Ya have any desire to change your last name (Slave name)

[BigMan]

Whos debating? lol no matter what you feel Black folks are still getting f*cked globally. So if debating online is your way to feel like you are doing your part in life go for it, but tae that mess elsewhere.

Dumbass, you quoted me and i responded and now you're running. you wanna drop it than drop it and don't address the subject again.

 

[kayslay]

you really are stupid


i cant breathe


Slang=/=dialect=/=language you dumbasses are dissing your own "language" by equating slang with language. This dumb bytch kayslay even used "thot" and "bae" as examples of AAVE no bytch thats just slang. Your great great great grandparents wouldnt know what the fukk you are talking about


Yall want to have a serious debate on linguistics or nah. Maybe yall need @IllmaticDelta

You need to go outside and get some fresh air.

 

[BigMan]

You need to go outside and get some fresh air.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Interesting topic on AAVE, never knew there were arguments to prove that it may be a language. Just started watching videos on it.

But yeah I hate how grammar elitist(mainly racists) try to look down on AAVE dialect. There is no supreme form of English unless linguistics try make a big monolithic worldwide English where every English speaking person in the world speaks the SAME dialect. Other than that English is English with different region flavor.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

When did i say Patois is a language? Feel free to go through my posting history. When did i "claim" creile or geechee people? Do you know how to read English? And again prove Aave is a language

Isn't Patois a language in the same nature that Creole is? Just curious.

 

[BigMan]

Isn't Patois a language in the same nature that Creole is? Just curious.

even though im part Jamaican i'm not convinced Patois is a different language. Patois is closer to English than Kreyol to French

 

[Bawon Samedi]

even though im part Jamaican i'm not convinced Patois is a different language. Patois is closer to English than Kreyol to French

I thought you were full Jamaican???? Whats your other half if you mind me asking?

Anyways I just thought Patois was its own language similar to Creole.

 

[Poitier]

There were no linguist to call what we consider languages today as they were being born out of older languages.

 

[BigMan]

I thought you were full Jamaican???? Whats your other half if you mind me asking?

Anyways I just thought Patois was its own language similar to Creole.

Spoiler

mother's from Aruba

Patois been decreolized too; ; also most people mix it with English so much too especially with the influence of American English. i'm hesitant to call it a separate language due to more similarities to English than other English based creoles and ease of standard English speakers in understand it.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Intelligibility does not equal separate language

Geechee and Louisiana Creole are languages not aave

I already spoke on this

Patois (/ˈpætwɑː/, pl. same or /ˈpætwɑːz/)[1] is any language that is considered nonstandard, although the term is not formally defined in linguistics. It can refer to pidgins, creoles, dialects, and other forms of native or local speech, but not commonly to jargon or slang, which are vocabulary-based forms of Cant. Class distinctions are embedded in the term, drawn between those who speak patois and those who speak the standard or dominant language used in literature and public speaking, i.e., the "acrolect".

the dialect of the common people of a region, differing in various respects from the standard language of the rest of the country.

AAVE formed the same way Gullah-Geeche or Jamaican Patois did but has moved closer to standard English.

 

[BigMan]

There were no linguist to call what we consider languages today as they were being born out of older languages.

obviously every language comes from a motherlanguage but still, of the Englishbased creoles of the world, AAVE has to be one of most similar to standard English and defintely not a separate language. whereas the difference between Kreyol and French are much more profound. but then again South Africacs made Afrikaans a separate language when its 99% Dutch Languages are political tho

 

[BigMan]

I already spoke on this





AAVE formed the same way Gullah-Geeche or Jamaican Patois did but has moved closer to standard English.

yeah its decreolized into a dialect with few of its original differences from English

kayslay was using "thot" and "bae" as examples of AAVE being a separate language like cmon bruh

 

[IllmaticDelta]

you really are stupid


i cant breathe


Slang=/=dialect=/=language you dumbasses are dissing your own "language" by equating slang with language. This dumb bytch kayslay even used "thot" and "bae" as examples of AAVE no bytch thats just slang. Your great great great grandparents wouldnt know what the fukk you are talking about


Yall want to have a serious debate on linguistics or nah. Maybe yall need @IllmaticDelta

Here I amRepost




Misconceptions About “Black Dialect”


