Why are black people in south/Latin America completely missing from their society's public sphere?

[Kublai Khan]

Nice argument bob

 

[Consigliere]

Nice argument bob

My bad, I wasn't sure if you were being serious or just making shyt up.

 

[DonFrancisco]

Whatever you think of the African American situation, you can't deny a huge progress has been made when it comes social advancement. There are black mayors, senators, attorney generals, and even the most powerful man in the country is black. African American influence/presence in the media is also very strong.

So how come our cousins south of the border haven't been able to replicate this? Even Brazil, which is supposed to have the biggest black population outside Africa has practically no black involvement in the public sphere. Any reason for this? Are they not as aggressive as African Americans when it comes to fighting for their rights or is there something else?

Racism is a way in suppressing wages and rights. Essentially making a slave-like class to benefit the "decedents" of the European ruling class. From what I know, this isn't a black example but Bolivia basically 1950 until 2006, there has been a continuous battle (figuratively and literally) between the "ethnic" minority (made up of 70%) of the population and the ruling white and mestizo class. It took one Latin American country 56 years to somewhat deal with race issues. In some ways they have made more progress than the U.S., in some ways less in the race front. That is a lot of work for a society and a nation to try to tackle.

Some people might look at that very long struggle for rights, and might feel it is too much work. The Elite on the other hand, will make sure their power gripe doesn't escape and make sure that such revolution don't happen. During that time in Bolivia's social upheaval nations like Brazil, Chile, Argentina, and the U.S. try to make sure the ruling Euro class came out on top, while only making small reforms to improve the live of the indigenous people.

The elite in South America work together to maintain power and every so often get help from either Russia, China, Japan, or the US.

It is funny, racism and classism go hand in hand with both parts of the world.

 

[Primordial]

i missed this post

but to answer the question, i dont think its a different racism, i think its the same racism and i think both countries were founded by the same people from the point of view of the african slave

and yes i think its a very valid comparison, in fact i think brazil is a country that has the most similar historical origin to the united states except for canada and mexico

although the ratios are different, they had the same racial mixture (influxes of european colonists and african slaves and native americans), they both had vast land resources, they both had colonial origins and slave economies

so its important to understand why they turned out differently, not just in terms of race but in terms of economics, i would assert that the difference was the us promoted individual freedom and capitalism

most similar historical origin to the united states? i mean i can sort of understand Canada, but Mexico?

Ur asking why they turned out differently based on your "historical origins" theory of both nations having the same racial mixture, then nonchalantly brushing off how the ratios were and still are vastly different. Hint: It makes a huge difference in how racial relations are fostered (Open a history book)

Comparing vast land resources? Brazil isn't the only developing nation in the world with vast land resources. Don't even try to oversimplify this topic like ur "racial mixture" theory.

Slave economies: U comparing Brazil with their sugar and minerals to King Cotton?

And then of course they both had "colonial origins"

If you don't understand why two nations with two completely different colonizers (one nearing its peak, while the other had seen better days) and colonial systems/castes can turn out different then ur just

 

[Consigliere]

@Kublai Khan

Since I try to bring enlightenment here are some #'s:

According to Ancestry.com: the average African American is 29% European
... 23andme.com: 22% European
... FamilyTreeDNA.com: 22.83% European
... National Geographic's Genographic Project: 19% European
... AfricanDNA: 19% European

"35% of all African American males descend from a White male ancestor who fathered a mulatto child somewhere in the slavery era, most probably from rape or coerced sexuality."

Source: theroot.com, Henry Louis Gates Jr.

 

[theworldismine13]

most similar historical origin to the united states? i mean i can sort of understand Canada, but Mexico?

Ur asking why they turned out differently based on your "historical origins" theory of both nations having the same racial mixture, then nonchalantly brushing off how the ratios were and still are vastly different. Hint: It makes a huge difference in how racial relations are fostered (Open a history book)

Comparing vast land resources? Brazil isn't the only developing nation in the world with vast land resources. Don't even try to oversimplify this topic like ur "racial mixture" theory.

Slave economies: U comparing Brazil with their sugar and minerals to King Cotton?

