Wu-Tang Clan Docuseries ‘Of Mics and Men on Showtime(Available on Demand)

[Billy Ocean]

Cause they were ...

It started in 97 at a height. By 2002 it was over man. Idk what your getting at. All those records by all those guys literally dropped between 98-02 and that period had like 30 NON WUTANG albums with a W on it. People would say wu fell off not realizing they listening to some off brand shyt and casuals got tired of it. Buying wutang the swarm and getting remedy and cilvaringz and throwaways.

You and I are wu stans. The greater hip hop world DID NOT WANT THAT shyt. Im talking word on the street not hip hop nerds like us. The casual audience was NOT pumping killarmy and sunzz of man bro. That stuff hurt more than hot 97 ever did in tye mainstreams eyes. Every album sold less and less. Rza cashed the fukk out. Put every body on diff labels and ATE.

I love the ghostdog album. shyt coulda been liquid swords 2 tho and instead its northstar, black knights, superb, etc and a forgotten soundtrack. the only consistancy was the sound created by rza that he had dolled out to the labels... like ugod said odb told em “we rzas robots”

I fukk with the original killer bees but focusing on them, using the W, is like putting the dipset label on all those side dudes they had. People who bought diplomatic immunity 1 were NOT happy with 2.

Only album of the 40 they dropped that gets props like the original wu albums is killah priests first. Priest wasnt even a killerbee in 99 anymore.... none of the 99 killer bees were really the 95 ones... that type of brand replacement hurts the casual buyer.


I know a lotta people got dissapointed similar to me asking for dr dre the chronic and my aunt buying me doctor dre and ed lover...

No, Vine and Ghost were not talking about Sunz of Man ad Killarmy in that clip.

And you are exaggerating/being disingenuous when you say 40 or so Wu affiliate albums dropped during that time. You couldn't name 10 Wu affiliate albums that dropped before U-God's debut dropped in 99. And you can't tell me that Wu fans were tired of the first string of Wu affiliates. I lived through that time and you can't pull that revisionist bullshyt with me. Wu fans ate that shyt up and those early Wu affiliated albums sold well and were critically acclaimed. It was the affiliate albums that came much later that hurt the Wu brand because they just weren't as good as the first string of Wu affiliated albums.

Like I said: U-God first album hurt the Wu brand more than any Killarmy or Sunz album. shyt just wasn't as good as the other Wu members solos. It was constant bickering, critically panned solos from the Wu members and members not showing up to performances that hurt the brand.

 

[ig88]

No, Vine and Ghost were not talking about Sunz of Man ad Killarmy in that clip.

And you are exaggerating/being disingenuous when you say 40 or so Wu affiliate albums dropped during that time. You couldn't name 10 Wu affiliate albums that dropped before U-God's debut dropped in 99. And you can't tell me that Wu fans were tired of the first string of Wu affiliates. I lived through that time and you can't pull that revisionist bullshyt with me. Wu fans ate that shyt up and those early Wu affiliated albums sold well and were critically acclaimed. It was the affiliate albums that came much later that hurt the Wu brand because they just weren't as good as the first string of Wu affiliated albums.

Like I said: U-God first album hurt the Wu brand more than any Killarmy or Sunz album. shyt just wasn't as good as the other Wu members solos. It was constant bickering, critically panned solos from the Wu members and members not showing up to performances that hurt the brand.

I guarantee you make a poll asking if the killer bees hurt the clan many people will say yes. I like all these albums. To pretend ANY of em touch the first ten wu albums minus 1-2 is lying. People wasnt checking for memphis bleek but checking for 50 unknown rappers cuz of a symbol?

Why do you think the swarm has no artists listed on back.. lol. Independent gold. fukking rza lol

And since you dared me and exageration is my thing. 10?

The swarm
Heavy mental
Wu syndicate
The last shall be first
The pillage
Silent weapons
Dirty weaponry
Man child (not counting first 2 cuz he was his own man)
6 feet deep (noone wanted this album until wutang)
Pick sickel shovel
Heist of the century
Gp wu (counting this because they signed and given name cause of wu tabg popping)
Buddha monk the prophecy
Deadly venoms album (mook their manager W used)

Thats 14. Coulda been 18 didnt wanna do leaks bootlegs and compa for albums that never came out even tho they are valued wu albums.

10 shyt ones released right after next 2 years too. It was a joke by then. Kids used to say shyt in school bout it all the time. Wutang went from 5x plat to gold in 4 years...


