Why is it so hard for the Democratic Party to take accountability?

[Drip Bayless]

Exactly, trying to talk to people who are already Nazis or Nazi sympathizers is a waste of time. It's almost impossible to talk people out of cults.You think trying to talk to Germans pre-WW2 and convince them Jews weren't the problem, and what they really needed was economic populism would've worked?

You have to stop that type of cult ideology from spreading in the first place, which is why social media is such a big problem. Once the cat is out of the bag it's too late and they're too far gone.

No one was born a Nazi, they were made through propaganda, a shyt economy, and a political movement that gave them an outlet for their anger and desperation. Hitler didn’t just wake up one day with millions of devoted followers, the Nazi party built its base over the course of several years not only through racism and scapegoating but also by stoking fear. Trump has done the same thing, populists always use the same playbook, they stoke a fear of some "other" plotting to replace the majority and steal their rights and way of life. That kind of radicalization doesn’t happen in a vacuum, and it definitely isn’t inevitable. If fascism is cultivated, then so is resistance to fascism. The left’s job isn’t to write people off, it’s to prevent them from ever getting to that point. If you ignore how propaganda works and just assume all these people were 'always Nazis,' then you’ve already lost. Fascism grows because it offers a sense of belonging and simple answers (which are lies) to complex problems and it spreads like a cancer when people's pockets are hurting. The way to stop it isn’t by moralizing, it’s by offering a more compelling alternative before people are too far gone. Sitting back and saying ‘Oh well, they’re already Nazis, nothing can be done’ is how you lose. Recognizing that propaganda is what got them there in the first place means understanding that counter-propaganda can stop it

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Nothing I said was inflammatory? You took it as an insult because what said was true.

You voting third party with Trump on the ballot screams white male who won’t be impacted by Trunp’s racist policies.

What I said was completely valid. It’s not minorities who are unwilling to practice class politics, it’s white men. You need to ask your brethren why they are unwilling to come together with minorities to materially improve the lives of themselves and others.

Throughout history your people have shot themselves in the foot to keep other races down. Ask them for accountability not the party who is actually fighting to materially improve peoples lives

A large amount of Arabs/Persian didn't vote or vote third party because of Gaza.
This idea that voting third party is a white thing to do is a fallacy to make yourself feel better.

 

[Outlaw]

A large amount of Arabs/Persian didn't vote or vote third party because of Gaza.
This idea that voting third party is a white thing to do is a fallacy to make yourself feel better.

Red herring is also a fallacy and you just employed it shamelessly to make yourself feel better

 

[Drip Bayless]

A large amount of Arabs/Persian didn't vote or vote third party because of Gaza.
This idea that voting third party is a white thing to do is a fallacy to make yourself feel better.

You still wasting your time with dude? I been on the coli too long, the "just say it's a white people thing and call it a day" to dismiss any inconvenient point tactic doesn't work on me anymore

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Red herring is also a fallacy and you just employed it shamelessly to make yourself feel better

Why is what I just said a red herring?

 

[Outlaw]

Why is what I just said a red herring?

Arabs have shown they are willing to vote democrat as long as they aren’t getting “genocided”. When have white males as a voting bloc ever shown a willingness to put class economics over racial grievances?

 

[Pull Up the Roots]

This is a good take on how racism has been weaponized to undermine economic solidarity, but the idea that most of these voters are actively invested in the hierarchy oversimplifies things. White people have been conditioned to see economic gains for marginalized groups as a loss for themselves, but that conditioning was created, maintained, and reinforced by the ruling class precisely because economic solidarity is a threat to their power. The fact that racism has eroded support for social programs doesn’t mean that building a working class coalition is impossible, it means that the GOP has been better at dividing people than the Dems has been at uniting them. The New Deal wasn’t undone just because white conservatives suddenly got mad that Black people were benefiting it was also systematically dismantled by corporate elites and political operatives who spent decades turning economic justice into a "racial handout" issue. That process was engineered, not inevitable. The question isn’t just “How do you convince people to abandon a racialized hierarchy?” it’s “How do you prevent the ruling class from using race to divide working-class people in the first place?” That’s where the left has consistently failed. The right gives these voters an emotionally compelling story, a worldview where they are the rightful owners of prosperity, and "others" are taking from them. The left, instead of aggressively countering that narrative with an equally powerful alternative, usually defaults to either shaming those voters or some identity politics that only appeals to minorities and does nothing to address the financial hardship we're all feeling.

Historically, when class based movements have been strong enough, they've cut through racial division whether it was the multiracial labor movements of the early 20th century or even the temporary but real cross racial support for things like Social Security and Medicare before they were racialized by right wing propaganda. If the right can convince a struggling worker that an immigrant or Black person is their enemy, then the Dems should be able to convince them that the billionaire exploiting all of them is the real enemy. The fact that this hasn’t happened isnt proof that it’s impossible, it’s proof that the Dem's refuse to do it because they are beholden to the same corporate overlords.

I don't think the racial divisions themselves were deliberately engineered by elites in the way you're suggesting. Politicians and corporate interests absolutely took advantage of those existing prejudices, amplified them, and weaponized them for their own ends, but they didn't invent them. The reality is that many white Americans didn't need to be "tricked" into opposing class solidarity - they already saw their racial status as something worth preserving. And while it's true that social conditioning plays a role in shaping beliefs, that doesn't absolve them of responsibility for examining those beliefs, questioning them, or making better choices.