I would like to shed some light on black dialect, which some individuals now call “Ebonics,” and how such came to be. It kinda irks me that people keep referring to it as being “made up” or some sort of street slang. They think it’s the same thing that you might hear from rappers which really isn’t the case. Black Dialect or Ebonics originated in the American south from slaves and eventually spread out when blacks began to leave the South. In fact, if you want to see or hear it in it’s true form just go find some old slave narratives or even old Blues lyrics. Rappers actually rap in a a combination of “Black Dialect” and street slang. Real black dialect has no slang. Black dialect is really Southern White American English with Africanisms. It formed the same way West African pidgins, Jamaican Patois and Creoles formed. Famous African American writers like Langston Hughes, Zora Neale Hurston and Paul Dunbar wrote many of their works in this dialect.

What people call "Ebonics" today used to be called "Black Dialect" or "Black English". A quick history comparing "Black Dialect or Ebonics" "Gullah" and West African Pidgins


Southern American English

Southern American English is a group of dialects of the English language spoken throughout the Southern region of the United States, from Virginia and central Kentucky to the Gulf Coast, and from the Atlantic coast to central Texas. Southern American English can be divided into different sub-dialects (see American English), with speech differing between regions. African American Vernacular English (AAVE) shares similarities with Southern dialect, unsurprising given African Americans' strong historical ties to the region.

The Southern American English dialects are often stigmatized (as are other American English dialects such as New York-New Jersey English). Therefore, speakers may code-switch or may eliminate more distinctive features from their personal idiolect in favor of "neutral-sounding" English (General American), though this involves more changes in phonetics than vocabulary. Well-known speakers of Southern dialect include United States Presidents Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush along with playwright Tennessee Williams and singer Elvis Presley.

The Gullah Creole and "black dialect" are related. The main difference is that "Black Dialect" is closer to Standard English while Gullah has more pure African influence. One can say that "Black Dialect" is watered down Gullah. Yall may not know this but an AfroAmerican Gullah speaker and a Jamaican Patois speaker can somewhat understand each other but speakers of "Black Dialect" can't understand either one. An article take from the Jamaican-Gleaner website...


God speaks Gullah

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060128/mind/mind1.html

A NEW translation of the New Testament designed for persons who speak Gullah was unveiled last November. This translation bears strong resemblance to Jamaican Patois.

Gullah is the language that gave the world the song Kumbaya and words such as 'yam' and 'nanny'. It is spoken by about 250,000 African-Americans who inhabit the coastal areas between South Carolina and Florida.

The Gullah language according to www.wikipedia.com "is an English-based Creole, strongly influenced by West and Central African languages such as Vai, Mende, Twi, Ewe, Hausa, Yoruba, Igbo, and Kikongo.

"It strongly resembles the Krio language of Sierra Leone, a major West African English-based Creole. Some African-derived words attributed to Gullah are: cootuh (turtle), oonuh (pronoun 'you'), nyam (to eat), and buckruh (white man)".

The language originated in the slave trade that brought mainly West Africans to the Sea Islands off South Carolina. The slave traders, in an effort to thwart uprisings and escapees mixed slaves who spoke different languages. From this hybrid came Gullah. Some linguists believe that 10,000 African-Americans speak nothing but Gullah.

Gullah, also called Geechee, was developed as a way for slaves to communicate with one another without white slave owners knowing what was being said. After the American Civil War, the former slaves were able to retain their culture and language because many remained isolated on coastal islands.

Because the islands were isolated, Gullah never evolved into standard English.

Gullah many concur bears some resemblance to Ebonics, the modern African-American vernacular. But scholars insist it is a distinct language with its own grammar and vocabulary.

Bible translator Pat Sharpe and her husband, Claude, arrived in the Sea Islands all set to retire in the late 1970s. The couple decided to try a translation of the Bible into Gullah, beginning a process that would take nearly 30 years.

By the time the Sharpes had arrived, Gullah speakers had learned to be ashamed of their language. Some locals tried to persuade the Sharpes to drop the project. The couple refused to give up. They noted that Gullah had contributed to the English language such words as 'tote' (to carry), 'chigger' (flea) and 'biddy' (chicken). Other linguists joined the translation team as the project evolved.

