Will CM Punk one day surpass the likes of a Y2J, Angle or HBK?

[GoddamnyamanProf]

Mic skills didn't come into real play until kayfabe went away during the mid 90s. Everybody that come up in the 80s were covered by naive fans and a desire to believe. CM Punk was around since 2006 and didn't have a "pipe bomb" in him until the Rock headlined WM 28 so he could cry about it on a ramp. That's not someone who has shown consistent mic greatness. He's only been seen on a legit top level since 2011? And they had him under Nash during most of that...

CM Punk could NEVER do the type of promo Rock and Austin did the Raw before Survivor Series 2011..he doesn't have it in him. He's whole template for talking is based on having lived through what others have done and accomplished and turning it against them for a new audience to think is cool and different. If his best is against their best, he'll get more lost than he was when Eve Torres had him shook last year.

Is that why Punk embarrassed Dwayne during every encounter of their feud, Erik?

 

[Versa]

Yes I mean as champ, but you can go deeper than that if you want to, but it doesn't get any better for Phil. :smugcena:

And the fact Punk wasn't at the top of the card alone is a bit embarrassing because all those other guys were at the top when they were champ. It makes Punks reign look secondary and really if you get down to the facts, half the time it was.

I'm not going to say Phil hasn't dropped quality because he has but he's failed to bring in any additional audience, which is the job of the champion. And I can't make excuses for him because he had that belt for over a year and still couldn't produce, not even Cena has held it that long. You can't say he didn't have opportunities

To me, CM Punk not being in the main event is more a result of Vince abnormal love for Cena than it is a slight to Punk. Do you really feel Punk should've been behind shyt such as Nash vs Triple H, Cena vs Big Show, Cena vs John Laurianitis, etc? Punk vs Rock series produced numbers, as did his matches with Cena for the belt. Now you can say it's the other name being the draw, sure, but Punk had the belt and was hand picked to be their opponent so I don't think that happens unless the company believes in him.

Has Cena brought in more people as a champ? Because his multiple reigns seems to be synonymous with when the company started going down hill lol.

I can't speak for everyone else, but The Rock is the only reason why I'm watching again, and Punk is the only reason I'm continuing to watch. The product is pretty trash right now.

I also think it's unfair to say Punk isn't a drawn some of the best ever haven't been proven as being huge draws. Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, and Shawn Michaels all haven't been megadraws like Austin, Hogan, or Rocky.

 

[R=G]

Is that why Punk embarrassed Dwayne during every encounter of their feud, Erik?

This dude is mad..
CM Punk was champion in Nov 2012, right? Correct? Why was there only 8500 fans for this dynamic champion that is supposed to be the best thing going? Goes against the Rock? Now all of a sudden people want to watch him and hear what he has to say.

 

[23Barrettcity]

It's true about Hardy with being with WWE longer but this is where your truths stop.

Punk is not MILES better than Hardy in the ring lol. Punk is one of more overrated talents when it comes to the ring in the business. I always use the worst possible opponent worker for a wrestler to compare how well a guy can work. So ALL of Ryback's matches with Punk were AWFUL. Fans hated, Meltzer hated. Cena gets in there, he goes longer with him and had a better match. It's amazing. Punk's matches with Jericho were not what they should be. Everyone can agree on this. Cena has had better matches with Jericho too. I keep saying Cena, because everyone thinks he sucks in the ring. I actually can't wait to see Punk vs Brock just to see if he is up to it.

Back to the topic, Jeff WAS the 2nd biggest wrestler in the company for about 2 years stretch from June 2007 to about June 2009. Guy was maineventing PPVs against Triple H, Edge, Orton, Punk, and most of those for World or WWE championships. I mean what else do you want from him? More people came to see him than anyone else other than Cena, and at times, he was above Cena.

When you say that Jeff never had the burden of being "the guy" you may be right, because he always had Cena, Orton and Triple H in that stretch, but to me Punk has never, ever been THE guy either. Just because you are WWE Champ doesn't mean that anymore. If you want to go back to say 2006 when he was the World Champ on RAW, guy was curtain jerking/only appearing at like 930.

