Why is it so hard for the Democratic Party to take accountability?

Outlaw

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Your point is a big hypothetical, it proves nothing.
It’s facts. When’s the last time white males as a voting bloc voted for economic class benefits over perceived racial class benefits in a national election?

If white males were willing to vote 51/49 for democrats over republicans, republicans would never win lol
 

AnonymityX1000

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It’s facts. When’s the last time white males as a voting bloc voted for economic class benefits over perceived racial class benefits in a national election?

If white males were willing to vote 51/49 for democrats over republicans, republicans would never win lol
Bernie was never the nominee so it can't be a fact. Der!!!
 
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Now you're getting into strawman territory. Quote where I said corporate elites 'invented racism' or whatever you're talking about. I never claimed racism was created by the ruling class out of thin air, I said they've exploited, weaponized, and reinforced it to serve their interests. There’s a difference. Racism has been deeply embedded in America from the start, but without elite manipulation, it wouldn’t have been as politically and economically useful for dividing the working class. Racial hierarchy has been deliberately upheld and institutionalized because it prevented poor whites and black people from uniting against the actual ruling class. You’re acting like white voters rejecting class solidarity is purely an organic, ‘natural’ phenomenon, when in reality, that rejection was cultivated and sustained over generations through policy and propaganda that made whiteness a form of social currency. That's literally what white supremacy is
You didn't outright say that, but the way you outweigh its influence gives the impression.

I vehemently disagree with the bold. The idea that racism wouldn't have been as politically or economically useful without elite manipulation assumes that class solidarity was ever a viable or natural state in American history. IT WASN'T. The working class in the US has never been united across racial lines in any meaningful way, and it didn't take elites to impose that division.

White laborers overwhelmingly rejected alliances with Black people, not just because of elite propaganda but because they actively benefited from racial hierarchy. Even before legal codifications led to formalized racial distinctions, white workers saw themselves as superior to Black people and embraced that identity rather than class solidarity.

Yes, policies and propaganda reinforced and sustained racial divisions, but they weren't artificially imposed onto a naturally united working class. You seem to give more weight to elite influence over individual choice and I disagree. We are never going to see eye to eye on that.
 

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Because Moderates actually win elections.

Word to Bubba and Obeezy....both re-elected.
Sometimes:ld:

People want actual economic change that'll benefit all citizens and we aren't going to get that with moderates and conservatives

I think Gen Z and Young Millennials see the flaws with moderates and weren't raised to believe pragmatism is the only way.
 

Drip Bayless

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You didn't outright say that, but the way you outweigh its influence gives the impression.

I vehemently disagree with the bold. The idea that racism wouldn't have been as politically or economically useful without elite manipulation assumes that class solidarity was ever a viable or natural state in American history. IT WASN'T. The working class in the US has never been united across racial lines in any meaningful way, and it didn't take elites to impose that division.

White laborers overwhelmingly rejected alliances with Black people, not just because of elite propaganda but because they actively benefited from racial hierarchy. Even before legal codifications led to formalized racial distinctions, white workers saw themselves as superior to Black people and embraced that identity rather than class solidarity.

Yes, policies and propaganda reinforced and sustained racial divisions, but they weren't artificially imposed onto a naturally united working class. You seem to give more weight to elite influence over individual choice and I disagree. We are never going to see eye to eye on that.
You’re arguing against a point I never made. Nowhere did I say class solidarity was ever the natural state of America’s working class. What I said is that racial hierarchy has been deliberately upheld, institutionalized, and reinforced by the ruling class because it served their interests. That's not a theory, that’s just history. Of course, white people are racist, no one is denying that. But the idea that their rejection of class solidarity was purely organic, with elites just sitting back and watching, is historically inaccurate. You keep pushing this idea that I "over-weigh" elite influence, but all I’m saying is their influence matters, and it has been an active, strategic process. The ruling class didn’t just observe racism, they invested in it, structured it into law, and used it as a tool because it was profitable. In addition to white workers rejecting Black allies because they personally felt superior—they were also incentivized through policy, labor laws, and structural advantages that reinforced that choice.

No, we won’t see eye to eye, because you seem to think class division and racial hierarchy just naturally exist in a vacuum, while I recognize that even if the elite did not build it, they've maintained and reinforced it for reason. Dismissing elite manipulation as just an afterthought ignores the fact that racism was shaped into a tool of power. And that is literally why the system of white supremacy exists as a system. White supremacy is a system, white people didnt just magically wake up and unanimously decide they were superior to black people. That ideology was cultivated and reinforced over generations through laws, economic structures, and propaganda designed to uphold racial hierarchy for the benefit of the ruling class. The working class in the U.S. have never been united across racial lines because the ruling elite has spent centuries making sure of that. Acting like racial divisions just ‘naturally’ happened, with the elites as passive observers, completely ignores history. If class division along racial lines was so inevitable, then why did the ruling class actively pass laws, use state violence, and flood the media with propaganda to maintain it? Why were Black and white workers legally prohibited from organizing together? Why were labor unions racially segregated by design? Why did plantation owners deliberately offer small privileges to poor whites to keep them from aligning with enslaved people? You’re acting like the ruling class just happened to benefit from racial division, when in reality, they engineered and reinforced it at every turn because they knew that class solidarity was a real threat to their power. Saying ‘it didn’t take elites to impose that division is like saying "it didn’t take oil companies to make people dependent on fossil fuels," technically speaking, sure, but without their deliberate, systemic intervention, things would have played out very differently.
 