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Jamaican website REGGAEmovement.com on Patois

http://debate.uvm.edu/dreadlibrary/sullivan.html

Jamaican Patois, otherwise known as Patwa, Afro. Jamaican, just plain Jamaican or, Creole, is a language that has been until quite recently referred to as "ungrammatical English." (Adams, 199 1, p . I 1)

Creole languages are actually not unique to Jamaica, they are found on every continent although their speakers often do not realize what they are. The rest of the terms refer strictly to Jamaican Creole. Creoles are languages that usually form as the result of some human upheaval which makes it impossible for people to use their own languages to communicate. What people often refer to as the 'bad' or 'broken-English' of Jamaica are actually local Creoles that usually come about through a situation of partial language learning (Sebba 1, 1996, p.50-1.)

The technical definition of the term Creole means-, a language which comes into being through contact between two or more languages. The most important part about this definition is that a new language comes about which was not there before, yet it has some characteristics of the original language(s) and also has some characteristics of its own. The Creole of Jamaica and the Caribbean is referred to as an 'English-lexicon' and this language came about when African slaves were forced into a situation where English, or at least a very reduced form of English, was the only common means of communication. The slave traders and owners spoke English while the slaves spoke a variety of African languages and the slaves had to assimilate by learning English which explains why much of the vocabulary is English in origin. Although there is much English vocabulary, many words were also adopted from African languages when no equivalent English word could be found such as, words for people, things, plants, animals, activities, and especially religious words (Sebba 1, 1996, 50-1.) The name Jamaica itself was derived from the Arawak word Xaymaca meaning "Island of springs," but no other known trace(s) of the Arawak, the indigenous inhabitants of Jamaica, exist today (Pryce, 1997, p-238.)

Despite all the debate surrounding Patois, the international prestige of Standard English which derives from political and economic factors, has made people everywhere around the world obtain the major life goal of speaking it; even in countries where English has never traditionally been spoken people are acquiring this goal. As stated before, in Jamaica, the overwhelming feeling of prestige surrounding English causes people who speak Creole to be regarded as socially and linguistically inferior. This causes Creole languages to be considered unacceptable for use for any official or formal purpose, including education, hence the previously mentioned problem of young Creole speaking children getting frustrated and discouraged by trying to read and write in "Standard" English, which to them is basically a foreign language (Sebba 1, 1996, p.52.) We have even seen some of this debate on educational uses of language occur in the U.S. on the issue of Ebonics. Ebonics has been referred to as "Black English" and it is the language of many inner cities and until now has been thought of as slang'. Ebonics and Jamaican Patios are similar in that they both have the same roots and parts of the language came out as a result of people being taken from Africa for slavery (citation #3, WWW.) Also, the primary similarity in the debate on Ebonics and Jamaican Patios is the fact that Standard English is the language that must be mastered to conduct most businesses and to be successful in any traditional occupation (Pryce, 1997, p.241.)

.....and for the record, "Ebonics" is not slang. Basically, Black Dialect/AAVE/Ebonics is decreolized, Pidgin/Creole and that is closer to standard English

Do You Speak American . Sea to Shining Sea . American Varieties . AAVE . Creole | PBS

Origins: Dialect or Creole?

There are two main hypotheses about the origin of African American Vernacular English or AAVE. The Dialectologist Hypothesis, a prevailing view in the 1940s, concentrates on the English origins of AAVE, to the exclusion of African influence.

The Creole Hypothesis, on the other hand, maintains that modern AAVE is the result of a creole derived from English and various West African Languages. (A creole is a language derived from other languages that becomes the primary language of the people who speak it.) Slaves who spoke many different West African languages were often thrown together during their passage to the New World. To be able to communicate in some fashion they developed a pidgin* by applying English and some West African vocabulary to the familiar grammar rules of their native tongue. This pidgin was passed onto future generations. As it became the primary language of its speakers, it was classified as a creole. Over the years AAVE has gone through the process of decreolization - a change in the creole that makes it more like the standard language of an area.

*A pidgin is language composed of two or more languages created for the purpose of communication, usually around trade centers, between people who do not speak a common language. It is never a person's primary language.

Do You Speak American . Sea to Shining Sea . American Varieties . AAVE . Creole | PBS




Decreolization=steps closer to standard English=why many think it's just broken English w/o any Africanisms=why speakers of it can't understand Jamaican Patois and Gullah speakers even though they came about the same way

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By the way, the Carib equivalent to what "Ebonics" or "Black Dialect" (decreolized Creole) are to Gullah (pure Creole) is what they call Caribbean English. It's closer to standard English than the purer Carib Creoles/Patois

Caribbean English

Caribbean English is a broad term for the dialects of the English language spoken in the Caribbean, most countries on the Caribbean coast of Central America, and Guyana. Caribbean English is influenced by the English-based Creole varieties spoken in the region, but they are not the same. In the Caribbean, there is a great deal of variation in the way English is spoken. Scholars generally agree that although the dialects themselves vary significantly in each of these countries, they all have roots in 17th-century English and African languages.

