Cattle Mutilation
Superstar
Correct me if I’m wrong, but no one in the doc has actually admitted that any decision they made played any part in WCW dying, right?
Who killed WCW produced by The Rock
- Thread starter avon barksdale
- Start date
Not outright directly
Cattle Mutilation
Superstar
I’m glad they pointed out how WCW started doing a bunch of short term fixes for ratings that were detrimental in the long term.
Saysumthinfunnymike
VOTE!!!
"Crash TV" style of booking never works in the long term.
threattonature
Veteran
I think it could work long term as long as it makes sense. The problem with crash TV that I've seen is that everybody that tried it would have non-sensical swerves happen for the sake of swerves or just throwing a bunch of random shyt at the wall. Or like Russo where every match ended with a melee and hardly ever any clean finishes. Basically I think when crash TV is attempted they go too over the top with it
How Bret Hart was used has almost nothing to do with WCW beating or losing to WWF, let alone WCW going out of business. Anyone watching at the time, particularly as a kid, knows tons of kids started watching wrestling for the first time in 98 and 99 when wrestling became the hot show for kids. The simplest reason that WWF ended up turning the tide and winning is because they ended up having the cooler show. For the huge amounts of new, casual fans, that were still watching every week and even going to shows, it wasn't about workrate or sensical storylines, it was about who had the cooler show with the can't-miss moments.
WCW's problem after a while was that WWF had the cooler show with the bigger moments. To all the new wrestling fans, particularly kids, tuning in in 98-99 WCW needed as few stale, boring gimmicks as possible. Some US vs Canada sh1t or a story where he's crusading against the NWO because he lost a fake match FOR REAL in WWF was not the answer to WCW's problems.
Bret got a pretty big push as a heel in the 2nd half of 98. He was positioned as probably the #2 heel at the time. He did good with his heel mic work, but the matches weren't good. He had a big program with DDP at DDP's hottest, and the matches weren't good. He had a big match with Sting, and it wasn't good. He wrestled Booker T on PPV, and it didn't suck but wasnt nearly as good as the matches Booker just had with Benoit a few weeks earlier.
Bret stans run with this "international" thing all the time when faced with admitting that he's not a real top tier star and more an AJ Styles/Benoit type guy that they overpushed for a few years. Summerslam 92 isn't proof Bret is some huge draw, AEW with MJF vs Adam Cole as the main event just did SS 92 numbers in Wembley. UK has a wrestling audience and don't get big shows often, and show up when they do.
The Bret vs Austin feud took Austin to the another level, yes. The Ken Shamrock vs Rock feud also elevated Rock and got him more over. That doesn't mean Ken Shamrock is a huge draw.
WCW's problem after a while was that WWF had the cooler show with the bigger moments. To all the new wrestling fans, particularly kids, tuning in in 98-99 WCW needed as few stale, boring gimmicks as possible. Some US vs Canada sh1t or a story where he's crusading against the NWO because he lost a fake match FOR REAL in WWF was not the answer to WCW's problems.
Bret got a pretty big push as a heel in the 2nd half of 98. He was positioned as probably the #2 heel at the time. He did good with his heel mic work, but the matches weren't good. He had a big program with DDP at DDP's hottest, and the matches weren't good. He had a big match with Sting, and it wasn't good. He wrestled Booker T on PPV, and it didn't suck but wasnt nearly as good as the matches Booker just had with Benoit a few weeks earlier.
Bret stans run with this "international" thing all the time when faced with admitting that he's not a real top tier star and more an AJ Styles/Benoit type guy that they overpushed for a few years. Summerslam 92 isn't proof Bret is some huge draw, AEW with MJF vs Adam Cole as the main event just did SS 92 numbers in Wembley. UK has a wrestling audience and don't get big shows often, and show up when they do.
The Bret vs Austin feud took Austin to the another level, yes. The Ken Shamrock vs Rock feud also elevated Rock and got him more over. That doesn't mean Ken Shamrock is a huge draw.
Cattle Mutilation
Superstar
Problem with crash TV is that no matter how well it's written, it's going to die in prime time because it's basically a combination of soap opera and Jerry Springer. Trash, trash, trash.
fukking dumbass Russo never understood that and that's why the advertisers were leaving in droves.
The demographics it appeals quite heavily to is the lower class and stay at home moms. That isn't attractive to advertisers, and networks don't want to waste their prime time TV slots on stuff that generates low advertising dollars.
That's why trash TV like soap operas and stuff like Jerry Springer is always daytime TV. Advertising slots are considerably cheaper during the daytime and the people who have the most disposable income that the advertisers want to target are likely going to be at work during the day.
So basically Bischoff and Russo both admitted that they had no fukking clue what to do with creative and you got people still listening to these buffoons to this day
They were one trick ponies and when they exhausted their one idea..... they just doubled down on fukking stupidity
Bischoff definitely didn't say that. If people can call Vince McMahon smart because he listened to Russo's many ideas and picked/tweaked the good ones, then Bischoff is also smart for going live, bringing in the luchadores and Benoit/Malenko in the midcard, changing Sting's character, pushing Goldberg, etc. Like Vince, he was pitched most of this stuff and didn't come up with it himself, but it's ultimately him who puts it out on TV and after no shortage of other people telling him why it's a bad idea.
Lurk Angle
All Star
Nope not at all
That style is basically an ECW mixed with Jerry Springer style that will run advertisers off your product quickly
It's the reason why ECW never got on TV back in the day when they had the chance and why Vince had started to tune it down over thr years
threattonature
Veteran
Y'all blaming Crash TV style instead of the other factors. Wrestling has never been big on attracting advertisers even at their most PG. Their ad rates have always been lower for the ratings they pulled in simply due to the wrestling fan stereotype.
Also CrashTV ain't to blame for the advertisers running away. It was all the raunchiness and the language being used and the nature of the storylines. None of that has shyt to do with CrashTV style.
Cattle Mutilation
Superstar
Those were the hallmarks of Crash TV
HipHopStan
Top 113 Poster
I wouldn’t say David Arquette’s run was a total waste. He donated his entire salary to the families of Owen Hart and Brian Pillman.
Saysumthinfunnymike
VOTE!!!
He was a draw in Canada, the UK and the rest of Europe and even in the U.S. the events he headlined did better than anything else in WWF until 1998. The Royal Rumble in '93 was a sellout crowd and had a solid buyrate. WrestleMania in '94 was a sellout crowd and had a good buyrate. Wembley was almost all on the back of Bret, the reason why there aren't many big shows there is because they hadn't had a draw internationally in years until a couple years ago. Also, MJF vs. Cole wasn't announced until after all the tickets were sold basically. That attendance is credited to the AEW brand more than any one person.