Add the second run wu albums. And first ones. And yea over 40 albums dropped before ugod got his first.

Imagine. You a founding member of a group and in the 6 years you in group.. DOZENS of rappers are getting studio time for 35+ releases before you get ONE. BASED of Your SACRIFICE? Were they building wu name 13 to a bus for 10 dollars a night? NOPE

Yea i get it why wu members think the shyt was diluted. Would they say that if they all got a cut? Idk. They hated what rza was doing with bobby digi and west coast bees.

And Kid im not even listing the singles by many more artists who never got to get an album from mmo, kgb, shabazz and who knows else.

And these were the good years. The bad years came riiiight after.


RZA is resposible for ugods album. Period. Its on WUTANG records. He had the power to make it more. He coulda got more artists together like he did initially. He did it months later FOR GHOST. Rza works who he wanna work with and ugod was not on his priority list.

 

[Billy Ocean]

I guarantee you make a poll asking if the killer bees hurt the clan many people will say yes. I like all these albums. To pretend ANY of em touch the first ten wu albums minus 1-2 is lying. People wasnt checking for memphis bleek but checking for 50 unknown rappers cuz of a symbol?

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT KILLARMY AND SUNZ OF MAN. Why you deceitfully try to bring up other groups/artists? The argument is whether Killarmy and Sunz of Man hurt the Wu brand. Make a poll asking people if Sunz of Man and Killarmy hurt the Wu brand.

And since you dared me and exageration is my thing. 10?

The swarm
Heavy mental
Wu syndicate
The last shall be first
The pillage
Silent weapons
Dirty weaponry
Man child (not counting first 2 cuz he was his own man)
6 feet deep (noone wanted this album until wutang)
Pick sickel shovel
Heist of the century
Gp wu (counting this because they signed and given name cause of wu tabg popping)
Buddha monk the prophecy
Deadly venoms album (mook their manager)

Thats 14. Coulda been 17 didnt wanna do leaks and bootlegs for albums that never came out even tho they are valued wu albums.

RZA had very little to do with a few of those projects. Don't have the logo and RZA ain't produce or was involved in the creative process. Wasn't the argument that RZA was concentrating on putting out other rappers over U-God? Buddah Monk and GP Wu projects had nothing to do with RZA and that Deadly Venoms project never came out so I don't see how you can try to fit them in with your argument that RZA was putting out too many other rappers. Excluding Gravediggaz (since RZA was working on that Gravediggaz shyt for almost as far back as when he was working on the Wu) the other true albums RZA had his hand in, from the ones you mention, were dope as fukk and played no part in diluting the Wu brand. The La the Darkman, Killah Priest, Sunz of Man, Killarmy and Swarm albums were all really dope and better than U-God's debut.

10 shyt ones released right after next 2 years too. It was a joke by then. Kids used to say shyt in school bout it all the time. Wutang went from 5x plat to gold in 4 years...

KILLARMY AND SUNZ OF MAN! We are talking about those projects and projects before 2000 (U-God's debut dropped in late 99). Those Killarmy and Sunz projects were dope and helped the Wu brand. And Wu selling less had nothing to do with Killarmy and Sunz of Man and a WHOLE lot to do with their fractious relationship with each other, the group's solo and group albums just not being as good as the first string of albums, less radio play, members not showing up for events and the advent of a new sound that became popular in Hip Hop. Killarmy and Sunz had shyt to do with declining Wu album sales. Again...you being disingenuous.

 

[ig88]

This is why i block you periodicly cause its like talking to a piece of concrete who can never be wrong and cant see things from both sides.

Well there is no right or wrong answer to if you you think the wubbrand was diluted. Its an opinion. But to pretend this wasnt talked about as far back as 1998 when it was really just sunz/killarmy is a LIE. Im looking for old source reviews cause i KNOW itll be mentioned but i dont think they exist. Wonder why....

I loved wutang and the killah bees. But i understand why everyone else started listening elsewhere. If you think islord 9th prince shogun and 60 sec assassin were adding to the wutang mythos ya fukking CRAZY. Even dom baretta 9 prodigal sunn and even hell razah (at time) were defintion of AVERAGE.

WU TANG WAS NEVER SEEN AS AVERAGE until these changes.

