Who has a better discography: Nas or Kendrick

[904]

I don't wanna get into this Nas vs. Kendrick thang, specifically, but the rap game isn't something like hoops. New rappers don't just surpass rappers from the past like that as by having a deeper skill set, accolades/accomplishments and ability.

Rap doesn't have things like shooting percentages or scaling of dificulty of shots to determine who's a better scorer.

Because rap is entirely subjective and you have to account for originality, cultural impact and the essence as it is as an artform, greats don't just get surpassed like that.

I agree that they're not factual stats to really go off of, it's all preference based..

But I can say that song writing in rap has evolved and continues to evolve.. I'm of the opinion that's it's gotten better in a sense..

There was a leap in lyricism from The Message to Follow The Leader

Another leap in Follow The Leader to Nas Memory Lane

Then a Lupe comes a long and pushes lyricism to it's absolute max in a sense, almost too far imo

Kendrick is taking song/album crafting to another level.. The ad-libs, voice inflections, pre hooks, bridges, backgrounds, are all well placed.. He's a far cry from 3 16s and a hook..

But that's kinda besides the point lol

Yes rap is subjective and the greats don't necessarily get passed, they just get new neighbors..

But for argument's sake, the culture, like many other cultures(including the NBA) has a cross generational respect issue. Old doesn't like change, new doesn't respect old..

Like I said, Damn's a decent album, it's cool...but the second best rap album of all time?

I know it won a Pulitzer and all that but that feels like a hindsight award from white liberals because they didn't give it to TPAB, the more important album

Better than GKMC and TPAB? I can't agree at all

Personally the only GREAT songs on it are DNA, Feel, Fear and Duckworth

Other songs on it are cool. Yah, Loyalty, Love...cool vibes...but not much more. Personally I like when Kendrick goes conceptual/introspective. So the balancing of commerciality is a bit overhyped. Same shyt Nas was criticized for because heads were a lot more nitpicky in the 90's but in reality is Kendrick's joint with Rihanna any better than Nas song with Aaliyah? Not really.

Also since we're talking consensus it's consensus that Stankonia is not better than Outkast's first three albums even if it was most commercially successful

Loyalty vs You Won't See Me Tonight???

That's not even a fair fight in my eyes lol that shyt ain't even close.. Nas rarely hit when it came to girl records, just wasn't his thing

 

[Budda]

acclaim = more than just pitchfork and rolling stone.
Also what makes you think they don't understand soul and feeling? just because you disagree with them doesn't mean they don't understand.

Just the way they critique certain rap albums I think Nas is actually an example of this, he hasn’t ever been critically acclaimed, IWW for example was panned in certain circles, Lost Tapes should be heralded at the top of some the greatest rap collections ever.

 

[BK The Great]

Please stop these threads. Nas’ catalog is way too much extensive. Kendrick’s catalog is cool but let’s not overdo it now.

 

[CP3.]

Kendrick has higher highs, and no lows. Tpab pretty much better than anything in nas catalog.

TPAB is not better than Illmatic. Shut the hell up. You embarrass the whole forum when you say this shyt.

 

[Hum Alistair]

What do you mean by critic proof musically? Musically GKMC is better than Mr Morale Damn and GNX for me.

Maybe you prefer it, but quality wise Morale and DAMN are musically much better.

A critic proof album, from a musical standpoint, is an album that can't br criticized because of how perfect the musical composition is. Like there is no mistep, no note that shouldn't be there, no objectively bad harmony, form, rhythm, key, polyrhythm, scale,... it's an album that a professional musician wouldn't be able to criticize.
Gkmc is one of if not the only kendrick albums that sound like it was made by 2 people, Kendrick the rapper and X the beat maker. With his other albums, he had a shytload of musicians involved in the process and that shyt really paid off. Thats also why gkmc is the only kendrick album that isn't praised for its music, but only for the rapping and concept (and they're great, I agree with that).

 

[ThirdAct]

Loyalty vs You Won't See Me Tonight???

That's not even a fair fight in my eyes lol that shyt ain't even close.. Nas rarely hit when it came to girl records, just wasn't his thing

But what makes Loyalty that much better? Commercial girl records aren't really Kendrick's thing either, his best songs have always been the more conceptual stuff. Both songs are these real intellectual rappers going for a more commercial stab with a popular r&b singer. My point is it's just because Nas came up in a much more critical era where everything had to be hard and real. If Kendrick started in the 90's guaranteed he woulda got criticized for Loyalty.

 

[Arcavian]

Nas, easily

 

[Hum Alistair]

Just the way they critique certain rap albums I think Nas is actually an example of this, he hasn’t ever been critically acclaimed, IWW for example was panned in certain circles, Lost Tapes should be heralded at the top of some the greatest rap collections ever.

Illmatic was critically acclaimed, it's also the reason why it became a classic. That's also why Jay z tried to influence publications and made them revisit Reasonable Doubt. Cuz RD was only considered as a good or very good album with a lot of 7/10. It only became a classic after publications decided to change their score.

Never understood why people claimed RD was always an acclaimed album lol. Jay managed to change people's mind years later once he got enough influence to make critics change their reviews.
It became harder for albums to become classics once Metacritic was created, as it is now impossible to change a review like that.

 

[904]

But what makes Loyalty that much better? Commercial girl records aren't really Kendrick's thing either, his best songs have always been the more conceptual stuff. Both songs are these real intellectual rappers going for a more commercial stab with a popular r&b singer. My point is it's just because Nas came up in a much more critical era where everything had to be hard and real. If Kendrick started in the 90's guaranteed he woulda got criticized for Loyalty.

We'll disagree there..

Kendrick chick records from poetic justice to Luther have always been top notch and never sounded forced to me

Where as often in the past nikkas was just making a chick record because they needed one and it sounded like it..

And I'd say every rapper back then had to make a girl record, it's a thing.. Some were just better at it than others

 

[Illmagic]

I just checked and DAMN was the consensus AOTY by end year lists in 2017, and won by an even bigger margin than Tpab in 2015. If we judge it by those standards, DAMN is also the best album of that year, by a large margin.
Melodrama came at 2, but it wasn't even a close fight

Best of 2017: Music Critic Top Ten Lists

Over the next month, we'll be collecting year-end top 10 album lists from over 200 music critics, publications, record stores, and other sources. Find individual lists and this year's cumulative rankings inside.

web.archive.org

from 210 individual publications

Don't get it wrong man, damn's respect comes from the fact it was undeniable musically. shyt got ranked #1 even by rock and reggae critics, claiming it featured even better rock, pop and rnb elements than any rock, pop & rnb album released that year.

Melodrama is still a much much better album.





Better sonically, better produced, better written then whatever you wanna talk about on DAMN. That album has one skip. DAMN has many

 

[Osmosis]

Even if I was to reduce kendrick's catalog to his worst project to date, GKMC, I'd still go with Kendrick.

Coli gonna let bots get this type shyt off

 

[Budda]

I agree that they're not factual stats to really go off of, it's all preference based..

But I can say that song writing in rap has evolved and continues to evolve.. I'm of the opinion that's it's gotten better in a sense..

There was a leap in lyricism from The Message to Follow The Leader

Another leap in Follow The Leader to Nas Memory Lane

Then a Lupe comes a long and pushes lyricism to it's absolute max in a sense, almost too far imo

Kendrick is taking song/album crafting to another level.. The ad-libs, voice inflections, pre hooks, bridges, backgrounds, are all well placed.. He's a far cry from 3 16s and a hook..

But that's kinda besides the point lol

Yes rap is subjective and the greats don't necessarily get passed, they just get new neighbors..

But for argument's sake, the culture, like many other cultures(including the NBA) has a cross generational respect issue. Old doesn't like change, new doesn't respect old..

Loyalty vs You Won't See Me Tonight???

That's not even a fair fight in my eyes lol that shyt ain't even close.. Nas rarely hit when it came to girl records, just wasn't his thing

If I Ruled the World is better than Loyalty, Nas girl records are good in retrospect, he was just doing at a time where purists would not allow him to take risks, some of the same purists who are of the lineage of people who praise Kendrick for taking the same risks.

You won’t see me tonight
Rule
If i Ruled The World
Cherry Wine
You wouldn’t understand
Nas has a bunch of good songs with Rnb female singers, that’s his lane.

There’s nothing complex about ‘Humble’
for example.

 

[Budda]

Maybe you prefer it, but quality wise Morale and DAMN are musically much better.

A critic proof album, from a musical standpoint, is an album that can't br criticized because of how perfect the musical composition is. Like there is no mistep, no note that shouldn't be there, no objectively bad harmony, form, rhythm, key, polyrhythm, scale,... it's an album that a professional musician wouldn't be able to criticize.
Gkmc is one of if not the only kendrick albums that sound like it was made by 2 people, Kendrick the rapper and X the beat maker. With his other albums, he had a shytload of musicians involved in the process and that shyt really paid off. Thats also why gkmc is the only kendrick album that isn't praised for its music, but only for the rapping and concept (and they're great, I agree with that).

What mis steps are there in GKMC, and from a musical standpoint some of the most heralded Pop Artists of the 20th Century were very imperfect, I can think of one notable group for example pretty much of the top of my head.

Bear in mind Kendrick doesn’t play any instruments, he doesn’t have a great singing voice, his genius is surrounding himself with the right people and creating good hooks and lyrics like nearly every other rapper.

 

[((ReFleXioN)) EteRNaL]

You got a group of people that would put this




Over this



Because one has a U2 feature and bouncy beat and hipster cacs would show favor to it, that for me I just can understand I listen to all black music I don’t need to play hipster games when the soul is within me.

I respect rap as it’s own genre, Lost Tapes has songs better than a lot of songs on Damn, I don’t ever need to hear Humble again for example but I will always go back to Doo Rags, the best the nostalgia encapsulates the black experience way more, and people a lot of critics for the likes of Pitchfork and Rolling Stone simply don’t understand soul and feeling.

You got a group of people who will put





Over





Because they want nas's dikk down their throat and think his catalog nothing short of perfect. Even when plenty of his shyt is undeniably terrible.

I would take Feel over the entirety of Life is Good and I am. Talking about feeling. That's really not a debate you wanna have. As if a shyt load of nas's early material didn't revolve around him being a wannabe mafia member. Nas is my GOAT but let's be serious. He contradicted himself too many times to count. While Kendrick has always remained consistent with his message from day 1. Stop the killing. Stop the hate. Put god first and master your mind.


Come on now

 

[Gifted one]

Both legends, putting Kendrick over Nas is very debatable where one can put Kendrick discography over Nas. He's been on a great run and is only getting better as he approaches his 40s. I'm saying this as someone who believes Nas is the GOAT.