And then of course they both had "colonial origins"

If you don't understand why two nations with two completely different colonizers (one nearing its peak, while the other had seen better days) and colonial systems/castes can turn out different then ur just

i actually posted a link to a book for the edification of my fellow posters http://www.thecoli.com/posts/9343533/

you just have to read the intro not the whole book, the intro breaks things down pretty good and explains why the us and brazil are brothers from another mother

and my point is that from the point of view of the african slave, people from england and people from the iberian peninsula are the same people, so from that perspective mexico and the united states and the rest of latin america are similar

and that the reason the us came out ahead is because they had notions of individual freedom and capitalism that didnt exist strongly in south america even amongst the whites of south america, if you disagree that's fine but im not trolling, ill put my historical analysis against anybody anytime

 

[Tommy Knocks]

so u not gonna answer @theworldismine13 ??

what question was that? Been going back and forth with an ignorant person who has no idea what they're talking about you tend to over look the nonsense they're asking.

 

[theworldismine13]

what question was that? Been going back and forth with an ignorant person who has no idea what they're talking about you tend to over look the nonsense they're asking.

But the question still stands is how a country that has more black people than the us have less black media presence than the us when we know the us is a racist ass country, the only logical conclusion is that brazil is more racist than the us

 

[Tommy Knocks]

I've already answered this question.

1) Prados, which would be considered black in the U.S, but not Brazil (think Neymar/Halle Berry) are VERY WELL represented in the media.

2) If the U.S only had 50 stations, I highly doubt we'd have as many blacks on TV period, on top of that % wise, meaning shows that are straight white washed, like Friends, VASTLY outnumber the amount of black shows, black lead roles on tv, you showed me 4, do you know how many we have on prime time, and cable? hundreds. We're actually the same percentage as Brazil,but it doesnt look like that because we have a shyt load of material, pump out WAY more movies, thus being able to cast our population more but out of all the movies we have per month...how many of them have a black lead, or are black movies? How many did we have this year? compared to the white ones?

3) The best representative is films, rather than sitcoms. Films don't revolve around the same selective people (friends), they're a storyline with many more complex characters. With that being said, WATCH 10 BRAZILIAN MOVIES and tell me you don't see the same amount of black people and a massive number of prados as the U.S.

To simplify.

Brazil has 4 major movies per year, only have 1 with loads of black people.

U.S has 40 major movies per year, 10 have loads of black people.

same percentage.

 

[Gains]

Racism is a way in suppressing wages and rights. Essentially making a slave-like class to benefit the "decedents" of the European ruling class. From what I know, this isn't a black example but Bolivia basically 1950 until 2006, there has been a continuous battle (figuratively and literally) between the "ethnic" minority (made up of 70%) of the population and the ruling white and mestizo class. It took one Latin American country 56 years to somewhat deal with race issues. In some ways they have made more progress than the U.S., in some ways less in the race front. That is a lot of work for a society and a nation to try to tackle.

Some people might look at that very long struggle for rights, and might feel it is too much work. The Elite on the other hand, will make sure their power gripe doesn't escape and make sure that such revolution don't happen. During that time Brazil, Chile, Argentina, and the U.S. try to make sure the ruling Euro class came out on top, while only making small reforms to improve the live of the indigenous people.

The elite in South America work together to maintain power and every so often get help from either Russia, China, Japan, or the US.

It is funny, racism and classism go hand in hand with both parts of the world.

this is to much for the average coli poster to compute

 

[theworldismine13]

I've already answered this question.

1) Prados, which would be considered black in the U.S, but not Brazil (think Neymar/Halle Berry) are VERY WELL represented in the media.

thats just a lie, and the only "proof" you have provided contradicts you

http://www.pinterest.com/bwofbrazil/black-actors-and-black-actresses-of-brazil/

2004 film of director Joel Zito Araújo starring a 90% black cast with top Afro-Brazilian actors like veterans Milton Gonçalves, Ruth de Souza and Léa Garcia along with actors from the current generation, Taís Araújo, Thalma de Freitas, Rocco Pitanga and Maria Ceiça. While black films are common in the US, the obstacles for such films are huge in Brazil. The film is available on DVD (W/English subtitles) and deals with the secrets and issues of two generations of a black family.

you are saying they are will represented, and they are saying they arent, who should we believe? hmmmm

2) If the U.S only had 50 stations, I highly doubt we'd have as many blacks on TV period, on top of that % wise, meaning shows that are straight white washed, like Friends, VASTLY outnumber the amount of black shows, black lead roles on tv, you showed me 4, do you know how many we have on prime time, and cable? hundreds. We're actually the same percentage as Brazil,but it doesnt look like that because we have a shyt load of material, pump out WAY more movies, thus being able to cast our population more but out of all the movies we have per month...how many of them have a black lead, or are black movies? How many did we have this year? compared to the white ones?

thats just bullshyt, there is zero evidence to support what you are saying, none, there is nobody outside of yourself saying that, not even brazilians themselves saying its the same

the reason why they are more blacks in american media is because blacks in the us are more organized and we complain more and we use white people's own rules in our interest

3) The best representative is films, rather than sitcoms. Films don't revolve around the same selective people (friends), they're a storyline with many more complex characters. With that being said, WATCH 10 BRAZILIAN MOVIES and tell me you don't see the same amount of black people and a massive number of prados as the U.S.