Then fast forward to this title reign and I mean Cena is out here facing John Laurinitis maineventing PPVs, fighting Big Show in Main Events of PPVs, going up against Dolph Ziggler for no reason at all in Main Events. Meanwhile Punk is champ, and the fans aren't really riveted for him. Yes the smark towns were all for him, but when they went to bumblefukk Tennessee, no one was checking out his house shows. He is probably one of, if not the one lowest rated WWE champions of ALL TIME. So the fans tuned out, people on here were complaining, it was all over the place. He has his fans, and he should. He has a niche, but it's not a broad appeal to people.

And you can blame the booking, the writing, etc..But if Punk really wanted to change the business like he said, he could have done more to add to his championship reign. He could have complained that John Laurintis should not be maineventing PPVs in 2012. Hell when Hulk Hogan talked Vince into putting him and the Rock on last at Mania, Triple H and Jericho went down there to make sure the Championship (and the Kliq lol) is most important.

Punk was a cowardly heel facing a super baby face he did his part
Problem was ryback was green as shyt and shouldn't have been there .
Jerichos whole troll return was wasted and that's on him not punk
This match [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12zn8il-u6g"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12zn8il-u6g[/ame]
Is how the feud should of been . You sound like one of those emo kids that Paint their faces and wear Jeff's torn up arm sleeves

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

This dude is mad..
CM Punk was champion in Nov 2012, right? Correct? Why was there only 8500 fans for this dynamic champion that is supposed to be the best thing going? Goes against the Rock? Now all of a sudden people want to watch him and hear what he has to say.

Is that how it happened in your world?

What part of my singular, factual sentence made you think I was mad? While we're at it, why are you even pretending to be able to sense how another person is feeling when you're autistic?

 

[El Cocodrilo]

Let's say The Rock was introduced in this current era.
Would he still be a mega-draw if he got his start feuding against John Cena and Sheamus? Right now he'd be getting handed scripts to read as Rocky Maivia and he would have to read it and like it or get moved to Saturday Morning Slam.

There is no point to anything that happens in the E right now

How are fans supposed to be drawn to this product?


You wanna see Punk draw? GIVE ME THE BOOK johnboy


...


Punk is my favorite of this era, and when it's all said and done he will be remembered as having surpassed Kurt and Y2J. Not HBK though.
The way he's going, when it IS all said and done Daniel Bryan will probably be remembered as the best of this era.

 

[R=G]

Is that how it happened in your world?

What part of my singular, factual sentence made you think I was mad? While we're at it, why are you even pretending to be able to sense how another person is feeling when you're autistic?

I love when they avoid the truth and facts...

 

[Omar Little]

Surpass HBGOAT?

He could pass Y2J and Angle but I don't have him above those guys yet.

Basically.

 

[R=G]

Let's say The Rock was introduced in this current era.
Would he still be a mega-draw if he got his start feuding against John Cena and Sheamus? Right now he'd be getting handed scripts to read as Rocky Maivia and he would have to read it and like it or get moved to Saturday Morning Slam.

There is no point to anything that happens in the E right now

How are fans supposed to be drawn to this product?


You wanna see Punk draw? GIVE ME THE BOOK johnboy


...


Punk is my favorite of this era, and when it's all said and done he will be remembered as having surpassed Kurt and Y2J. Not HBK though.
The way he's going, when it IS all said and done Daniel Bryan will probably be remembered as the best of this era.

U keep forgetting that everything sucks because of there being no Rock-like leader.

 

[StatUS]

fukk it I'm gonna go ahead and say it.

HBK bored me outside some all-time great matches.

Jericho moves between midcard and main event level every few months. Even when he wasn't part time.

Angle's the GOAT to me but the last great thing I seen him do was carry Kennedy to a classic which he should have gotten a medal for.

Punk's been consistently good since 05 in ROH. The only times when he's kind of fell back was when he was coming back from injury with that New Nexus angle and a few months after the Reality Era ended. Besides that he's been showing out for damn near 8 years straight.

