Why "Self Publishing" is bad for consoles

[MeachTheMonster]

show me the evidence when it comes to gaming...you shot yourself in the foot again.

The iTunes Store is laughed at by most "gamers" and is not respected as a good place to find good games. The indie game store on x360 was a failure, no one goes there looking for good games anymore. Plenty of steam users are now expressing their discontent for the hordes of shovelware on the shelves.

GameStop, which is a shytty company doesn't even provide images to some of their used games and they are still up and running after all these years. I didn't even read the rest of your shyt

not concerned with what company is shytty or not or comparing physical to digital stores. And what's the point of quoting/replying if you aren't gone to read what you are replying to? You just spout a bunch of bullshyt and insults without adding anything to the conversation.

You would think with all the nonsense you are throwing that Valve would be scrambling to make sure less games are on their service...if that makes sense.

Yeah I know. Valve can do no wrong. Would you like to get back to the subject at hand now?

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I agree that I really don't want to see a bunch of stuff like Dungeon Keeper and blatant clones. I don't know how you solve that problem without some sort of barrier to entry but I do think that is something Valve is trying to solve with the plan for eventual user-curated storefronts.

Speaking of barrier to entry, all of the other platforms we're talking about have that. XBO has the ID@ program, PS4 has the cost of dev kits (Sony is only lending them out for free to good, established devs) and Steam has greenlight. And for all three of these, there's still a final non-automated approval from the platform holder.

Those barriers are lower than ever for the next gen systems and gamers are pushing to have those barriers removed altogether but I think a lot of people don't understand the downfalls of that kind of system. An iTunes like store on home consoles would be bad for all involved except for the shovelware devs.

 

[Liquid]

The iTunes Store is laughed at by most "gamers" and is not respected as a good place to find good games. The indie game store on x360 was a failure, no one goes there looking for good games anymore. Plenty of steam users are now expressing their discontent for the hordes of shovelware on the shelves.

not concerned with what company is shytty or not of comparing physical to digital stores. And what's the point of quoting/replying if you aren't gone to read what you are replying to? You just spout a bunch of bullshyt and insults without adding anything to the conversation.


Yeah I know. Valve can do no wrong. Would you like to get back to the subject at hand now?

You were the one that said people will stop shopping and the indie game store on the 360 was a niche marketplace.

I doubt Apple cares what respect it earns from the "gamers" either, still no evidence that people are not shopping there.

The point still stands, there is no reason why Valve should curate the store when they have unlimited shelf space just because some are bothered to scroll a little bit longer through the list.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

You were the one that said people will stop shopping and the indie game store on the 360 was a niche marketplace.

I doubt Apple cares what respect it earns from the "gamers" either, still no evidence that people are not shopping there.

You can pretend you don't see it, but there is a lot of talk from people who don't agree with the practice on all platforms. iTunes is the worst, steam is quickly catching up.

The point still stands, there is no reason why Valve should curate the store when they have unlimited shelf space just because some are bothered to scroll a little bit longer through the list.

Like I said in the op which apparently none of you decided to read. I understand it works for steam(although people are beginning to complain), but I don't think it will work for consoles.

 

[Responsible Allen Iverson]

Self-publishing just means there will be less red tape and fees for indie developers to get their titles out there. It doesn't mean crap will flood the stores, like there will be 100 Flappy Bird clones on consoles. Bad games are going to come out regardless of self-publishing. The console makers approve games that they think have a chance of selling. They don't necessarily judge them for quality, or lots of games from large publishers would never make it to consoles. Xbox already tried this with the Indie Games store and they are not repeating that.

 

[Kodie]

Those barriers are lower than ever for the next gen systems and gamers are pushing to have those barriers removed altogether but I think a lot of people don't understand the downfalls of that kind of system. An iTunes like store on home consoles would be bad for all involved except for the shovelware devs.

The current status quo for barrier to entry seems to be doing a good job of keeping really nasty stuff (like Dungeon Keeper and blatant clones) off the respective stores. I do indeed want it to be lowered but I also want it to be done in a way that's careful. That's why I applaud Valve's cautious approach. Greenlight is a solid stopgap while Valve continues to figure out how they approach a "storefront API" they've been talking about.

The only reason I think it may not work on consoles is the same reason I'm not sure digital distribution yet works on consoles - Sony and MS just haven't proven to be as good at consistently delivering on pro-consumer experiences like Valve has.

 

[Fatboi1]

I also think you are worrying much about nothing tbh. I have said it time and time again, the PC library dwarfs console libraries due to sheer longevity. You are not going to have nearly the amount of options you have on the xbox marketplace as you find on steam.