To simplify.

Brazil has 4 major movies per year, only have 1 with loads of black people.

U.S has 40 major movies per year, 10 have loads of black people.

same percentage.

not even brazilians from your own link agree with you, thats pathetic, maybe you need to google something else, cuz nobody believes a word that is coming out of your mouth

you are obviously fascinated by tokenism and seem to wallow in it, and you want us to join you in wallowing in some tokenism you see in brazlian media that need even brazilians co sign

 

[theworldismine13]

i cringe thinking that tommy is in brazil repping black americans, instead of teaching game on black power, hes teaching game on the benefits of tokenism

 

[Tommy Knocks]

^^^ feel free to step on a plane and go there yourself then.

thats just a lie, and the only "proof" you have provided contradicts you

http://www.pinterest.com/bwofbrazil/black-actors-and-black-actresses-of-brazil/



you are saying they are will represented, and they are saying they arent, who should we believe? hmmmm

That article is not written by a brazilian.

thats just bullshyt, there is zero evidence to support what you are saying, none, there is nobody outside of yourself saying that, not even brazilians themselves saying its the same

you have zero evidence percentage wise that african americans are more represented in media than negros and prados in brazil. you haven't even seen more than 5 brazilian movies yourself.

the reason why they are more blacks in american media is because blacks in the us are more organized and we complain more and we use white people's own rules in our interest

not even brazilians from your own link agree with you, thats pathetic, maybe you need to google something else, cuz nobody believes a word that is coming out of your mouth

The author of that link is an AA

you are obviously fascinated by tokenism and seem to wallow in it, and you want us to join you in wallowing in some tokenism you see in brazlian media that need even brazilians co sign

I dont know wtf tokenism is. I am just a dude that travels the world, meets a lot of people, and asks a lot of questions. I never go to a place thinking I know it all. I go there ignorant, and get educated by asking questions. I then relay said information, back home. whether you want to take it, is up to you. If you don't, get on a fukking plane.

If I were you, I wouldnt go to brazil thinking you know everyting and telling people "NO no no thats not true" because you'll just come off like a typical arrogant gringo...you know...the term they use for white people that do the same shyt you're doing. Thinking they know it all because of a couple of articles they read. I made that mistake once, at a very young age, and upset a group of people, I'll never do that again.

I actually got pissed off with some europeans last week at the bar because they had the audacity to be like "I wanted to ask you a question, no offense or anything, but do you own a gun? we here all americans love guns". fukking idiot. I already know this fool saw some stats online, newspaper etc etc. and now thinks he knows the U.S. without having step foot in the country. That's what you're coming off like right now.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

Funny I'm posting in this thread. I'm watching a mexican movie called "El Infierno" right now. its supposed to be a satirical comedy on the cartel, but this shyt is actually kind of dark. like this is not funny, this is horrible, nikkas is getting blasted, left on the side of the rode, folks are doing blow before hits, nikkas is fukking whores. I dont see whats supposed to be so funny about this.

The movie is gangsta tho, and the hitman, I guess I can see how its supposed to be a mockery cause he's an old goofy dude, but he's not actually "goofy" per U.S standard. Dude just acting real if you ask me.

anyways, this thread shows mestizos, sprinkle of indigenous, zero gringos not even the police. Having been to this part of mexico myself, I would say this is an accurate representation of the local population. TJ and Juarez doesn't have a lot of gringo mexicans like that, Mexico City and its province on the other hand.....

but yea. I recommend it, good watch, you'll have to find the subtitles separate but its easy to find. I love how the Havana Festival winners are all unique movies. Its not like the Oscars where time and time again the winners are those big orchestra dramas. Havana is more like Cannes in a sense.

 

[PikaDaDon]

I stopped reading 5 pages in. This back and forth is mad corny. I just want to know the bottom line: Can a black person move to one of these South American countries and have a good life?