 

[TNC]

To me, CM Punk not being in the main event is more a result of Vince abnormal love for Cena than it is a slight to Punk. Do you really feel Punk should've been behind shyt such as Nash vs Triple H, Cena vs Big Show, Cena vs John Laurianitis, etc? Punk vs Rock series produced numbers, as did his matches with Cena for the belt. Now you can say it's the other name being the draw, sure, but Punk had the belt and was hand picked to be their opponent so I don't think that happens unless the company believes in him.

Has Cena brought in more people as a champ? Because his multiple reigns seems to be synonymous with when the company started going down hill lol.

I can't speak for everyone else, but The Rock is the only reason why I'm watching again, and Punk is the only reason I'm continuing to watch. The product is pretty trash right now.

I also think it's unfair to say Punk isn't a drawn some of the best ever haven't been proven as being huge draws. Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, and Shawn Michaels all haven't been megadraws like Austin, Hogan, or Rocky.

Excuse me? ABNORMAL love for Cena?!? Really bruh? :smugcena:


Look, let me keep it 100% with you. I'm not really a Cena fan, I'm rather apethetic towards him, but Cena is without a doubt the all around most reliable talent on the roster. Not only is he a good (not GREAT unless he WANTS to be) talent on the mic and in the ring but he is consistant, rarely injured and actually a DRAW. The problem with this era is that nobody else has really been able to draw numbers that surpass Cena except for Edge. Its not like they haven't given NUMEROUS people a chance to run with the ball (Hardy, Punk, Orton, Miz, Batista, etc.). Going by numbers alone is makes no sense to put the strap on anyone BUT Cena unfortunately.


And as far as The Rock goes, you gave the EXACT REASON why him coming back was a great idea in the first place. TONS of people, yourself included came back solely for him and stayed around because Rock was able to work with a talent like Punk and give him a new audience. This is one area even The Rock haters gotta give some credit to Dwayne for.


And Angle and Jericho were 2nd tier draws in the Attitude Era, which is equivilent to being a 1st tier draw in any other era, their track record is straight, but nobody has touched Rock, Austin and Hogan yet.

 

[TNC]

fukk it I'm gonna go ahead and say it.

HBK bored me outside some all-time great matches.

Jericho moves between midcard and main event level every few months. Even when he wasn't part time.

Angle's the GOAT to me but the last great thing I seen him do was carry Kennedy to a classic which he should have gotten a medal for.

Punk's been consistently good since 05 in ROH. The only times when he's kind of fell back was when he was coming back from injury with that New Nexus angle and a few months after the Reality Era ended. Besides that he's been showing out for damn near 8 years straight.

I always felt HBK's career was peaks and valleys, but he's one of the best all around talents the WWE has ever produced. However tenure would/could be the only reason he would/could go over Angle or Jericho on an all time list IMO. But they are all top 10 along with Bret, Rock, Austin, Hogan and Flair

 

[StatUS]

I always felt HBK's career was peaks and valleys, but he's one of the best all around talents the WWE has ever produced. However tenure would/could be the only reason he would/could go over Angle or Jericho on an all time list IMO. But they are all top 10 along with Bret, Rock, Austin, Hogan and Flair

I could never get into anything Michael's did in the 90s even DX vs Hart Foundation stuff I didn't see alot of unless someone taped it. WCW made it unfair in that time. Even when he came back I was only interested when he was chasing the title for two years with Cena and Jericho and one of those was a carry job.

I think Jericho's overrated as hell but I know he's great. Don't like him that much but the respect is there.

Personally to me it's:

Angle
Jericho=Punk
HBK

I do think Shawn and Jericho might be better workers but Punk's toned down alot of the shoot stuff that made him great in the Indy's. He doesn't work as well in that E style as the other two but he's found his formula lately that everyone in that company relies on to go beyond the limitations they set.

 

[Kang Deezy]

Jericho has never been THE guy tho, punk has.

He has surpassed Jericho IMO, and possibly Angle as well.

But I'm of the belief that HBK is the GOAT, I don't think Punk can touch him

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

apparently it's neg season