Killarmy and sunz are just the MOST POPULAR of the killer beez and the first ones to get the rub. They were brought up because of the BIGGER PROBLEM or lesser mcs getting rzas attention for MONEY and the wu brand dilution. Killarmy was putting on family and friends. Sunz of man was smashing 2 groups together under the wu umbrella that barely even lasted an ALBUM.

Gp wu didnt have anythingbto do with wutang... as a BUSINESS.. but pop is ghosts cousin. Rns is rza local producing peer, shyheim was down with then wu. On 36 chambers gp wu is shout out as “killer bees” just like the rest of em. Wu syndicate counts (total outsiders) but not gp????When the killerbees became “wutang” shyt went left.

The label made the decision but decisions like those started being made OVER and OVER post 97. You think rza just let these labels use his brand for free? Lmao

Rza leveraged the W to get 12/14 of those albums on labels DIRECTLY. Id goto peoples houses and for years see these off brand wu albums and get told its trash.

93-97 the logo meant 10/10 classic. Hip hop legend defined.

97-99 meant ya lucky to get a decent album at all, 3x the output from mcs noone even knew using a logobalready established by a completely different set of guys. Wu fell off could hear it anywhere.

Wutang more than ANY other group has this problem. If you wanna act like the defined space of time, it wasnt as true. Ok i agree. But it STILL STARTED with them. Would cilvaringz ever be able to rock ANY logo from another hip hop artist? NEVER. Look how they react to dude in doc. they embarassed by rzas moves. Because as seen in the doc, rza will give anyone a W if It gets him something. That guy now represents THEM...

Theres like 100 FAKE wu affiliates for a reason and all of this is why RZA TOOK THE W BACK and suing over it. Fake websites like chambermusik.com and guys signed by wu managers ABUSING the logo.


Make a poll if you think im bugging. Ok. People disagree with me all the time. Im not tryna write a thesis on wutangs fall off.

BUT I KNOW THIS. no man ever said those groups were better than the clan or was anyones fav artists/albums. Ever. Ever. Ever. Neither album will show up in ANYONES, even nyc hip hop heads, top 50 albums list; first 7 wu albums tho?

So It went from classic to good, members replaced. Thats not dilution? Thats making it STRONGER? Seven straight 4.5/5 mic albums to 3 mic albums. You call that strengthening your brand?????

Im done here.

 

[Billy Ocean]

This is why i block you periodicly cause its like talking to a piece of concrete who can never be wrong and cant see things from both sides.

Well there is no right or wrong answer to if you you think the wubbrand was diluted. Its an opinion. But to pretend this wasnt talked about as far back as 1998 when it was really just sunz/killarmy is a LIE. Im looking for old source reviews cause i KNOW itll be mentioned but i dont think they exist. Wonder why....

I loved wutang and the killah bees. But i understand why everyone else started listening elsewhere. If you think islord 9th prince shogun and 60 sec assassin were adding to the wutang mythos ya fukking CRAZY. Even dom baretta 9 prodigal sunn and even hell razah (at time) were defintion of AVERAGE.

WU TANG WAS NEVER SEEN AS AVERAGE until these changes.

Killarmy and sunz are just the MOST POPULAR of the killer beez and the first ones to get the rub. They were brought up because of the BIGGER PROBLEM or lesser mcs getting rzas attention for MONEY and the wu brand dilution. Killarmy was putting on family and friends. Sunz of man was smashing 2 groups together under the wu umbrella that barely even lasted an ALBUM.

Gp wu didnt have anythingbto do with wutang... as a BUSINESS.. but pop is ghosts cousin. Rns is rza local producing peer, shyheim was down with then wu. On 36 chambers gp wu is shout out as “killer bees” just like the rest of em. Wu syndicate counts (total outsiders) but not gp????When the killerbees became “wutang” shyt went left.

The label made the decision but decisions like those started being made OVER and OVER post 97. You think rza just let these labels use his brand for free? Lmao

Rza leveraged the W to get 12/14 of those albums on labels DIRECTLY. Id goto peoples houses and for years see these off brand wu albums and get told its trash.

93-97 the logo meant 10/10 classic. Hip hop legend defined.

97-99 meant ya lucky to get a decent album at all, 3x the output from mcs noone even knew using a logobalready established by a completely different set of guys. Wu fell off could hear it anywhere.

Wutang more than ANY other group has this problem. If you wanna act like the defined space of time, it wasnt as true. Ok i agree. But it STILL STARTED with them. Would cilvaringz ever be able to rock ANY logo from another hip hop artist? NEVER. Look how they react to dude in doc. they embarassed by rzas moves. Because as seen in the doc, rza will give anyone a W if It gets him something. That guy now represents THEM...