You have nothing to worry about.

This is ultimately a non issue. Fancy wording will make it seem like it's something worth making a fuss about but again there's responsibility that falls onto the consumer. Meach is acting as if he REALLY is going to be making 50 threads per game wanting to get user impressions and thoughts on a particular game because he doesn't know if it's good or not. I see a bunch of games on Steam daily that I couldn't care less about and I simply just skip over ones that don't catch my eye. If one does, I look at the metacritic score which is listed right on the store page of the game, I look at a trailer and screens and then if it's cheap and sounds right up my alley I buy it. This whole process takes less than 2 minutes. Meach is making it seem to be that every game requires you perusing 23 different reviews and scavenging forums for gameplay impressions when that really doesn't happen. I can discern the difference between trash on Android and trash on Steam/PS/Xbox.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

The current status quo for barrier to entry seems to be doing a good job of keeping really nasty stuff (like Dungeon Keeper and blatant clones) off the respective stores. I do indeed want it to be lowered but I also want it to be done in a way that's careful. That's why I applaud Valve's cautious approach. Greenlight is a solid stopgap while Valve continues to figure out how they approach a "storefront API" they've been talking about.

The only reason I think it may not work on consoles is the same reason I'm not sure digital distribution yet works on consoles - Sony and MS just haven't proven to be as good at consistently delivering on pro-consumer experiences like Valve has.

The status quo has changed. Time will tell how it shakes out on consoles

 

[MeachTheMonster]

This is ultimately a non issue. Fancy wording will make it seem like it's something worth making a fuss about but again there's responsibility that falls onto the consumer. Meach is acting as if he REALLY is going to be making 50 threads per game wanting to get user impressions and thoughts on a particular game because he doesn't know if it's good or not. I see a bunch of games on Steam daily that I couldn't care less about and I simply just skip over ones that don't catch my eye. If one does, I look at the metacritic score which is listed right on the store page of the game, I look at a trailer and screens and then if it's cheap and sounds right up my alley I buy it. This whole process takes less than 2 minutes. Meach is making it seem to be that every game requires you perusing 23 different reviews and scavenging forums for gameplay impressions when that really doesn't happen. I can discern the difference between trash on Android and trash on Steam/PS/Xbox.

Once again. Pretend I'm the only one who can see the problem. I'm making stuff up. Everything is perfect

 

[daze23]

Plenty of steam users are now expressing their discontent for the hordes of shovelware on the shelves.

there has been a lot of backlash against Greenlight and Early Access on Steam. but that's where you expect these games to be vetted. that's kind of the thing: no one wants 'bad games', shovelware, cash-grabs, etc on their platform, but they need to be vetted somewhere

at some point it just seems like people's issue is their lack of self control. games like DayZ and Rust are plastered with warnings that they're unfinished, early-alpha, etc. but people buy them based on hype, and then get mad when they realize it's unfinished, early-alpha, etc

 

[MeachTheMonster]

there has been a lot of backlash against Greenlight and Early Access on Steam. but that's where you expect these games to be vetted. that's kind of the thing: no one wants 'bad games', shovelware, cash-grabs, etc on their platform, but they need to be vetted somewhere

at some point it just seems like people's issue is their lack of self control. games like DayZ and Rust are plastered with warnings that they're unfinished, early-alpha, etc. but people buy them based on hype, and then get mad when they realize it's unfinished, early-alpha, etc

That's the challenge. I don't think consoles are the place for vetting. Console gamers are not accustomed to have to do that. It was attempted and failed miserably on 360, which is why I don't understand why people are calling for ps4/X1 to have such open storefronts.

 

[Fatboi1]

Once again. Pretend I'm the only one who can see the problem. I'm making stuff up. Everything is perfect

No one is saying it's perfect but you're creating a problem in your head and now want a solution. I hardly play games on my phone but when I do I just check the top free games and download ones that seem cool. You realize most of the games are very small right?? Literally 4-10mb sometimes. Is it seriously bothering you that it took you 2 minutes out your time to find out a game is bad?? You're acting as if there is a myriad of trash games 50GB in size plastered all over digital online game stores. This is a situation of you wanting to hear yourself complain about something.

Here's a page on Steam I just screenshotted right now.

I don't know much about every game on that list but if I wanted to know a simple click on a title brings me to a page with enough information to make up my mind on whether or not i want a game. If the trailer doesn't convince me it's a good game then I just move on to another title. This process here takes literally 2 minutes. There's enough information out there on a game's page to make up your mind. You're making it seem like there's no information of the game online and that it's only one or two screenshots with a cheap price enticing you to buy it.
If you bought a game and you didn't like it, that's on you. There's no guarantee you'll like a game no matter what until you play it. I bought Smugglers Run from Gamestop a long time ago when I had no internet. I bought it because I saw the rockstar logo on the boxart. I got home, played it and returned it because it was garbage. I didn't complain to the store owner about why is there trash on the shelf, I just returned it for a different game.