Caribbean English is a broad term for the dialects of the English language spoken in the Caribbean, most countries on the Caribbean coast of Central America, and Guyana. Caribbean English is influenced by the English-based Creole varieties spoken in the region, but they are not the same. In the Caribbean, there is a great deal of variation in the way English is spoken. Scholars generally agree that although the dialects themselves vary significantly in each of these countries, they all have roots in 17th-century English and African languages.

Standard English - Where is that boy? (pronounced /hwɛəɹ ɪz ðæt bɔɪ/)

* Barbados - 'Wherr dat boi?' ([hwer ɪz dæt bɔɪ]) (Spoken very quickly, is choppy, rhotic, and contains glottal stops; The most distinct accent)

* Jamaica, and Antigua and Barbuda- 'Whierr iz daht bwoy?' ([hweɪr ɪz dɑt bʷɔɪ]) (Distinctive, sporadic rhoticity; Irish and Scottish influence)

* Trinidad and Bahamas - 'Wey iz dat boy?' ([weɪ ɪz dæt bɔɪ]) (Very similar to the accents of south western England and Wales; Have no rhoticity)

* Guyana, Tobago, St. Vincent - 'Weyr iz daht bai?' ([weɪɹ ɪz dɑt baɪ]) (Many variations depending of Afro- or Indo- descent, and compentency in standard English; Sporadic rhoticity )

* Belize, Panama, Nicaragua, The Bay Islands, Limón, and the Virgin Islands - 'Wehr iz daht booy?' ([weɹ ɪz dɑt buɪ]) (Distinct, sporadic rhoticity, pronunciation becomes quite different from "Creole" pronunciation.)

Caribbean English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Go find some old slave narratives from the American South or the dialect infused poetry of Paul Dunbar based on Southern Black dialect and you'll see and read stuff just like that.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

yeah its decreolized into a dialect with few of its original differences from English

kayslay was using "thot" and "bae" as examples of AAVE being a separate language like cmon bruh

Lol..yeah, those aren't AAVE related but Afram jargon and slang.


A follow up to this post in regards to Afram AAVE, slang and jargon

Rapping and the Dancehall style (they call it Deejaying in Jamaica) are cousins and here is the connection
black american oral traditions---->Jive/Patter---->Scatting--->Jazz/tribal poetry-->Rapping
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Jive/Patter + scatting-->Toasting--->Deejay===Dancehall style

The Story Of English Program 5 Black On White

Program five in the series Story of English examines the origins of Black English, beginning with the influx of Africans to the American continent caused by the slave trade. In the American south, Gullah is spoken on the Sea Islands near the South Carolina coast. The old plantations bred a different strain and other regions of the south are equally unique. Footage of pidgin English speakers in West Africa is also featured. This video also discusses the roots of rap, the uses of rap in public schools, and jive talk with Cab Calloway -- including showing the efforts of non-African-American entertainers to utilize the style, with mixed success.

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also

 

[BigMan]

The Creole Hypothesis, on the other hand, maintains that modern AAVE is the result of a creole derived from English and various West African Languages. (A creole is a language derived from other languages that becomes the primary language of the people who speak it.) Slaves who spoke many different West African languages were often thrown together during their passage to the New World. To be able to communicate in some fashion they developed a pidgin* by applying English and some West African vocabulary to the familiar grammar rules of their native tongue. This pidgin was passed onto future generations. As it became the primary language of its speakers, it was classified as a creole. Over the years AAVE has gone through the process of decreolization - a change in the creole that makes it more like the standard language of an area.

thats what i'm saying right here. AAVE has decreolized to the point that you can't call it a language. Especially compared to Atlantic English creoles and English based creoles worldwide, AAVE is very similar to standard English. very few people speak the "archaic", "deep" version of AAVE that exist in literature from the 1800s and 1900s anymore

because of isolation Geechee experienced less decreolization which is why i said its a language not a dialect like AAVE