Gritsngravy

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The dems spent the last four years putting dirt on Kamala name, they knew for at least the last two years Joe couldn’t run again, Joe said he was only doing one term at first before he held the party hostage, nobody in the party believed Kamala was going to win, they let trump skate on the Jan 6th shyt

Now with this information I see a lot of people waxing poetic about how voters are retarded, trump is destroying democracy/facism etc.

Well it seems like to me the dems either are just as retarded as the voters or they cool with a second trump presidency

Yes the next four years everyone should be reminded about the incompetence of the dems, for every thread about trump or whoever doing whatever should be an equal amount of threads about dems allowing it to happen, they are directly involved in why the situation is what it is right now, and I have yet to see or hear anyone dispute that
 

Drip Bayless

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nikka did a whole Nazi salute on stage and we still talking about democrats.
Yeah, and while you’re pointing at the obvious fascist doing a Nazi salute, the Democrats, who outspent the GOP by hundreds of millions, still couldn’t stop Trump. Maybe, just maybe, it’s worth talking about why the only other major party in this country is so bad at countering literal fascism. Nobody is ignoring how dangerous Trump and his movement are, but sitting around yelling ‘look at the Nazi!’ over and over isn’t a political strategy. If the Democratic Party was actually effective at fighting back, we wouldn’t be in this position. But nah, let’s just keep pretending that all criticism of Democrats = secret Trump support. That mindset clearly worked out great this election.
 

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The very same rights the Republican party is actively destroying rn :dead:

You live in a two party system, one of those parties has a young, democratic socialist wing — vote locally, in special elections and your midterms if you want real change


And that's who should be in the forefront. This is how out of touch the Democratic leadership is
 

Uachet

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The truth is that it is hard for most humans to take accountability. Since organizations are filled with humans, and the number of humans who will take accountability is normally smaller than the number who will seek to shirk it, the organization itself will a lot of times not take accountability.

A leader who is willing to stand up and accept responsibility for their organization's mistakes is rare indeed. Just look at Trump. He is loud with his denial of responsibility when things go wrong, but others are not that different from him, though far less vociferous in their denials.
 

Drip Bayless

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The dems spent the last four years putting dirt on Kamala name, they knew for at least the last two years Joe couldn’t run again, Joe said he was only doing one term at first before he held the party hostage, nobody in the party believed Kamala was going to win, they let trump skate on the Jan 6th shyt

Now with this information I see a lot of people waxing poetic about how voters are retarded, trump is destroying democracy/facism etc.

Well it seems like to me the dems either are just as retarded as the voters or they cool with a second trump presidency

Yes the next four years everyone should be reminded about the incompetence of the dems, for every thread about trump or whoever doing whatever should be an equal amount of threads about dems allowing it to happen, they are directly involved in why the situation is what it is right now, and I have yet to see or hear anyone dispute that
Repped, I swear I dont know what tf is so hard for them to get this. The Dems faceplanted in slow motion for four years, and now they want to act shocked that they lost. They spent more time kneecapping Kamala than building her up, watched Biden deteriorate in real time, let Trump skate on Jan 6, and then just crossed their fingers and hoped ‘Orange Man Bad’ would be enough to coast to victory. And now that their brilliant strategy failed, suddenly it’s "the voters are stupid". Nah, lets be real, like you said either the Democrats are just as stupid as the voters they’re blaming, or they were fine with a second Trump presidency. Maybe it’s both.
And yes, people should absolutely be RELENTLESS about holding the dems accountable for this SPECTACULAR FAILURE. Every time someone posts about Trump doing some dystopian nonsense, there should be an equal number of posts reminding people that the dems let it happen. They are directly responsible for why we’re in this mess. It’s wild how some people refuse to admit the party that outspent Trump by hundreds of millions still fumbled the bag this hard. Like, at a certain point, you gotta stop blaming the voters and start asking why the opposition party keeps losing to a guy who was impeached twice, indicted four times, and got his homies doing Nazi salutes on stage.
 

NYC Rebel

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The dems spent the last four years putting dirt on Kamala name, they knew for at least the last two years Joe couldn’t run again, Joe said he was only doing one term at first before he held the party hostage, nobody in the party believed Kamala was going to win, they let trump skate on the Jan 6th shyt

Now with this information I see a lot of people waxing poetic about how voters are retarded, trump is destroying democracy/facism etc.

Well it seems like to me the dems either are just as retarded as the voters or they cool with a second trump presidency

Yes the next four years everyone should be reminded about the incompetence of the dems, for every thread about trump or whoever doing whatever should be an equal amount of threads about dems allowing it to happen, they are directly involved in why the situation is what it is right now, and I have yet to see or hear anyone dispute that
Without fail
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