Theres like 100 FAKE wu affiliates for a reason and all of this is why RZA TOOK THE W BACK and suing over it. Fake websites like chambermusik.com and guys signed by wu managers ABUSING the logo.


Make a poll if you think im bugging. Ok. People disagree with me all the time. Im not tryna write a thesis on wutangs fall off.

BUT I KNOW THIS. no man ever said those groups were better than the clan or was anyones fav artists/albums. Ever. Ever. Ever. Neither album will show up in ANYONES, even nyc hip hop heads, top 50 albums list; first 7 wu albums tho?

So It went from classic to good, members replaced. Thats not dilution? Thats making it STRONGER? Seven straight 4.5/5 mic albums to 3 mic albums. You call that strengthening your brand?????

Im done here.

Bunch of rambling and not making any sense. That's the norm for you. You still can't tell anyone how very strong Killarmy and Sunz of Man albums diluted the Wu brand. Continue typing up novels tho, breh.

 

[ig88]

Bunch of rambling and not making any sense. That's the norm for you. You still can't tell anyone how very strong Killarmy and Sunz of Man albums diluted the Wu brand. Continue typing up novels tho, breh.

You really talking novels after typing ya own up to start this convo huh? My sig gets another one.

You continue to live in my negs because you cant show me ANYONE claiming those albums made wu stronger when the clan themselves cant agree either. 5 mic to 3 mics to you is “strengthening a brand”. They musta been seen as FIRE way only ONE member of the 10 got on any of their shyt with any consistancy.

Make a thread. Ill make sure to ignore you after you realize that shyt is for wu stans and dc snipers only.

You musta been the guy who bought the wu syndicate album... another album on same LABLE that dropped before ugods.

these guys cant even remember which songs are on whats alhum and you over here harping on him bringing up killarmy and sunz like its all he meant talking to vlad who dont know shyt about wutang. 9th islord and shogun are WACK. You bout to go off and write how killa priest/sin aint wack? We all know they nice bro ; make an assumption, save ya pen game,

Maybe he shoulda named all the other no names only me and you remember and youd feel better. Idk. Im not crazy.

 

[Billy Ocean]

You really talking novels after typing ya own up to start this convo huh? My sig gets another one.

You continue to live in my negs because you cant show me ANYONE claiming those albums made wu stronger when the clan themselves cant agree either. 5 mic to 3 mics to you is “strengthening a brand”.

Make a thread. Ill make sure to ignore you after you realize that shyt is for wu stans and dc snipers only.

You musta been the guy who bought the wu syndicate album... another album on same LABLE that dropped before ugods.

these guys cant even remember which songs are on whats alhum and you over here harping on him bringing up killarmy and sunz like its all he meant talking to vlad who dont know shyt about wutang. 9th islord and shogun are WACK. You bout to go off and write how killa sin is nice i bet....

Maybe he shoulda named all the other no names only me and you remember and youd feel better. Idk. Im not crazy.

He mentioned Killarmy and Sunz of Man. You say they diluted the Wu brand. Killarmy and Sunz of Man put out dope ass albums. What 3 mic albums are you talking about? You not making any sense. You just continuiing to make long ass posts filled with inaccuracies and straight up and down lies. Ever since you began going around telling people that RZA was taking dudes beats and calling them his own I been calling you out for your bullshyt and you just making me look great right now.

 

[ig88]

He mentioned Killarmy and Sunz of Man. You say they diluted the Wu brand. Killarmy and Sunz of Man put out dope ass albums. What 3 mic albums are you talking about? You not making any sense. You just continuiing to make long ass posts filled with inaccuracies. Ever since you began going around telling people that RZA was taking dudes beats and calling them his own I been calling you out for your bullshyt and you just making me look great right now.

Oh now i get it. i had you on ignore for about a year cuz you follow me thread to thread, took you off an hr ago to see more wu talk and you mad over convos we had 9 months ago?

Dont forget ghost dont be writing all his own raps either! Guess what btw. Dont listen to last track on wu ep. youll be disssaapoiiinted ... rza taking verses but not beats. Ok. Lmao

Im at a loss you really just said that shyt. Wow.

