 1988, but I'm self-aware enough to know that no 11-year-old in the country can evaluate the DPOY race based on just 15 nationally televised games across the whole league.
Take a fukking psychology class breh, you'll realize that "living though the experience" is all about perception, it's the OPPOSITE of "facts".
People who lived through the Reagan years thought he was the greatest president, how did that turn out?
Thank you for proving my point for me.
Holy shyt, did you really say this after it was already proven the 3.2 steals / 1.6 blocks never even happened?
We have peak example of an MJ stan's connection to reality in this comment.
In 1988, the DPOY award was only in its sixth year, still relatively new and being figured out by many, breh. Contrary to what some might think, MJ winning the DPOY as a guard wasn't an anomaly. At that time, it wasn't seen as a big man's award. Judging by its first five recipients, it seemed more like a guard's award—four of the first five winners were guards, including Michael Cooper, who was a sixth man. By 1988, only one big man, Mark Eaton in 1985, had won the DPOY. Sidney Moncrief won it back-to-back and his defensive numbers pale in comparison to Jordan's.
Back then, the sentiment was that Jordan, already a great offensive player, was also a great defensive player. Because he was such a great two-way player, he was mentioned in the same breath as Magic and Bird, even though he hadn't quite earned that yet.
So, MJ winning it as a guard wasn't unusual or particularly special back then. Given the brief history of the award, a guard winning it was expected. The real question should be about whether MJ truly deserved it. Based on the stats and his reputation as one of the top perimeter defenders, he absolutely deserved to win it. Did Hakeem, Eaton, or Cooper deserve it more? That's another debate. It's a subjective award. Did Wemby deserve it more than Rudy this year?
When you watch the game like I do, the best defense isn't just about steals, blocks, or rebounds. It's about the play itself. Was Bruce Bowen the DPOY in 2004? Honestly, he deserved it more than Ben Wallace, even though Bowen didn't have the stats to back it up. Stats aren't the real measure of DPOY. It's the play itself within the context of the game. Jordan was a ball-hawking shutdown defender. His athleticism alone was a problem, and he had the smarts and intensity to pair with his great first step. jordan in that era was sight to behold. he was just relentless. and pippen was just coming to his own, so pippen didn't really become pippen till the 1st peat. jordan was that dude who wrecked havoc on perimeter pre 1st peat.
And since it's a highly subjective award, why would anybody question the results now? Oh wait, this is a hit piece by Klutch Sports, so never mind.
Last edited:
fifth column
Superstar
You are fighting on the wrong side of history, and for what, to push Lebron’s propaganda as goat? He had 21+ years to prove that he is greater than MJ and came up short. He hasn’t made any meaningful impact on the league outside of benefiting himself. Who wants to be like Lebron in terms of play style?I was the same age during MJ's first run that you were in 1988, but I'm self-aware enough to know that no 11-year-old in the country can evaluate the DPOY race based on just 15 nationally televised games across the whole league.
Take a fukking psychology class breh, you'll realize that "living though the experience" is all about perception, it's the OPPOSITE of "facts".
People who lived through the Reagan years thought he was the greatest president, how did that turn out?
Thank you for proving my point for me.
Holy shyt, did you really say this after it was already proven the 3.2 steals / 1.6 blocks never even happened?
We have peak example of an MJ stan's connection to reality in this comment.
Dr J, Bird & Magic, MJ, Shaq, AI, Kobe then it’s Steph. Where is Lebron’s impact on the game
Trojan 24
Veteran
Btw I love how LeGBT always cry about the media/marketing push behind MJ and completely ignoring that Bron had a Nike commerical comparing him to Jesus before he ever played a game. And it wasn't early 80s Nike it was full-on media machine Nike
But Jordan tried to claim it did, that's why he was bytching in 1987 that Cooper shouldn't have won the DPOY because he had more steals than Cooper did. Jordan argued from the EXACT ignorant viewpoint that you're trying to attribute to me.