Fast forward to today and yes there's a BUNCH of games online but it seriously doesn't matter to me because the ones that are truly special have advertising and marketing making it known that it's going to be hot. There isn't some marketing blitz for trash games which exacerbate the issue here. I honestly don't find a problem with either store front. PS Store has a indie section which I typically don't pay attention to unless there's a demo to play. This issue is mostly a mobile gaming issue and those who play those games a lot aren't the same as us serious console/pc gamer. You think they go on android and "search" for a game they don't know about?? What person randomly picks up their phone, SEARCHES for a game with generic terms and then complain about too much results?? That's like getting annoyed at a lot of results from a google search.

Speaking of indie, Indie is not a "genre" so to speak so I don't see the need to separate them into their own category. I would've missed out on Hotline Miami, Joe Danger, Spelunky etc. if that happened. Those games that are truly something special makes way to the top somehow via word of mouth or reviews or marketing. What games on Xbox 1, PS4 or Steam right now is steamrolling the competition and is honestly trash?? What games are there right now on PS4/Steam that are gems trapped beneath crap?

 

[daze23]

That's the challenge. I don't think consoles are the place for vetting. Console gamers are not accustomed to have to do that. It was attempted and failed miserably on 360, which is why I don't understand why people are calling for ps4/X1 to have such open storefronts.

another issue is you might be waiting quite some time for these games to 'trickle down' from PC. to be clear, that's the route a lot of these games already take. and by the time they make it to consoles, it's 'old news' to PC gamers, and they're onto the next thing. it just makes it so consoles are perpetually behind as far as new and innovative games. that's one of the reasons I'm a PC gamer

 

[MeachTheMonster]

No one is saying it's perfect but you're creating a problem in your head and now want a solution. I hardly play games on my phone but when I do I just check the top free games and download ones that seem cool. You realize most of the games are very small right?? Literally 4-10mb sometimes. Is it seriously bothering you that it took you 2 minutes out your time to find out a game is bad?? You're acting as if there is a myriad of trash games 50GB in size plastered all over digital online game stores. This is a situation of you wanting to hear yourself complain about something.

Well you are surely missing out on the best Mobil games. The top lists are full of crap. Price or Bandwidth isn't the issue. It's the time it takes to look through the crap and the fact that you can't have confidence in what your buying unless you do a bunch of research.

Are the countless other people who bring up these issues just making stuff up so they can hear themselves complain? Devs talk about it, different game websites/publications talk about it. Jim sterling seems to be a very respected guy, he's talked about it. Do you think they all are just making shyt up?

Here's a page on Steam I just screenshotted right now.


I don't know much about every game on that list but if I wanted to know a simple click on a title brings me to a page with enough information to make up my mind on whether or not i want a game. If the trailer doesn't convince me it's a good game then I just move on to another title. This process here takes literally 2 minutes.

It's more than two minutes but even then two minutes times 100 games is more time than I'm willing to give researching. Like I said in the op. PC gamers seem to be ok with this, but i don't think it will work on consoles.

There's enough information out there on a game's page to make up your mind. You're making it seem like there's no information of the game online and that it's only one or two screenshots with a cheap price enticing you to buy it.
If you bought a game and you didn't like it, that's on you. There's no guarantee you'll like a game no matter what until you play it. I bought Smugglers Run from Gamestop a long time ago when I had no internet. I bought it because I saw the rockstar logo on the boxart. I got home, played it and returned it because it was garbage. I didn't complain to the store owner about why is there trash on the shelf, I just returned it for a different game.

It's not about liking a game or not. I understand I won't like some games. It's about the majority of games on a given platform being utter shyt. And there are no returns of digital games so the problem is exacerbated.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

another issue is you might be waiting quite some time for these games to 'trickle down' from PC. to be clear, that's the route a lot of these games already take. and by the time they make it to consoles, it's 'old news' to PC gamers, and they're onto the next thing. it just makes it so consoles are perpetually behind as far as new and innovative games. that's one of the reasons I'm a PC gamer

Thank you. And that's what I'm getting at. What works for PC gamers does not automaticaly work for console gamers.

I'd much rather wait for the games to trickle up, then to take the time to vet them myself. When I sit down in front of my tv I usualy only have an hour or two to play, I don't want to spend ANY of that time scrolling through hundreds of trash games