I gave you waaaaaay too much credit. If id known you were a fukking autistic weirdo i woulda gave you dap and kept it moving. I thought you were just a try hard nas stan; fuz your a horrible wu stan not knowing wu share lyrics, rzas credit controversys or that the killerbees were the downfall of the group. Wu fell off talk musta hit you like a ton of bricks.

You right man. All 5/5 verses on that killarmy album. 9ths flows ahead of its time. He def influenced silk da shocker. Legendary. Islord is the best 6th man in hip hop. Sunz were such a dope group that their 2 best members left before the album even dropped. Both hip hop classics in anyones eyes.





Ya mudda

 

[Billy Ocean]

Oh now i get it. i had you on ignore for about a year cuz you follow me thread to thread, took you off an hr ago to see more wu talk and you mad over convos we had 9 months ago?

Dont forget ghost dont be writing all his own raps either!

Im at a loss you really just said that shyt. Wow.

I gave you waaaaaay too much credit. If id known you were a fukking autistic weirdo i woulda gave you dap and kept it moving. I thought you were just a try hard nas stan; fuz your a horrible wu stan not knowing wu share lyrics, rzas credit controversys or that the killerbees were the downfall of the group. Wu fell off talk musta hit you like a ton of bricks.

You right man. All 5/5 verses on that killarmy album. 9ths flows ahead of its time. He def influenced silk da shocker. Legendary. Islord is the best 6th man in hip hop. Sunz were such a dope group that their 2 best members left before the album even dropped. Both hip hop classics in anyones eyes.





Ya mudda

Post where I was following you from thread to thread. I see you in a Wu thread that I'm reading and I call your bullshyt out. There never was a RZA "credit controversy". You making shyt up

And those Killarmy and Sunz of man albums are universally considered dope as fukk by Wu fans. Don't know what the hell you talking about. Now all the verses on an album have to be 5/5 for an album to be dope? Lol. You're a fukking idiot.

 

[ig88]

Post where I was following you from thread to thread. I see you in a Wu thread that I'm reading and I call your bullshyt out. There never was a RZA "credit controversy". You making shyt up

And those Killarmy and Sunz of man albums are universally considered dope as fukk by Wu fans. Don't know what the hell you talking about. Now all the verses on an album have to be 5/5 for an album to be dope? Lol. You're a fukking idiot.

Yur just a silly nozz stan so you wouldnt know. You just need 5/5 verses and 1/5 beats to be happy.

Most of us like both. Killarmy members : 2 are 0/5 mcs, 3 are at best 3/5 and 1 is 5/5 ... with slamming production. yea it matters. Especially coming off 7 FLAWLESS 5/5 beats/verse albums.

Dont listen to the skit on new wu ep. dont wanna break ya heart when you hear that 25 yr old rza verse coming out gzas mouth. Yes im sure rza did ALLLLLL of it by himself... while being surrounded by a 50 man team of MUSICIANS.

 

[mobbinfms]

I know a lotta people got dissapointed similar to me asking for dr dre the chronic and my aunt buying me doctor dre and ed lover...

AyoBEZ :prodigylol:

 

[ig88]

AyoBEZ :prodigylol:

Only took yall a year. Welcome to the coli.

 

[mobbinfms]

Only took yall a year. Welcome to the coli.

I pulled up the receipts so I’ll go ahead and drop them

Caused mass confusion one christmas when I asked for the dr dre album (the chronic) and got some ed lover n dre shyt...

Dont feel so bad. I remember i asked for the chronic for xmas 94 and i got dre and ed lover album i was like "tgis is dre? Who tye fukk is this??"

 

[ig88]

I pulled up the receipts so I’ll go ahead and drop them

Grade A detective work.

Idk whats sadder. The fact that a random childhood memory of mine laying in ya head or that you 40 yrs old with kids searching for forum evidence and cheesing.

Registration been closed g. Yet im here with a FRESH account. Been a slow year without my stans in the rearview gotta admit. But whatever the man says.

 

[mobbinfms]

Grade A detective work.

Idk whats sadder. The fact that a random childhood memory of mine laying in ya head or that you 40 yrs old with kids searching for forum evidence and cheesing.

Registration been closed g. Yet im here with a FRESH account. Been a slow year without my stans in the rearview gotta admit. But whatever the man says.

:PPicard:
Why you all aggy?
By the way, if you’re gonna call me out for remembering your hilarious story about getting the wrong Dr. Dre album, don’t bring up a bunch of biographical information about me in the same breath. :prodigylol2: