Would you consider Aborigines black?

[IslandG]

I work with a dude from Ghana, he says in America he has no problem calling himself black but when he goes home it's meaningless. You saying he's wrong?

Firstly...I'm not sure what he means by "meaningless". You'd have to clarify that.

Secondly...I was speaking for Caribbean. Can't speak for Ghana as I've never been there. Coli brehs from Ghana will have to provide any input there.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

What's the context of all these quotes? So if Usain Bolt in an interview says that he's Jamaican, you'll take that to mean that he doesn't consider himself black or isn't proud to be black?

I never said that

Plus you're framing everything with respect to the US, more specifically what a black person travelling to the US would use to describe themselves to an American?
Put it this way...what would a black person from the US say when they travel to the Caribbean when asked by an islander "what are you?".

They would say "black" unless they were asked their country of origin.

I can tell you what they DO NOT say (since a many come as tourists to the Caribbean and you meet them everyday). They certainly DO NOT say "I'm black". They don't even say "I am African American". They say "I am American"

Aframs wouldn't bring up their nationality unless the question was posed in a way to make them respond that way.

Like I said, AA don't have any authority to say who's black and who isn't.

Not to say, Aframs are the authority on who and who isn't "black", but as I already stated, the way the term "black" is being used in the modern sense is an Afram concept.

 

[Misreeya]

A article a Sudanese girl that live in Canada





Now this is our own cultural space, some of the poster feel from their perspective she does not look "Sub Saharan", and they don't understand why she has written this article.

Here is some of the comments, maybe this will give you some perspective of other society perceptions of "race".

From a Jordan
alpharabbit 1 point 1 year ago



One of the main roadblocks to unity in the Arab world is a deep-rooted sense of racism. Khaleejis think they are racially superior than people from the Levant and Iraq. Levantines think they are superior than Iraqis. All of those guys think they are better than Egyptians. Egyptians think they are better than the Maghrebis. And all of the Arabs think they are better than Sudan.

Let me tell you as a Jordanian that you are 100% my blood brother in Arabism. I would be prepared to defend Sudan and the Sudanese people from any external threat until my last breath. There is no difference whatsoever between me and a single Sudanese. We belong to the same tribe within the international community, the Arab tribe.

مناضل الكيبوردkerat 5 points 1 year ago

Commit from our neighbor in the North Egypt.

To be honest the text is so full of hyperbole...as I was reading I thought to myself that this girl must be completely sub-saharan African looking. But she could easily pass as any khaleeji or even Egyptian or Moroccan... In fact if I just saw the picture I wouldn't have even described her as 'black'

I feel like all that painstaking navel-gazing was done needlessly and probably only because she's Sudanese so she feels the need to identify as being 'black'.

I'm not belittling what she's writing about, I'm just saying there are far blacker Arabs all over the region from Morocco to Egypt to Saudi to Kuwait to Iraq, and that I'm surprised she self-identifies so strongly as being 'black'.

I basked, and still do, in an undeniable shade privilege among black colleagues and peers despite being subject to virulent colourism and racism from white-passing and brown-identified Arabs.

What is this?? The girl is 100% brown for God's sake. When people say black they mean people who have sub-saharan African physical features. I've met Bahrainis and Kuwaitis that are 100% Arab who are far darker than she is. So either I've been oblivious to all sorts of racism all this time, or passages like this are just over-exaggerated and ridiculous:

One of my favourite pastimes is going ‘incognegro’, where I eavesdrop on Arabs having conversations in Arabic and surprise them with a confrontation at their racism (directed at others or towards myself).

sapphicninja[S] 7 points 1 year ago

commit from a Saudi

as I was reading I thought to myself that this girl must be completely sub-saharan African looking. But she could easily pass as any khaleeji or even Egyptian or Moroccan... In fact if I just saw the picture I wouldn't have even described her as 'black'

That was my first reaction too. But rereading the article, it seems she grew up in Canada, or so I'm guessing. The Western world's understanding of race complicates life for those of us in the diaspora in some ways, which is why I found this article so interesting. One of the stranger experiences I've had in the US is when a friend from Jeddah came over. Like the author, I'd never have described him as black, but in the US, he's Black. I on the other hand pass for white American, so despite both being from Jeddah, we end up on opposite ends of the American racial hierarchy, and he has to deal with a kind of racism here that never comes my way. I wager that if he'd grown up here he would have identified as Black, because that would have been his social reality here, probably in the same way my white cousins who have grown up here don't seem to see themselves as Arab.

The divisions between Arabs become kind of magnified here I think, because Arab spaces become a place of refuge from the racism of the wider society. I can see how getting racism from other Arabs would push you towards other identities or social spaces where one does find acceptance.

So either I've been oblivious to all sorts of racism all this time, or passages like this are just over-exaggerated and ridiculous:

I don't doubt it. I can't count the times Arabs have talked within earshot of me in Arabic assuming I couldn't understand them.

Sudan and the Sudanese are heavily otherized by the rest of the Arab world. Other Arabs don't take Sudan seriously as an Arab country because they fail to see it as anything but an unfortunate remnant of Arab imperialism gone way too far. They view Sudan as an illegitimate child they never wanted.

This is absolutely not true. Sudan is a full-blooded Arab country. In reality there is little difference between them and the Upper Egyptians.

the elephant in the racialised room: the conundrum of black-arabness • /r/arabs

 

[IslandG]

I never said that

But you put quotes from Wyclef et al. with no context. What was the implication of you posting Wyclef saying "I am Haitian". You could have easily posted a quote from Usian Bolt saying "I am Jamaican"
because I'm sure he's said it multiple times.

Aframs wouldn't bring up their nationality unless the question was posed in a way to make them respond that way.

Once again, this is not true. American tourists always quick to say they are Americans. Black or white.

Not to say, Aframs are the authority on who and who isn't "black", but as I already stated, the way the term "black" is being used in the modern sense is an Afram concept.

No it isn't. "Black people" isn't and will never be an American-defined term. Laughable. AA tellling Africans and Caribbean people they aren't black. . The things I read on the Coli sometimes. lol.

 

[TEH]

The Coli is obsessed with this idea, and it's genuinely bizarre as hell because I've never seen this shyt in my life. I've also been all around the islands (and southern Africa), and no one remotely thinks or speaks like these clowns keep insisting. I'm sitting here like reading this nonsense.

Just more proof that faux militants on the Coli really aren't about shyt. They learn everything from the Internet and all their interactions/experiences are on the Internet.

The more I dig into this site the more I see people who haven't left their city trying to pontificate on world issues and the more pathetic the site seems.

 

[Virtuous_Brotha]

Goddamn this thread is lit and confusing

honestly, all this bickering basically proves that race is a social construct and will be what people want it to be.

arguing over an ideology that is flawed to begin with

 

[Virtuous_Brotha]

Is he permanently banned?

no idea what he was even banned for but im pretty sure he'll be back with a vengance as he was the other time he was banned

 

[IllmaticDelta]

But you put quotes from Wyclef et al. with no context. What was the implication of you posting Wyclef saying "I am Haitian". You could have easily posted a quote from Usian Bolt saying "I am Jamaican"
because I'm sure he's said it multiple times.

They were random examples

Once again, this is not true. American tourists always quick to say they are Americans. Black or white.

White Americans identify as American unless they are a more recent immigrant type. Aframs almost identify by race first

No it isn't. "Black people" isn't and will never be an American-defined term.

It is though.

Laughable. AA tellling Africans and Caribbean people they aren't black. . The things I read on the Coli sometimes. lol.

 

[Naijan]

I never said that




They would say "black" unless they were asked their country of origin.




Aframs wouldn't bring up their nationality unless the question was posed in a way to make them respond that way.




Not to say, Aframs are the authority on who and who isn't "black", but as I already stated, the way the term "black" is being used in the modern sense is an Afram concept.

you sir are an idiot, if you really believe that.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

@Dreadknox77

 

[IllmaticDelta]

you sir are an idiot

What did I post that was incorrect?

 

[IllmaticDelta]

On the concept of "Blackness" in Jamaica

............isn't it telling that Garvey's wife learned to embrace "blackness" in the USA and not Jamaica

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[Naijan]

What did I post that was incorrect?

That black in the modern sense is a concept made by african american.

 

[Naijan]

But all in all black is a concept. That's why till this day people are still arguing on who is black.You are never gonna come to a conclusion. But to say AA created the concept of the term is dumb, when white people basically used the term and set the rules.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Stuart Hall (Jamaican)

Stuart Hall (cultural theorist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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..say "black" wasn't used in Jamaica until the 1970's, right around the time of the Civil Right and BlackPower in the USA