I just can't accept the belief that they were passive recipients, rather than active participants. I've lived too long to believe that. Racism in America wasn't something the ruling class created to divide people; it was already a core part of the country's foundation. Institutional chattel slaver, segregation, redlining, and every other form of racial exclusion weren't just cynical tools of economic elites, they were actively supported by huge segments of the white population who saw racial hierarchy as natural and necessary. Politicians weaponized those beliefs, but they didn't have to work very hard to do so.

That's why I think the problem isn't just that the Democrats failed to push an emotionally compelling class-based narrative, it's that many white voters don't see their class interests as more important than maintaining racial and cultural distinctions. Even if the Democrats tried harder to sell a economic justice message, what happens when a significant number of voters still reject it because they view any policy that benefits Black people as a threat?

I do think that *we* should fight harder to counteract right-wing propaganda, but I feel that that's only part of the equation. The other part is reckoning with the fact that a large portion of the electorate just doesn't need propaganda to oppose true class solidarity because they already do so instinctively, because that's the country we live in.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Arabs have shown they are willing to vote democrat as long as they aren’t getting “genocided”. When have white males as a voting bloc ever shown a willingness to put class economics over racial grievances?

When Bernie was about to win the nomination and Dem leadership sabotaged it. Thanks for playing. lol

 

[Outlaw]

When Bernie was about to win the nomination and Dem leadership sabotaged it. Thanks for playing. lol

Nah. Even if Bernie won the nomination he wouldn’t have won the white male vote over Trump. You’re smoking that socialist pipe dream if you think otherwise

 

[Drip Bayless]

I don't think the racial divisions themselves were deliberately engineered by elites in the way you're suggesting. Politicians and corporate interests absolutely took advantage of those existing prejudices, amplified them, and weaponized them for their own ends, but they didn't invent them. The reality is that many white Americans didn't need to be "tricked" into opposing class solidarity - they already saw their racial status as something worth preserving. And while it's true that social conditioning plays a role in shaping beliefs, that doesn't absolve them of responsibility for examining those beliefs, questioning them, or making better choices.

I just can't accept the belief that they were passive recipients, rather than active participants. I've lived too long to believe that. Racism in America wasn't something the ruling class created to divide people; it was already a core part of the country's foundation. Institutional chattel slaver, segregation, redlining, and every other form of racial exclusion weren't just cynical tools of economic elites, they were actively supported by huge segments of the white population who saw racial hierarchy as natural and necessary. Politicians weaponized those beliefs, but they didn't have to work very hard to do so.

That's why I think the problem isn't just that the Democrats failed to push an emotionally compelling class-based narrative, it's that many white voters don't see their class interests as more important than maintaining racial and cultural distinctions. Even if the Democrats tried harder to sell a economic justice message, what happens when a significant number of voters still reject it because they view any policy that benefits Black people as a threat?

I do think that *we* should fight harder to counteract right-wing propaganda, but I feel that that's only part of the equation. The other part is reckoning with the fact that a large portion of the electorate just doesn't need propaganda to oppose true class solidarity because they already do so instinctively, because that's the country we live in.

Now you're getting into strawman territory. Quote where I said corporate elites 'invented racism' or whatever you're talking about. I never claimed racism was created by the ruling class out of thin air, I said they've exploited, weaponized, and reinforced it to serve their interests. There’s a difference. Racism has been deeply embedded in America from the start, but without elite manipulation, it wouldn’t have been as politically and economically useful for dividing the working class. Racial hierarchy has been deliberately upheld and institutionalized because it prevented poor whites and black people from uniting against the actual ruling class. You’re acting like white voters rejecting class solidarity is purely an organic, ‘natural’ phenomenon, when in reality, that rejection was cultivated and sustained over generations through policy and propaganda that made whiteness a form of social currency. That's literally what white supremacy is

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Nah. Even if Bernie won the nomination he wouldn’t have won the white male vote over Trump. You’re smoking that socialist pipe dream if you think otherwise

To actually win the nomination Democrat white males would have had to been supporting him right?

 

[Outlaw]

To actually win the nomination Democrat white males would have had to been supporting him right?

Yes but what you’re saying proves my argument. Economic class politics is so unappealing to white males as a voting bloc, Bernie lost twice.

If your theory was correct Bernie would have landslided the primary just like Trump did his. Trump won in a dominating fashion in his primary because ran on racial class politics

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Yes but what you’re saying proves my argument. Economic class politics is so unappealing to white males as a voting bloc, Bernie lost twice.

If your theory was correct Bernie would have landslided the primary just like Trump did his

The first time he won but it was rigged against him. Ask Donna Brazile and Elizabeth Warren.

 

[Outlaw]

The first time he won but it was rigged against him. Ask Donna Brazile and Elizabeth Warren.

Even if I grant you that Bernie would have still lost the white male vote to Trump which proves my point

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Even if I grant you that Bernie would have still lost the white male vote to Trump which proves my point

Your point is a big hypothetical, it proves nothing.