And lol, the audacity of you saying this after you've already said:
oh by the way, Jordan's road stats of 2.1 steals and 1.2 blocks in 88 are higher than Brons 2013 season averages. That's the year everyone says he got robbed of DPOY.
You can't spend half the thread arguing that steal/block totals are the reason MJ deserves DPOY, then turn around and admit that steal/block totals aren't the measure of real defense.
That's what I've already pointed out in this thread.
In the late 1980s, the award was frequently just given to the guy with the highest steals/blocks, not the best defender. From 1984-85 to 1988-89, DPOY went to the league leader in steals/blocks EVERY year except 1987. And that one year that it didn't go to the league leader.......Jordan bytched about that fact and complained that he should have won because he had more steals.
Jordan complained that his steal/block #'s were DPOY worthy in 1987, Jordan went out of his way to statpad steals/blocks in 1988, his scorekeeper straight cheated to inflate his totals, and if he doesn't lead the league in steals with an impressive block total, he wouldn't have won DPOY>
Hakeem had a far greater impact on defense that year than Jordan did. His team was just as good defensively as the Bulls even though his teammates weren't as good on that end. Ewing and Eaton likely deserved it more too.
Tom Haberstroh isn't Klutch, and the results are questioned because no one did it yet. Y'all are flailing right now.
But Jordan tried to claim it did, that's why he was bytching in 1987 that Cooper shouldn't have won the DPOY because he had more steals than Cooper did. Jordan argued from the EXACT ignorant viewpoint that you're trying to attribute to me.
And lol, the audacity of you saying this after you've already said:
You can't spend half the thread arguing that steal/block totals are the reason MJ deserves DPOY, then turn around and admit that steal/block totals aren't the measure of real defense.
That's what I've already pointed out in this thread.
In the late 1980s, the award was frequently just given to the guy with the highest steals/blocks, not the best defender. From 1984-85 to 1988-89, DPOY went to the league leader in steals/blocks EVERY year except 1987. And that one year that it didn't go to the league leader.......Jordan bytched about that fact and complained that he should have won because he had more steals.
Jordan complained that his steal/block #'s were DPOY worthy in 1987, Jordan went out of his way to statpad steals/blocks in 1988, his scorekeeper straight cheated to inflate his totals, and if he doesn't lead the league in steals with an impressive block total, he wouldn't have won DPOY>
Hakeem had a far greater impact on defense that year than Jordan did. His team was just as good defensively as the Bulls even though his teammates weren't as good on that end. Ewing and Eaton likely deserved it more too.
Tom Haberstroh isn't Klutch, and the results are questioned because no one did it yet. Y'all are flailing right now.
That wasn't my argument. MJ's road averages alone were impressive.
Let's say Jordan averaged 2.9 steals and 1.5 blocks in 1988, just like he did in 1987. That would still be DPOY-worthy numbers.
People voted for Jordan because of his play, and his numbers confirmed it. Those stats would still have been good enough.
If Hakeem had averaged 4 blocks instead of 2.7, we could argue he was robbed, but that wasn't the case. No one noticeably stood out, and MJ definitely deserved the award because of that. Jordan had better numbers and won more games. This award didn't come out of thin air—Jordan had that reputation of being a two-way beast already. Perception is reality.
The fact remains that Jordan winning the DPOY was historical. We had never had an MVP also win DPOY before, and you can't change that fact. We should be celebrating Jordan's greatness. No hit piece will change what really happened in 1988.
And don't forget, Wizard Jordan averaged 1.4 and 1.5 steals with ZERO athleticism.
Seriously, 39-40 year-old Jordan with no speed or lift averaged 1.5 steals in his final year, which is better than 9 seasons of Bron.
8 steals in a half.
inflated or not, jordan was nasty. EVERY HUMAN BEING WHO KNEW ABOUT THE GAME KNEW MJ WAS HIM.
Last edited:
